Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Aer Lingus And LHR 2008  
User currently offlineTonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

Over a year ago while Aer Lingus was still a member of the ONEworld Alliance the airline signed an agreement with both the BAA and its other OW member airlines that it would move to T3 in the aftermath of BA's move to T5 in order to keep all the OW carriers in one terminal!!!

Now that EI have left the alliance but maintain strong links with BA (restrengthened after signing the deal recently regarding the BFS-LHR route due to be launched) are EI likely to stick to this move to T3 in 2008?


My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7165 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

No. EI will stay in Terminal 1 for the moment, as Irish passengers are 'special' - international, with no passport control.

When T5 phase 2 is completed, I understand that they will move over there.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineTonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Thanks for the reply Bestwestern however I do not actually think this is the case either. Aer Lingus will never get to grace T5 nor will any other airlines (with perhaps Qantas being the exception) once T5C is opened as T5 even in 2010 will be too small for the entire BA operation...from the horses mouth, did my employee T5 visit last Wednesday.

LHR is currently undergoing a change to its procedures for Domestic and Republic of Ireland arrivals allowing it to use standard gate areas. This should hopefully be accomplished by next summer with similar channels in place (with the exception of the Domestic gate area in T1 at all terminals as in T5 allowing passengers who do not require passport checks to get through to baggage reclaim. These same changes are due to occur in T3 also. Now, since EI have left OW no mention has been made as to whether EI will keep to its old agreement or just remain totally separate to BA by staying in T1 or moving to where all the non-aligned carriers are to be based in T4!!!!

Anyone with their ear to the ground in LHR perhaps able to comment?



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
Irish passengers are 'special' - international, with no passport control.

Were not special for much longer by the looks of things.


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

Quoting Tonystan (Reply 2):
Thanks for the reply Bestwestern however I do not actually think this is the case either. Aer Lingus will never get to grace T5 nor will any other airlines (with perhaps Qantas being the exception) once T5C is opened as T5 even in 2010 will be too small for the entire BA operation...from the horses mouth, did my employee T5 visit last Wednesday.

Well, EI wont be staying in T1, uless they join the *Alliance! I think T4 is going to be the terminal for unalligned carriers & Sky Team. So they will either move there, or remain close to their formaer oneworld partners at T3.

I think the long term plan is the folowing;

T1/T2 (Heathrow East); bmi & Star Alliance Partners
T3; Virgin Atlantic, BA (mainly 757) and oneworld
T4; Sky Team and Unalligned
T5; BA (and BA only!)

I think T4 would be a bit inconventient for connections. It would make mroe sense to eb with the code share partners in T3. There is not a chance of T5 though, the tree huggers have made sure of that!

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 4):
There is not a chance of T5 though, the tree huggers have made sure of that!

I don't understand? Also given the code sharing that BA is doing on EI flights would that not make sense for T5?



John Hancock
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 5):
Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 4):
There is not a chance of T5 though, the tree huggers have made sure of that!

I don't understand? Also given the code sharing that BA is doing on EI flights would that not make sense for T5?

Maybe when the other pier opens. There will only be one pier an T5 initiallly.


User currently offlineTonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

Unfortunately as already mentioned, there will be no room for other airlines at T5 even after T5C (the last pier due to be built) is built. BA have said that when T5C opens they intend on moving the 757 operated routes (hopefully the 757's will be gone by then but doubt it) over to T5 but there is still questions over whether the BKK/SIN/SYD flights will move as they wish to keep them near Qantas and if there is no room for Qantas then they will prob stay in T3.

It needs to be remembered that BA are about to embark on a major expansion plan with new aircraft, routes and extra frequencies starting around 2009/10 when new aircraft arrive already making T5 too small!!!! That is why no other airlines will operate from T5. It may make sense to have all of OW and its codeshare partners under one roof but sadly common sense does not run the airlines...especially at LHR!!!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2754 times:

Quoting Tonystan (Reply 7):
sadly common sense does not run the airlines...especially at LHR!!!

That's rather unfair on the airlines. The airport belongs to BAA, who decide (possibly in conjunction with ACL) who uses which terminal. The airlines cannot be blamed for the inadequacy of the individual terminals, planned or existing.

Riv'



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 5):
Also given the code sharing that BA is doing on EI flights would that not make sense for T5?

