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Iberia To Decide On B748/A380  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Posted (7 years 3 weeks ago) and read 13935 times:

Seems that the Groupo Marsans order has caught Iberia by surprise:

Quote:
Iberia Lineas Aereas de Espana SA said it will decide on whether to buy the superjumbo A380 Airbus or the 747-800 Boeing (NYSE:BA) by the end of 2008 or the beginning of 2009, chief financial officer Enrique Dupuy said.

Speaking during Investor Day, Dupuy said the planes will have more than 450 seats and the flag carrier would need at least 10 planes to optimise costs.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...cles/newstex/AFX-0013-20799806.htm


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
104 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks ago) and read 13923 times:
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IB was one of the original customers Airbus expected to order the A380. Not sure they need something as big as the 747-8I, to say nothing of the A380, but if they do, then my money would be on the A380

User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks ago) and read 13863 times:

What routes could IB possibly be serving with the A380? The only that comes in mind would be MAD-EZE...

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks ago) and read 13850 times:

Quote:

Speaking during Investor Day, Dupuy said the planes will have more than 450 seats and the flag carrier would need at least 10 planes to optimise costs.

More than 450 seats wouldn´t that rule out the 747-8I ??

Quoting Adicool (Reply 2):
What routes could IB possibly be serving with the A380? The only that comes in mind would be MAD-EZE...

Read the article "The new fleet's routes would focus on Mexico and Buenos Aires and other destinations due to mature over the next four years."



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2315 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks ago) and read 13735 times:

I'd say the 748 was ruled out the day Boeing was born. IB even suggesting it is pretty comical. Airbus knows it'll be free to charge full list and maybe even a mark-up just for Christmas.

User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks ago) and read 13711 times:

Quoting Adicool (Reply 2):
What routes could IB possibly be serving with the A380? The only that comes in mind would be MAD-EZE...

IB could also send them to MIA IMO. Maybe that would ruin AAs route but those flights always seem to be full. MEX would also be another good route for the A380.
Maybe JFK also and, if they fly to Asia, HKG or NRT?


User currently offlineMestrugo From Chile, joined Apr 2007, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks ago) and read 13688 times:

I suppose at least MAD-EZE, MAD-MEX , MAD-LAX and MAD-SCL could run with those new airplanes. The daily service to SCL is currently run with an A340-600 and it's almost always full, so I suppose they could use bigger planes, either the A380 or the B748i.

Whatever they choose, it will be welcome!


User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1449 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13615 times:

IB order the 748? Phuliiiz! I'll believe it when I see it. AA must be looking at the A330 then!


If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13611 times:

They have been suggested, by several posters on this board, as possible destinations for the ILFC frames on a lease but this is the first time I've heard of them as buying customers.

Interesting, very very interesting!


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13589 times:

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 5):
if they fly to Asia, HKG or NRT?

I would doubt it, they have a weak presence in the far east.

I would imagine GRU, MEX, EZE and SCL would be strong candidates. I can't see them ordering a lot of either type when they do choose.

Quoting Wingman (Reply 4):
I'd say the 748 was ruled out the day Boeing was born.

Well they didn't rule out the 727/757/747-2/3/4 and others the day Boeing was born.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6961 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13483 times:

Gotta be honest. This is Airbus's to lose.

User currently offlineGabo787 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13447 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
More than 450 seats wouldn´t that rule out the 747-8I ??

Well in Boeing website they claim that the 748 can carry 467 pax in 3.class configuration, and since IB only fly business and coach, I don't think that capacity could be an issue if they chose this plane.

I think that capacity wise the 748 fit's better in IB needs, the 380 is way to big for they route network right now, but......you never know.

just my 2 cents


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13370 times:

I did not think they would order the A380 so soon.

User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13320 times:

I knew it, it was a matter of time...Marsans' order has put IB on the spotlight...I guess the winner will be the A380. IB already has a vast Airbus fleet, to offer a competitive to mirror other European competitors the A380 would be the best choice. If BA ties the knot w/IB more synergies could be explored between the two being BA an A380 carrier as well. Sadly, I do admit the 747-8 would look awesome in IB's livery...too bad the 747-8 is not selling...I guess that model is doomed.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13307 times:

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 13):
too bad the 747-8 is not selling...I guess that model is doomed.

I'm sure you probably meant the "B748I" is doomed... Wink



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4836 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13222 times:
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Quoting Wingman (Reply 4):
I'd say the 748 was ruled out the day Boeing was born.

I guess those were a funny version of the Trident and not 727s they operated for years then right?


User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13144 times:

Yes, I meant the 747-800...what a shame!

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8576 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13034 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 7):
IB order the 748? Phuliiiz! I'll believe it when I see it. AA must be looking at the A330 then!

