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Boeing Completes Firm Config Of 747-8I  
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17016 times:

Well so much for the "news" that the 747-8I is behind schedule as some people on this foru mare hoping for:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...s/prnewswire/AQTU09706112007-1.htm
Fair Use Excerpt:
EVERETT, Wash., Nov. 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing Company has completed firm configuration of the 747-8 Intercontinental. This milestone marks the completion of the major trade studies needed to finalize the airplane's performance and interior features.

"We have designed the 747-8 Intercontinental to be the ideal airplane for serving the 400- to 500-seat market between the 777 and the A380," said Michael Teal, deputy chief project engineer for the 747 program. "The airplane will provide airlines significantly lower operating costs, as well as improved economics and environmental performance compared to the 747-400. It also will feature a new interior that will increase passenger appeal and create a strong and very favorable first impression."

Many of the trade studies for the 747-8 Intercontinental focused on the airplane's interior. The airplane will incorporate interior features from the 787 Dreamliner, including a new curved, upswept architecture that will give passengers a greater feeling of space and comfort, while adding more room for personal belongings. The enhanced interior architecture is accentuated by new lighting technology that creates a perception of airy brightness and provides smooth lighting transitions to offer a more restful environment.

The 747-8 also will integrate features from the 777, including windows that equal those on the 777 (15.3 inches/38.8 centimeters tall and 10.76 inches/27.3 centimeters wide), and are larger than those on the 747-400.

"The 747 family's unique interior and structural design have provided passengers with memorable flying experiences for decades," said Doug Ackerman, engineering interior team leader for the 747-8. "With the newly applied 787 features, passengers will know they are on a brand new airplane the moment they step on board, and enjoy a more relaxing flying experience."

As for the airplane's performance, the 747-8 Intercontinental will be stretched 5.6m (18.3ft) from the 747-400 to provide 467 seats in a three-class configuration and approximately 14,815-km (8,000-nmi) in range. It will provide nearly equivalent trip costs to those on the 747-400 and 10 percent lower seat-mile costs, plus 28 percent greater cargo volume. The 747-8 Intercontinental also will be 16 percent more fuel efficient and 30 percent quieter than its predecessor.

With firm configuration complete, Boeing and its suppliers can begin detailed design of parts, assemblies and other systems for the 747-8 Intercontinental. The detailed designs will then be released to Boeing suppliers and factories to begin production of the airplane.

"This milestone is a tribute to the efforts of the 747-8 team, our customers and suppliers," said Teal. "Now our team and partners must concentrate on completing the detailed designs needed to begin production and deliver the airplane on schedule in late 2010."

The 747-8 program, which includes the 747-8 Intercontinental and the 747-8 Freighter, was launched in November 2005 by Cargolux Airlines and Nippon Cargo Airlines. Lufthansa was the first airline to order the 747-8 Intercontinental in December 2006.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16952 times:

She is and will always be the ONLY Queen of the skies!  Wink

Way to go Boeing! I can't wait to see the 748I in LH colors.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16961 times:

Well, they are completely firm on the 748F length for the 748I and the 8000nm range even though it doesn't suit EK's specs for overloaded flights to LAX.

Hmmm... seems like Tim Clark doesn't unlimited "power" and influence after all. I always laugh when people take EK's blustering so seriously. They are one airline with a very vocal management, with huge expansion plans, but there's no assurance they will succeed, at least to the level where they will take all the planes they are discussing.

Building products to the specs of one expanding company at the expense of an entire mature industry is not a smart business decision. At least not unless that company is willing to buy a huge portion of your product. If many companies were asking for an 8500nm shorter 748 that's one thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case, as those 500nm between 8000-8500nm have limited value to most other carriers around the world...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16875 times:

So just to confirm? Boeing have essentially paid lip service to EK's requests and have gone with the original plans?


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16879 times:

That will be one good looking bird when she takes to the skies. Indeed, the true "Queen of the Skies".

