Dtwclipper From United States, joined Oct 2003, 6578 posts, RR: 30 Posted (11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3752 times:
Metro growth vision cloudy
Light rail isn't needed, says Northwest exec
November 6, 2007
BY MARGARITA BAUZA
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
With the number of passengers at Metro Airport expected to grow 67% within the next 20 years, the Wayne County Airport Authority says it needs a new runway, light-rail system and expanded terminals to handle the increased traffic.
Officials from the airport authority outlined the projected long-range development plan during a meeting with the Free Press last week.
Metro Airport's largest carrier says some components of the plan -- particularly the rail system -- are a waste of money.
The light-rail system would connect the McNamara Terminal with the new North Terminal, which is to open in fall 2008.
"We don't believe there is ridership for it," said Andrea Fischer Newman, Northwest's vice president of government affairs. "Money raised is better used for runways, taxiways or terminals, which benefit the largest number of passengers."
NwAflyer07 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3695 times:
Pretty much anyone flying into DTW on NW is gonna end up going somplace else on NW. Even if there was a light-rail system they wouldnt have too many people wanting to go through all that just to save a few bucks and take different airlines. But why is the traffic expected to grow that much? Maybe Delta's gonna move in?? haha jk jk But in all seriousness are they predicting a revival of Detroit as a city itself?
Flyinryan99 From United States, joined Feb 2001, 1240 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3653 times:
Maybe the airport board should talk to Toledo city council members. Every once in a while the idea of "light rail" connecting downtown Toledo to Metro Airport gets kicked around. With gas prices continuing to climb and lack of flight options out of TOL, I am kind of favoring that. I wouldn't mind driving 10 minutes to catch a train up to DTW to fly out. Just my humble opinion.
United787 From United States, joined May 2005, 1117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3601 times:
It sounds like they are only talking about a light-rail system that connects the terminals.
Did you really think that Motor City would think of building a real public transportation link from the airport to downtown or anywhere else?
Don't forget, it is GM that destroyed the public transportation system (street cars) in this country, including the one in Detroit. Ironically, downtown Detroit now has the most depressed downtown in the country, serves them right, they created their own nightmere.
Even if they did build a light-rail to downtown, there is hardly anyone down there to use it. Do you really think all of the people working in the auto industry would use a rail line?
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4393 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3566 times:
Quoting United787 (Reply 4): Even if they did build a light-rail to downtown, there is hardly anyone down there to use it. Do you really think all of the people working in the auto industry would use a rail line?
The problem is that Metro Detroit business centers & communities are all very dispersed and a light rail system would be difficult to effectively connect high-traffic corridors. There is so much suburb-to-suburb commuting, to far-flung areas that that people would still face substancial commutes to/from the trains.
NW is right that a terminal-to-terminal train would be a waste at this point when a shuttle bus can handle the low demand as it is right now.
I'm interested to see where they are getting that 67% growth rate number from.
Gigneil From United States, joined Nov 2002, 13449 posts, RR: 81 Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3381 times:
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 2): If the number of passengers increases at that rate then provision will need to be made for getting them to/from the airport.
Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 3): Every once in a while the idea of "light rail" connecting downtown Toledo to Metro Airport gets kicked around.
Quoting United787 (Reply 4): It sounds like they are only talking about a light-rail system that connects the terminals.
United787 is correct, the light rail is to connect the terminals. If Northwest doesn't see a need for it, it must not exist - they would have visibility into most interline connecting passengers, those that have at least bought it on one record.
I would imagine that whatever existing service they have - is it a bus? - is probably sufficient.
Helvknight From Switzerland, joined Aug 2006, 875 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3354 times:
Isn't there talk of commuter rail from Ann Arbor to Detroit with the line going close to DTW?
A link from a station on the rail line at the edge of the airport to Macnamara and North then to the rental cars and long term parking ala the EWR monorail might work.
Also an easy connection between Macnamara (NW and other Skyteam) and North (non-Skyteam such as *A and WN) is hardly going to be in NW's best interests.
Dtwclipper From United States, joined Oct 2003, 6578 posts, RR: 30 Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3344 times:
Quoting Helvknight (Reply 7): Isn't there talk of commuter rail from Ann Arbor to Detroit with the line going close to DTW?
There is no rail service to DTW.
There is a line that goes from Detroit to Chicago that stops in Dearborn and Ann Arbor along the way, but that is not near DTW.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
Helvknight From Switzerland, joined Aug 2006, 875 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8): There is no rail service to DTW.
There is a line that goes from Detroit to Chicago that stops in Dearborn and Ann Arbor along the way, but that is not near DTW.
ContnlEliteCMH From United States, joined Mar 2005, 1281 posts, RR: 40 Reply 11, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3282 times:
Quoting United787 (Reply 4): Don't forget, it is GM that destroyed the public transportation system (street cars) in this country, including the one in Detroit. Ironically, downtown Detroit now has the most depressed downtown in the country, serves them right, they created their own nightmere.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
What could *possibly* be the relevance of this point to the topic at hand? Since GM killed off light rail, there won't be a light rail connecting terminals at DTW -- which is an AIRPORT, not a road.
The conspiracy to which you refer ended (as in, activity stopped) in 1950. That's 57 years ago. Nothing like living in the past, no?