Well, they were a long, long time Boeing operator and operated the 747 until as recently as last year.
I think the 748 has as good a chance as the A380. The airline already has lots of experience operating the 747 and the A380 may be too much aircraft for IB. Cargo is a very important aspect of IB's operation to S.America and the A380 has horrible cargo capabilities in a pax configuration. Also in favor of the 748 is the fact that Boeing is desperate for new customers. they's already shown to EK that they will do anything to get new customers. They may give IB a deal they can't refuse.


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12987 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 17):
Boeing is desperate for new customers. they's already shown to EK that they will do anything to get new customers.

Boeing refused to build a shortened/longer range version of the 748i. How exactly is that convincing EK to order it?

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12970 times:

Indeed this is Airbus business to loose. But unless they want to" keep up with the Jonesses" the 748I should be big enough for IB. For what should they need 10 A380s? This will be a rather political thing then.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12954 times:

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 16):
Yes, I meant the 747-800...what a shame!

...I'm sure you probably mean the "B747-8[i]" (Intercontinental) version and not the B747-8[/F] (freighter version)... Wink

I'm only giving you a hard time, don't take my comments seriously.... Smile  highfive 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31250 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12901 times:
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Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
I did not think they would order the A380 so soon.

I think a number of airlines have run the numbers, and decided that the A380-800 is the only logical choice for a 20-year airframe. So I think airlines are placing their small initial orders now, even though they know they can't use the plane to maximum effectiveness now, but expecting that in six to seven years when they will start getting them, they will be able to.


User currently offlinePanAm92 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12682 times:
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My money is on the A-380

User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12622 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
A380-800 is the only logical choice for a 20-year airframe.

How is it any more logical from an airframe standpoint than a 747-8? That really doesn't make any sense.


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12524 times:

Stitch

Totally agree with your comment.

Why buying a plane (in the IB case 748I) which will be the perfect size TODAY and some years after , but will be too small in some years to COME ?
As airlines buy a plane for about 20 years , it is far more logical to order the bigger model now , even if it is not maximalised during only a few years , but still have a low economical cost.

I guess we have to thing about futur , and not now.

At IB my 2 cents are for the A380.