And at 249 feet long, she'll be 10ft. longer than the A380.  Wink


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16854 times:

Boeing can come back and offer EK the shorter version if they felt that their enough of a market for that airplane. They do have an existing contract with LH that they have to honor with the longer version of the 748I.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16733 times:

The following is interesting: In that press statement, they don't compare it to the A380 any more, unlike in previous press releases. IMO this just shows the aircraft complement each other, rather than compete in the same market as many people still think.

Quoting Boeing:
"We have designed the 747-8 Intercontinental to be the ideal airplane for serving the 400- to 500-seat market between the 777 and the A380"



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16737 times:
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Good luck to Boeing. I don't expect them to win many, if any, RFP's against the A380-800, but then again, not every RFP may be against the A380-800.

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 3):
So just to confirm? Boeing have essentially paid lip service to EK's requests and have gone with the original plans?

I would not put it quite so...bluntly...myself, since it could be said that it does not appear that EK was willing to commit to an order sufficient enough to justify either building it as a sub-variant of the "baseline" 747-8I or to convince Boeing to build it instead of the "baseline" 747-8I and compensate LH (or even risk losing the deal all-together).


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16713 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
The following is interesting: In that press statement, they don't compare it to the A380 any more, unlike in previous press releases. IMO this just shows the aircraft complement each other, rather than compete in the same market as many people still think.

They never compared it to the a380. Boeing has always stated that it was sizing the -8I to be between the 77W and hte A380. It's only people on a.net that compared the 748I with the A380.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineAtnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16574 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Well so much for the "news" that the 747-8I is behind schedule as some people on this foru mare hoping for

Although a great milestone, the article doesn't say anything about schedule, so it would be wise for you to not jump of joy just yet! Let's hope the B748I is not late, but I have still my doubts on that. With what is said in the article, the B748I could very well be still late as rumors go around, for the text doesn't say anything on that regard.

Something that I notice about this article is that Boeing is finally not comparing the B748 to the A380 for their numbers. Here they clearly are putting the B748I between the 777 and A380, which when they first advertised, was not so. Now they compare their numbers to their own B744. So I think Boeing has realized that the A380 is truly in a league of its own and that maybe the A380 is giving a better performance above specs, thus they don't have anything that can compete with it, although at the end, both the A380 and B748I are VLA.

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 1):
She is and will always be the ONLY Queen of the skies!

It use to be funny to see people holding on to the old queen, now is just plain childish! Give it up, the B747 is no longer the queen, like it or not!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Well, they are completely firm on the 748F length for the 748I and the 8000nm range even though it doesn't suit EK's specs for overloaded flights to LAX.

I seriously doubt EK will order the B748I, as it does not meet their needs.... remember that Mr. Clark said that they will not order anything unless Boeing or Airbus give them what they want.... With this news, the idea of seeing B748Is along with A380s in EK's livery seem more distant.
The question that one should ask, will any other airline besides LH go for the B748I having A380s in their fleet?

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8):
They never compared it to the a380. Boeing has always stated that it was sizing the -8I to be between the 77W and hte A380. It's only people on a.net that compared the 748I with the A380.

I think your love for Boeing blinds you too much... Boeing initially put he B748I against the A380 and their numbers where against the A380.. That they no longer do that is a different story, and I'm pretty sure why...



B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16507 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
I seriously doubt EK will order the B748I, as it does not meet their needs.... remember that Mr. Clark said that they will not order anything unless Boeing or Airbus give them what they want....

Yes, I know. That's the whole point.

EK is very vocal. They stomp their feet and say "I want this and I want that" and yet the companies go along their merry way anyway. Boeing has not changed the 748 for EK nor have they rushed forward with the 787-10 to please them. Airbus has not altered the A380 nor launched the A380-900, nor increased the range of the A350-1000 despite the wishes of EK.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12806 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16477 times:
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Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8):
They never compared it to the a380.