That would make a lot of sense but unfornutately there's no room at T5 for BA alone just imagine codeshare partners. T5C won't mean more space, as T5C stands will be used as remote stands from the begining (read here previously). Aer Lingus should be at the closest terminal to T5, that is T3, just the one planned for them a year ago when they were in oneworld.

Quoting Tonystan (Reply 7):
BA have said that when T5C opens they intend on moving the 757 operated routes (hopefully the 757's will be gone by then but doubt it) over to T5 but there is still questions over whether the BKK/SIN/SYD flights will move as they wish to keep them near Qantas and if there is no room for Qantas then they will prob stay in T3.

The shorthaul with 757 out of T3 will work as long as it's isolated from the rest of the BA's 320-series shorthaul operation. Once they need to swap 320s between terminals because they "run out" of frames, then that would start to be an operational nightmare. For the moment MAD, BCN, NCE, HEL, LIS and ALG will be operated exclusively out of T3 and with 757 only. With GB franchise withdrawal, I expect FAO and AGP routes to be operated also with 757 out of T3 for simplicity reasons (GB was going to be at T3 anyway).
With long-haul Qantas-JSA it'll happen pretty much the same. As long as they can isolate the frames needed for BKK, BKK-SYD, SIN and SIN-SYD out of T3 they should be fine.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4922 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

Quoting Aisak (Reply 9):
With GB franchise withdrawal, I expect FAO and AGP routes to be operated also with 757 out of T3 for simplicity reasons (GB was going to be at T3 anyway).

Would also keep all Oneworld LHR-Spain/Portugal routes at one terminal (with IB there too)

Quoting Aisak (Reply 9):
As long as they can isolate the frames needed for BKK, BKK-SYD, SIN and SIN-SYD out of T3 they should be fine.

They currently do that with LHR-MIA I think (only BA flight at T3 presently)



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineTonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1946 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2425 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
Irish passengers are 'special' - international, with no passport control

Well this arrangement will be changing sometime in the not so distant future so EI will not be able to use the domestic facilities like they currently do (except of course BFS flights but no one has actually said how they are going to deal with that one giving the ease at which someone from the Republic could book a flight from BFS & enter the UK without passing through passport control).

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 5):
I don't understand? Also given the code sharing that BA is doing on EI flights would that not make sense for T5?

True but I suppose if T5 cannot cope even with the BA operation then they have no choice but to locate EI elsewhere. Also, I'm sure EI is not the only airline BA codeshare with at LHR (correct me if I am wrong on this) so there really is no reason why EI would get terminal space at T5 ahead of anyone else.



Flown With EI,FR,RE,UA,CO,AA,WS,CX,QF,JQ: Airports SNN,GWY,ORK,DUB,NOC,LHR,STN,BOS,EWR,JFK,ORD,BOI,SEA,MCI,LHR,LYS,CDG,H
User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 10):
They currently do that with LHR-MIA I think (only BA flight at T3 presently)

I dont understand this really... Why do they only operate BA flights to MIA from T3?? Is there no space for this flight at T4?? Also whats with BA operating some heavy flights from T1?? Anybody know why they have this sometimes??


User currently offlineDoor5right From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 707 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
with no passport control

This will change in 2009 as both Governments are working to end the Common Travel Area agreement and passports will be required between Ireland and the UK when the UK puts an electronic border control system into place, although this will not be implemented at the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.



My soul is in the sky...
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting Aisak (Reply 9):
The shorthaul with 757 out of T3 will work as long as it's isolated from the rest of the BA's 320-series shorthaul operation. Once they need to swap 320s between terminals because they "run out" of frames, then that would start to be an operational nightmare. For the moment MAD, BCN, NCE, HEL, LIS and ALG will be operated exclusively out of T3 and with 757 only. With GB franchise withdrawal, I expect FAO and AGP routes to be operated also with 757 out of T3 for simplicity reasons (GB was going to be at T3 anyway).
With long-haul Qantas-JSA it'll happen pretty much the same. As long as they can isolate the frames needed for BKK, BKK-SYD, SIN and SIN-SYD out of T3 they should be fine.

There will be a 757 that will run out of T5 at some point when they run out of airbus frames, also vica versa there will be Airbus that operate out of T3 on some occasions when they run short of 757's.