No wonder rail freaks have no credibility. Pulling out stuff like this is case-in-point.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
I would like to know where the got the prediction of 67% growth in the future? If NW were to expand, I could see the need to move some of the other SkyTeam members currently using McNamara to the new Smith. In that case, there would be a need for a fast link between terminals.
Is NW basically saying they will never expand DTW to the point where they will outgrow McNamara?
Apodino From United States, joined Apr 2005, 1710 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3225 times:
As someone who often flies through DTW and does the terminal to terminal shuffle, I hope that this does happen. I also heard that this would be an airside connection, meaning you can transfer between McNamarra and North without having to reclear TSA (Which is very crowded as it is now in the Smith terminal). Here is the other thing that NW forgets about. In the case of irregular operations (which are regular operations these days), if you have to reaccomodate passengers, often times this happens on other airlines. I think its good customer service for these people to go catch their flight without having to do the TSA thing again.
The reason I travel through DTW and have to do the terminal shuffle is because ATW does not have USAirways service, and I often jumpseat on either Pinnacle or Mesaba to DTW in order to get to a US or ZW flight. The one bad thing is that they have an awesome shuttle driver, who is so well liked that people who fly NW often park in the Smith terminal just to ride the shuttle bus with her.
NASCARAirforce From United States, joined Feb 2005, 1579 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3199 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6): I would imagine that whatever existing service they have - is it a bus? - is probably sufficient.
They have shuttle busses that run back and forth between the Mac and the Smith, most of the riders are airport employees - such as skycaps, TSA etc that work out of both terminals.
Quoting Helvknight (Reply 7): Isn't there talk of commuter rail from Ann Arbor to Detroit with the line going close to DTW?
The rail line that goes from Ann Arbor to Detroit is the old Conrail Line that also Amtrak uses, it passes about 4-5 miles north of DTW in Wayne, Inkster, Dearborn etc. There is a rail line that is on DTW's north perimeter, but that goes well south of Ann Arbor and is used by Norfolk and Southern.
I attended one of those meetings last fall. It was put on by Jacobsen Daniels and HTNB I believe - planners for the airport. There was talk about adding the fifth parallel runway to the east of the other runways, which would close Middlebelt Rd, or cross it - and go right thru a neighborhood along Eureka Rd. They also talked about extending the McNamara terminal to the north and possibly closing Runway 9L/27R - don't think that would work though
Better to build an additional terminal between 4L/22R and 4R/22L like the Mac and either have road access or a subway that travels between the Mac and new terminal.
Flyinryan99 From United States, joined Feb 2001, 1240 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3131 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6): United787 is correct, the light rail is to connect the terminals. If Northwest doesn't see a need for it, it must not exist - they would have visibility into most interline connecting passengers, those that have at least bought it on one record.
I would imagine that whatever existing service they have - is it a bus? - is probably sufficient.
I understand it would be connecting the two terminals. I was just saying if there were to be a light rail between downtown Toledo and Metro, it would need to connect both terminals so it could be used as a dual purpose if planned right.
I agree with above posters 67% increase? What do they know we don't? Are they planning on having TOL, FNT, and Windsor closed to passenger traffic?
TOLtommy From United States, joined Dec 2003, 2181 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3050 times:
Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 3): I wouldn't mind driving 10 minutes to catch a train up to DTW to fly out.
Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter): With the number of passengers at Metro Airport expected to grow 67% within the next 20 years, the Wayne County Airport Authority says it needs a new runway, light-rail system and expanded terminals to handle the increased traffic.
FlyinRyan.... I expected better out of you.....
Wouldn't TOL be able to reduce some of the possible congestion? Geez, NW could at least drop in a MSP-TOL flight or two. Don't jump on the train! Of course, it would have to stop in Bedford, Luna Pier, Monroe, etc..... At that point every one is back in the car, racing up 75.
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
United787 is correct, the light rail is to connect the terminals. If Northwest doesn't see a need for it, it must not exist
OTOH, if NW doesn't see a need for it, they might see that a need does exist. Wouldn't want to make it any easier to change carriers at DTW, right?
DCA-ROCguy From United States, joined Apr 2000, 3655 posts, RR: 45 Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2974 times:
From the information given in the article and the discussion, I'd side with Northwest on this one. Keeping airport costs manageable is absolutely vital. Aren't all SkyTeam carriers at the McNamara now? If and when the MacNamara needs to be expanded beyond what its space footprint can handle, the airport can consider options. But why build a costly interterminal rail system now?
Apodino, the circumstances you mention could IMO be covered by airside shuttle buses. I don't think one can generalize from your experience as an aviation-employee jumpseater to saying the traveling public needs costly interterminal rail to a terminal NW's alliance doesn't use. Also, reaccomodations are a small enough percentage of pax as to not require a rail infrastructure either.
67 percent is probably a reasonable growth estimate over 20 years; DTW is well located in the country, has one of the best runway layouts in the country, and a big local population base (however weak its economy). It won't go the way of PIT and STL. It's reasonable to think DTW will remain a hub whatever happens in the industry. But even so, it's not clear to me why the non-SkyTeam North Terminal would need to be linked to the MacNamara by costly rail.
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