Not completely true. They have, for quite a long time, claimed the 748i was more efficient than the A380. They no longer seem to be making that claim in this release. Airbus did make quite a fuss some time back because Boeing was using very pessimistic A380 numbers.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/747-8_background.html

Quote:
The 747-8 Intercontinental is more than 10 percent lighter per seat than the A380, and consumes 10 percent less fuel per passenger. That translates into a trip-cost reduction of 19 percent and a seat-mile cost reduction of more than 3 percent compared to the A380.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16472 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
Boeing initially put he B748I against the A380 and their numbers where against the A380.. That they no longer do that is a different story

 checkmark  Spot on!



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16389 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
As for the airplane's performance, the 747-8 Intercontinental will be stretched 5.6m (18.3ft) from the 747-400 to provide 467 seats in a three-class configuration and approximately 14,815-km (8,000-nmi) in range. It will provide nearly equivalent trip costs to those on the 747-400 and 10 percent lower seat-mile costs, plus 28 percent greater cargo volume. The 747-8 Intercontinental also will be 16 percent more fuel efficient and 30 percent quieter than its predecessor.

There has been talk of AI looking at ordering 10-12 A380s; I wonder if 747-8 will also be considered.

AI is BOM/DEL centric, and all of east coast NA cities are under 7,000 nm from BOM/DEL, which makes it possible to fly these routes non-stop year round without payload penalty.


User currently onlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16388 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 1):
She is and will always be the ONLY Queen of the skies!

It use to be funny to see people holding on to the old queen, now is just plain childish! Give it up, the B747 is no longer the queen, like it or not!

Yes she is, the Queen just got replaced by a King, that's all.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16367 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
They are one airline with a very vocal management, with huge expansion plans, but there's no assurance they will succeed, at least to the level where they will take all the planes they are discussing.

They are also the only airline that appear to be seriously considering buying it. Who have we left that are serious about it?

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8):
They never compared it to the a380. Boeing has always stated that it was sizing the -8I to be between the 77W and hte A380. It's only people on a.net that compared the 748I with the A380.



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 11):
Airbus did make quite a fuss some time back because Boeing was using very pessimistic A380 numbers.

And very optomistic 747-8i ones.


User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16341 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 14):
Yes she is, the Queen just got replaced by a King, that's all.

Nah, the Queen is the Queen. That other big jet should be known as Moby.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5477 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16271 times:

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 16):

Every news story I've heard in the past number of years has labelled the 380, "Super Jumbo". I'm betting that's the name the public will adopt and the one that will stick.



What the...?
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16098 times:
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If we must give the A380 a royal title, I respectfully submit "Empress" for consideration.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):
Every news story I've heard in the past number of years has labeled the 380, "Super Jumbo". I'm betting that's the name the public will adopt and the one that will stick.

Makes sense. Folks call the 747 "Jumbo" so calling the A380 "Super Jumbo" would not be untoward.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16032 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):
I'm betting that's the name the public will adopt and the one that will stick.

It already has stuck.


User currently offlineKlkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15840 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
It use to be funny to see people holding on to the old queen, now is just plain childish! Give it up, the B747 is no longer the queen, like it or not!

The term 'queen' doesn't describe it's size. It's more about it's elegant design. The A380 is anything but elegant (more like a fat drag queen in comparison). The 747 will remain the queen because it retains it's elegant design.

Note: I'm only talking about aesthetics which are subjecive.


User currently onlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15754 times:

Quoting Klkla (Reply 20):
The term 'queen' doesn't describe it's size. It's more about it's elegant design. The A380 is anything but elegant (more like a fat drag queen in comparison). The 747 will remain the queen because it retains it's elegant design.

Note: I'm only talking about aesthetics which are subjecive.

That's why I suggested "the King". Kings are usually fatter and uglier.  mischievous 



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineFlyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15690 times:

Quoting Klkla (Reply 20):

Note: I'm only talking about aesthetics which are subjecive.