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 12):
dont understand this really... Why do they only operate BA flights to MIA from T3?? Is there no space for this flight at T4?? Also whats with BA operating some heavy flights from T1?? Anybody know why they have this sometimes??

BA have been operating certain 747 flights out of T1 for a few years now, SFO/LAX/NRT/YVR/JNB/HKG. I think they operate at T3 so that they can have influence on how the terminal is run, something like that I was led to belive. And also space issues in the other terminals.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7573 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting Aisak (Reply 9):
Once they need to swap 320s between terminals because they "run out" of frames, then that would start to be an operational nightmare.

Why would it be an operational nightmare? Currently BA are operating all 319s but one out of T1 at LHR. The one is operated out ot LGW North Terminal on flights to EDI and GLA. It overnights every night at EDI as does one of the 319s operating out of LHR T1. So it is not an operational nightmare to switch these aircraft at EDI and bring the LGW 319 back into the BA Main Fleet at LHR.

Just occasionally an aircraft goes tech and a replacement has been ferried from LHR to LGW. I believe this has happened once in the last eight weeks. I am sure that this was an unwanted cost but it was not an operational nightmare.

Similarly is it an operational nightmare to operate a 763 theoretically based at LHR on the MAN-JFK-MAN rotation? I think not. The current aircraft operating this service is G-BNWC. It has been operating it since 3 October. On that date it was effectively transferred from LHR to MAN when it operated the early morning shuttle flight BA1382 from LHR-MAN. There it replaced G-BNWS on the JFK route. This aircraft having arrived from JFK was returned to LHR when it flew the BA1387 shuttle that same morning.

I think that if BA can transfer aircraft so seamlessly from airport to airport than transferring them from one terminal to another at LHR should not present them with anything approaching an operational nightmare. After all every day 320 series aircraft are towed between LHR operational stands and the BA West Engineering Base, an ideal opportunity for a seamless intra-terminal exchange.


User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Quoting Tonymctigue (Reply 11):
EI will not be able to use the domestic facilities like they currently do (except of course BFS flights



Quoting Door5right (Reply 13):
This will change in 2009 as both Governments are working to end the Common Travel Area agreement and passports will be required between Ireland and the UK when the UK puts an electronic border control system into place, although this will not be implemented at the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

I still don't understand how this will work? Is great Britain further segregating Northern Ireland from the UK? or is there going to be that loophole where you can fly from BFS to LHR passport free but not from DUB even though it's only a 2 hour drive with no checks? I'm more curious about this because of non-avaition related issues and I hope I'm wrong but I have my own opinions and ideas about exactly what this is about.... I just hope I'm wrong.

Quoting Tonymctigue (Reply 11):
True but I suppose if T5 cannot cope even with the BA operation

Yeah I kinda knew that, was never 100% sure to be honest but still wanted to make the point, I guess it depends on priority?



John Hancock
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting Door5right (Reply 13):
This will change in 2009 as both Governments are working to end the Common Travel Area agreement and passports will be required between Ireland and the UK when the UK puts an electronic border control system into place, although this will not be implemented at the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Just like....

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 16):
still don't understand how this will work?

...Smokeyroscoe says, this will be impossible to implement and sustain. The simple fact that Nothern Ireland has a physical political border with the Republic of Ireland will be overlooked, only for air/sea passengers to be overlooked when it comes to travel/identity documentation simply because they do not physically have to cross a piece of land between the north and the south of the island of Ireland. It's not logical.

For example, I live in Dublin and am a citizen of the Republic of Ireland. I drive to Belfast (across the boder), then take a ferry from Belfast to Scotland/England (which because it is the same country requires no passport control). At no stage have I been required to poduce travel documention. Does this mean that I have entered the UK illegally?

As a former Immigration Liaison Officer for three different European airlines, I'd be interested to know how you can quantify your statement.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 17):
For example, I live in Dublin and am a citizen of the Republic of Ireland. I drive to Belfast (across the boder), then take a ferry from Belfast to Scotland/England (which because it is the same country requires no passport control). At no stage have I been required to poduce travel documention. Does this mean that I have entered the UK illegally?

But isnt the proposal also to use passports between NI and the mainland?


User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
But isnt the proposal also to use passports between NI and the mainland?