Indeed. I find the 747 to be one of the ugliest airliners there is if you look her directly from front. For example the plane in the airliners.net logo looks horrible - like someone had squashed her cheeks from both left and right.

However, airliners are not about aesthetics.

I would think that Boeing has had the performance characteristics firmed up already a while ago. LH certainly doesn't buy planes at random. They were offered and they bought a certain plane and that's the plane Boeing describes above. I don't see how they could have come up with anything else than that.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15687 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
It use to be funny to see people holding on to the old queen, now is just plain childish! Give it up, the B747 is no longer the queen, like it or not!

...telling people to "stop" and then giving your own opinion is a bit hypocritical don't you think?

Quoting Klkla (Reply 20):

The term 'queen' doesn't describe it's size. It's more about it's elegant design.

 checkmark 

Quoting Klkla (Reply 20):
(more like a fat drag queen in comparison).

 rotfl 

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
Folks call the 747 "Jumbo" so calling the A380 "Super Jumbo" would not be untoward.

..sounds good to me... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAtnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15538 times:

Quoting Klkla (Reply 20):
The term 'queen' doesn't describe it's size. It's more about it's elegant design. The A380 is anything but elegant (more like a fat drag queen in comparison). The 747 will remain the queen because it retains it's elegant design.

Note: I'm only talking about aesthetics which are subjecive.

If you say that aesthetics are subjective, why state your opinion as some sort of fact? That is real hypocritical...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):
...telling people to "stop" and then giving your own opinion is a bit hypocritical don't you think?

My opinion? I guess you missed what SQ's Mr. Chew said when he took delivery of the first A380... But it is your opinion and that of a.netters that count, right? After all, what people like you call it is more important than that of airlines that have actually bought the plane... yeah, it is just my opinion....
Please, grow out of it... You will see that BA, LH, AF, EK and the rest of airlines who buy it, will also call their ship "queen" (especially BA) it's just a matter of time.... so give it up would you?



B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
25 Gigneil : That's sorta stupid, don't you think? They're the largest buyer of both airframers' flagship products. I would think people at both will lose sleep o
26 ERAUgrad02 : I guess per the Boeing news release that they didnt gain 200nm to this design. But maybe they'll notice gains after the first bird starts testing.
27 Post contains images GECMD11 : also hoping LH cargo will jump on the 748F order list soon
28 Post contains images Flysherwood : EK has no 744's and has yet to buy the 748. So NO, they are not the largest buyer of Boeing's flagship product. Airbus on the other hand... Oh, and t
29 Stitch : Oddly enough, that is the only angle I find aesthetically pleasing for the A380 because then her huge wings are what draws the eyes and not her ungai
30 Pnwtraveler : I would love to see some of you people car shopping. You would look at a van that seats 15, compare it to an SUV that seats 8, and then a Toyota Yaris
31 Post contains links and images Keesje : Because Boeing doesn't say it is behind? No, Boeing stands so to say "above" that.. http://www.google.com/search?tab=nw&hl=en&ned=&q=randy%20boeing%2
32 NA : Very nice to hear the new 747 is on track. Lets hope it´ll be one of the increasingly few projects which are keeping track. Hoping for a breakthrough
33 Ikramerica : I've been suggesting that for a while. But there are certain people who are more interested in creating a fight than actually choosing a cool new nic
34 Post contains images Flysherwood : I have to agree with you on the 773 looking like something out of the photoshop! Another one is the A340-600. To me the 772, A343, 767-300, 757-200 a
35 Buddys747 : It's funny how just because EK, BA, SQ, etc. won't order the 748i, that it is dead in the water and won't get any more orders. Let's not forget that t
36 Post contains images Scbriml : I'm willing to be corrected, but I don't think Airbus has ever used that epithet for the A380, so I don't see where you get "aggressive" from. Howeve
37 Post contains images Flysherwood : Super Jumbo or Whalejet has more chances of sticking with the media.
38 Flighty : We are getting into a world where the A380 rules the top shelf of routes with the A388 and A389 (which is coming in a short 8 yrs or so). My view is l
39 NA : I totally agree with you, the 772 and the A332 are the bestlooking twinjets ever (I´ll add to it the 787-8). Their design is aesteciacally just righ
40 Post contains links Khobar : "The 747-8 Intercontinental is more than 10 percent lighter per seat than the A380, and consumes 10 percent less fuel per passenger. That translates
41 FlyingAY : I agree, she is not too bad from the other angles. I guess it's just that you can't see the 747 'hump' from the front.
42 Post contains links Scbriml : The point being made was that previously Boeing was very quick to compare the 748i to the A380. This latest announcement doesn't do that. It's mildly
43 Rwessel : Well, the oldest 744 turns twenty in a couple of months, which likely means that some 500+ 747s will be retiring in the next couple of decades. I thi
44 SCAT15F : I don't understand this... Boeing just spent a whole year focusing on weight reduction to gain more range, and two months ago they stated they had go
45 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I could care less what Mr. Chew says-he is extremely biased towards the A380 (rightfully so and its not a bad thing at all).......ostensibly, it seem
46 ERAUgrad02 : AMEN!!! Well here's my other question. Even though the max 3-class for 747-8i is 467 pax, LH is putting 400 seats in theirs from what I last read. So
47 SCAT15F : I agree... the only reson I can think of is that EK wants more square footage and lots of heavy luxury items (seats) that make the impact of fewer pa
48 Post contains images FAEDC3 : What other carriers? I don´t see a long line forming....
49 Post contains images EI321 : Just wait a few more years , they have to come aventually
50 ComeAndGo : Yes, But … don't forget that pretty much all those same airlines are upgrading their first and business classes to flat bed standard and will need
51 Post contains links and images Speedbird2263 : Good Point. It's good when one tries to be objective about the subject. It has been said before though, and continues to be said, that beauty is in t
52 SCAT15F : Wow! That is the best view I have seen yet of the cockpit section! It actually looks pretty cool in this picture. The best features of the aircraft h
53 Iwok : One thing that has me worried for aviation in general is the now close to $100/barrel oil price. If things continue like this we might find a lot of
54 Keesje : I think the A380 is the first aircraft that got a full multi media launch. An endless stream of videos of every stage / visit / test / happening / pr
55 FlyingAY : I don't understand why you do think that replacing the 'Jumbo' with a 'Super Jumbo' is ok, but at the same time you see replacing the 'Queen' with 'N
56 JoeCanuck : It seems that most news stories have dubbed the 380, "Super Jumbo". I think that's the name that will stick with the public.
57 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...according to some, we might see oil at $150/barrel..though I think at that point countries will be forced to create alternative energy sources...
58 Carls : You should send this information to SQ, LH, Air France, British Airways, Qantas etc. It is very important because seems they did not took this in con
59 Keesje : Is that based on a 525 seat Airbus 380-800 versus a 469 seat Boeing 747-8i?