This is my point, and all political allegiances aside regarding NI, but how can a government introduce a border control between two regions of the same country? If this were the case, then we'd have innumerable cases of Infringement of Human Rights in the courts. Imagine the outcry that there would be if one had to produce a passport in order to be able to travel from (for example) Glasgow to Manchester by whatever public transport means at your disposal.

This is why I asked for clarification of Door5right's source.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
But isnt the proposal also to use passports between NI and the mainland?

I know that this is a little aviation removed but should that mean that air travel between the north and the republic should be passport controlled?



John Hancock
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7573 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 16):
Is great Britain further segregating Northern Ireland from the UK

I believe that the background to these proposals rests with a statement made by an Irish Government Minister back in 2004. This was reported in the Independent, an Irish newspaper, in August of that year as follows:

"The common travel area between Ireland and the UK is being abused on a widespread basis by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants using false documents a senior government official has stated.

"The Gardai are in possession of 'thousands' of false documents used by illegal immigrants according to Tim Dalton, Secretary General of the Department of Justice."

So it may be that it is the Republic of Irland ad the Gardai trying to reduce illegal immigration to Ireland through the UK and not the British government that are making the running here.


User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

Found something in the Irish Times.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/1026/1193336827994.html

I've selected text and highlighted in bold some areas regarding aspects of what we have been discussing.

The successful development of "electronic" borders and the necessary protection of the Common Travel Area between the UK and the Republic will require the virtual integration of British and Irish immigration controls.

That is the verdict of some senior Northern politicians tracking current British legislation to effect tighter "UK" border controls and Taoiseach Bertie Ahern's initial comments on the development of "an Irish border system" likely to be "similar in some ways to the British system".


At the same time Ulster Unionist peer Lord Kilclooney (former MP John Taylor) has warned against a possibly anomalous situation which could see British citizens in Northern Ireland required to provide proof of identity when travelling to other parts of the United Kingdom.

"That would be political dynamite, unionists would be outraged," he said yesterday when asked about the possibility that the new border controls might apply as between "Britain" and "Ireland" while apparently having no significance for "the land border" between Northern Ireland and the Republic.


Lord Kilclooney was reacting to Wednesday's Irish Times report signalling the possible end of the Common Travel Area (CTA) and a future requirement that Irish citizens entering Britain produce a passport. In the Dáil on Wednesday Mr Ahern said "further border controls" would be required between North and South by authorities targeting illegal immigration.

As far as I am concerned, and read the rest of the report youself, but as soon as I read Wednesday's Irish Times report signalling the possible end of the Common Travel Area (CTA) and a future requirement that Irish citizens entering Britain produce a passport, then it all remains, for now anyway, just a report in a newspaper.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2076 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 21):
I believe that the background to these proposals rests with a statement made by an Irish Government Minister back in 2004.

Yeah, things have changed a lot since then, but also it's not the Irish government thats bring this in... also that doesn't answer my initial question of how this will work without land borders between the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

btw can you provide a link to that quote?

Cheers
Ross



John Hancock
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 20):
I know that this is a little aviation removed but should that mean that air travel between the north and the republic should be passport controlled?

Well it's not aviation removed at all, in fact aviation would only be a very small part of what would be a much larger picture when it comes to border control.

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 23):
also that doesn't answer my initial question of how this will work without land borders between the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

My point; it doesn't make sense.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Aer Lingus And The Boeing SST posted Mon Oct 31 2005 15:25:23 by EI747SYDNEY
Aer Lingus And 7E7 - A350 posted Mon Nov 22 2004 17:52:37 by PANAM_DC10
Aer Lingus And The A319 posted Wed Oct 27 2004 16:45:00 by Rossyboy
Aer Lingus And Air India Electronic Bannings? posted Mon Jul 12 2004 17:09:09 by Airbus3801
Aer Lingus And The 777-200? posted Fri May 7 2004 19:54:51 by RyanairA320
Aer Lingus And Belfast posted Sun Sep 15 2002 13:59:31 by Richcandy
Aer Lingus And BWI posted Sat Dec 16 2000 10:28:05 by DCA-ROCguy
Aer Lingus And Ryanair To Stopserving Lba? posted Wed Oct 18 2000 11:24:24 by GKirk
Aer Lingus And Their A330's posted Sat Aug 12 2000 14:01:16 by Aer Lingus
Is Aer Lingus And Lan Chile Already In Oneworld? posted Tue Jun 6 2000 03:04:56 by Lima