60 Post contains images Baroque : I presume you are remembering that India had an Empress for quite a long time, and so are proposing that India now needs another Empress. Yes, well o
61 Swallow : The 748F is due for delivery in 08 and the 748i in 2010. The 787 test flight delay means six months less flight test data for the GEnx1B if 748 schedu
62 Keesje : Is there a point of no return for the 747-8i? Point of no return : moment when it gets more expensive to stop then to proceed. Famous examples of wors
63 JoeCanuck : No matter how you cut it, 20 747's is at least 3 billions dollars. (I thought it was 24). The Freighter version is paying for most of the R&D. The 'i
64 WINGS : 748F - late 2009 748i - mid 2010 Regards, Wings
65 Post contains images Stitch : While it was hardly all peaches and cream, Victoria wasn't a total disaster for India. I imagine the A388 will not be, either. I would hazard a guess
66 Columba : Don´t make the 747-8I worse as it is. It will definitely see the one or other customer besides when you look at the 747-8 don´t forget that there i
67 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...Look at the source...
68 Post contains links Khobar : http://boeing.com/commercial/747family/747-8_background.html - revision date of 9/20/2007 so it is pretty recent. I understand the point some are try
69 Post contains images DAL767400ER : 25, to be precise. 20 LH, and 5 748BBJs, and no doubt those customers going for the BBJ aren't as hell-bent on getting the lowest price compared to n
70 Post contains images Flysherwood : A380?
71 NEMA : I agree but you cant tell the 'one siders' on here that. A true enthusiast will accomodate all but on here there are many that just wont accept Airbu
72 Flysherwood : How about $20 Billion for under 200 orders? You know here is something to consider. Let us say that Airbus sells each A380 for $200 Million. After al
73 Gigneil : The sales they've already made are profitable. NS
74 Don81603 : All it needs are a rhinestone jumpsuit, sideburns, and cheesy shades, and the image will be complete.
75 Post contains images Keesje : ok Boeing and you folks say there is no problem & everything is going smoothly costs are already recovered & every single on time 747-8i will perform
76 Stitch : The rough actual build cost for an A380-800 is around $100 million. To my knowledge, even considering discounts and compensation, no airline will pay
77 DIA : Don't think I saw anything on this: Will the 748i have a higher humidity cabin like the 787?
78 Ikramerica : It doesn't work like that. Costs include the development amortized over each plane. The program doesn't need 1000 sales to pay back the d costs even
79 Post contains images Flysherwood : So Keesje's contention regarding the 747-8 and its inability to make money back for Boeing applies to the A380 and Airbus as well, correct?
80 Gigneil : They're completely different animals. The 747-8i is an incremental upgrade of a fully amortized project. The changes are small, a few bil, and my gues
81 Keesje : The 747-8i is a different aircraft. It has a different unique upperdeck, fuselage, certification, cabin interior, airco, waste, galley, evacuation, c
82 Post contains images Flysherwood : Have you ever done the math on the A380?
83 Gigneil : Again, I reiterate my previous statement except a little more politely. Nothing you say about anything is ever correct. Great. You keep yapping. I kn
84 Post contains images AirbusA6 : Henry VIII was dashing and handsome when younger, before becoming fat in his later years, the equivalent of the A346 gradually bloating into the A380
85 Post contains links and images Keesje : Radical statement from a.nets always angry young man. I think Boeing will respond, the airlines have voted with their checkbooks. After the A380 produ
86 EI321 : Two wrongs dont make a right. Im not throwing guesses at the break even point for the A380 because we already know what it is - between 400 and 500 f
87 Post contains images Flysherwood : Is that because the A380 has "NOT" been available to purchase for the last seven (7) years? Boeing has sold 70+ freighters already and they just froz
88 EI321 : All of which are going to replace ............ [drum roll] ........... their existing fleets of 747-400's. Neither the 747-400F or the 747-8i have wo
89 Post contains images Stitch : If Airbus can build an A380 for around $100 million, I would like to think Boeing could build a 747-8I for less... As such, I think Boeing might just
90 Tdscanuck : Unlikely. The primarily enabler for higher cabin humidity is a corrosion-proof fuselage. 748i, although it might change some alloys, will still be an
91 Post contains links Keesje : In addition to the closure of the -400F line, engineering resources have been diverted away from the 747-8 program to assist with both the 787 and 77
92 Stitch : Excuse me while I take another sip of the Kool-Aide, but this strikes me as something that is more likely to help production then hinder it since it
93 Post contains links Stitch : Looks like Vought might be the weak-link in both the 787 and 747-8I programs: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...aerospace/2004003350_boeing09.htm
94 PC12Fan : Unless I missed something in this article, the delays are being caused by other programs and not within the -8 program itself.
95 Post contains images EI321 : EK have the 747-400F in their fleet already and have the 747-8F on order. How about the soprano of the skies, although it may be too quiet to desere
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