25 Stitch : Off the top of my head... Performance - It carries more stuff farther and more efficiently. And it will only get better (A388E/A388R). Expansion - It
26 Columba : I doubt that, how is the saying, "an airline never went bankrupt flying too small aircraft". As an airline I don´t know how the market will develop
27 EBJ1248650 : I didn't see anyone offer the possibility that IB might buy a mix of both; perhaps a larger number of 748i's but enough A380s to get them started usi
28 B747forever : I think that they wíll go for the A380. But isnt it the A380 to big for IB???
29 Stitch : Pretty much every commercial airliner family out their has a multi-year delivery wait. Yet airlines continue to order them. Successful airlines have
30 NA : As much as I´m aware the 747-8Is engines (787 derivatives) are one generation ahead of the A380. And engines are not unimportant when it comes to ju
31 Scbriml : Given the lowish numbers that IB would likely be interested in buying, a mixed fleet really wouldn't make much sense. Evidence currently suggests the
32 A342 : Arguably, Independence Air went bankrupt because they did just that.
33 Post contains images Stitch : A plane is more then it's engines. And if Airbus does hang XWBs off the A388E, A388R and/or A389, then those engines will be a generation ahead of th
34 Post contains images FLVILLA : As mentioned before if BA does get together with IB in the near term then that can only offer synergies with A380 fleets and so on, also I expect BA a
35 Aisak : The airline hasn't operated a 747 in years. Last two 747-400 flying IB colors were wet-leased from Air Atlanta (TF-AMA and AMB if memory serves me ri
36 BY188B : So if IB order the A380, will that mean they use every Airbus fleet type currently in production?
37 MAH4546 : Buenos Aires, Mexico City, and Miami.
38 Stitch : Per Wikipedia, IB does not operate the A318 nor any A330 model. They also do not operate the A345.
39 Bogota : BOG will be up to 10 weekly on IB A340-600 as of January so in a few years it might also be an A380 possibility.
40 Scbriml : They only operate five of the ten models currently in production (eleven if you include the A332F). So, some way short.
41 LTU932 : IMO the only plane that would make better sense for IB is the 747-8I. It's not too big, but it's also not too small, and it can be used to complement
42 Bmacleod : Isn't Iberia nearly all Airbus? Looking at their market they really don't need anything bigger than A346s. If they were to decide between A380/748i, t
43 Gigneil : Iberia isn't the only one. According to Scott Hamilton and every other credible journo on the market, AA is in fact looking quite closely at the NSR
44 MSYtristar : I'm not saying that IB will order 748's...in fact I think they will go 380...but there are a few items to consider here. a) 747-8I will still be a ve
45 SCAT15F : Sure, but Iberia will be buying the A380-800, not the E,R or 9, and the 748i is more efficient than the A380-800 as it stands right now, at least acc
46 Gigneil : Say what now? Systems or avionics? NS
47 WINGS : Iberia do not operate the A318, nor do they have any A318 on order. They did in fact place an order for the A318 in 2006, although it was quickly con
48 MPDPilot : Well I can think of a good reason, you don't by something that looses you money today just because it is possible that it will get you money in the f
49 MSYtristar : I guess it would be systems. I'm slipping in my old age. I used to have really interesting chats with the pilots in regards to the similarities of th
50 Carls : Spain is the third or the second largest country in tourism in earth, so why an A388 will be too big for them. If Air Comet and Aerolineas Argentinas
51 Post contains images Scbriml : But they would say that, wouldn't they? Boeing's challenge is that it isn't just a.net that's giving up on it. Their decision to not offer EK their p
52 ZRH : You have the same misunderstanding as many people. The A 380 is heavier but as it has more wheels the runways don't have to be stronger. It has less
53 Scorpio : Well, the one airline to have ordered the 748i, LH, disagrees.
54 Stitch : I expect it will. But the airline's own calculations - based on two years of flight-test and route-proving data - appear to show that A380 is a more
55 LTU932 : From what I've read and heard, SJO's RW07/25 for example, is only capable of allowing aircraft up to the weight class of a 747, and I have no idea wh
56 Post contains images Gigneil : I KNOW. I am going to be 30 soon and I feel like I can't even remember my name sometimes. NS
57 Tavong : We still don´t know if Aerolineas Argentinas will be able to fill it, i really hope that they go well but they are still facing tougth times, i just
58 Gigneil : This is what boggles me, until I remembered they do have those 744s. But still... I am POSITIVE Aerolineas can fill it. Will they be able to PROFITAB
59 Post contains images AutoThrust : Then the 787 technology is based on 10 year old systems ? Are Power-by-wire flight control actuators, 5,000 psi hydraulic system, 150 kVA variable-fr
60 RCS763AV : LAX isn´t even served by IB. SCL, don´t think so. The destinations that would likely receive A380 flights are EZE, MIA, MEX, GRU and BOG. Others wo
61 GlobeEx : I think its the third. First is France, second Italy then Spain....
62 LTU932 : Maybe out of the question for an A380, but not necessarily out of the question for a 747-8I. There are occasions where demand skyrockets and warrants
63 Post contains links MAH4546 : Spain is second. Has been for the longest time. http://www.answers.com/topic/world-tourism-rankings[Edited 2007-11-07 15:04:00]
64 Post contains images Gigneil : We extract 3 times as much out of our visitors, however. NS
65 Avek00 : Speculating on ANY IB order is frankly worse than laughable at the present time.
66 QF772 : Remember in Europe, especially contintental Europe a tourist can drive over the border for the day, catch a train or fly with an LCC.
67 MAH4546 : It would not ruin anything. By the time IB were to get these aircraft, if they did, AA and IB will likely be profit-sharing on US-Spain flights.
68 EI321 : They are being economical with the truth and the lack of orders for the 747-8i reflects the facts. But IB wont be using the A380 on short haul. In an
69 Jfk777 : Many of Iberia's routes to Southern Latin America and Mexico are at the point with 2 or 3 A346 flights daily that a bgger plane is needed. If Iberia s
70 Post contains links Fyano773 : I think this order will go for the A380, partly because Spain has a stake in Airbus and partly because IB is an Airbus oriented operator. Besides, th
71 Plunaaircanada : They will lease some A380 form EK A380 leasing company and think about their order LOL
72 JRDC930 : This is though; as IB is already in bed with Airbus, i would assume this would be no contest, on the other hand the A380 seems a bit too big for IB...
73 ScottB : I would put the likelihood of a 747-8I order from Iberia somewhere close to AA selecting used Tu-154M's as their MD-80 replacement.
74 Post contains images Ikramerica : And with only one man in the race, Airbus would have to have a meltdown to lose it. And even then, IB won't order the 748. They just won't order anyt
75 Post contains images JRDC930 : It died the day BA went with the A380, and i would even argue the day it was conceived. In this case the "if you build it, some one will buy it" plan
76 Airbazar : Rumor has it that they have changed their mind http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3689765/ " target=_blank>http://www.an
77 Gigneil : That thread kicked off before Boeing put out the firm config press release saying no. NS
78 MIAMIx707 : It would've been an interesting possibility when IB used to have 2 flgihts to MIA plus the minihub. Right now they're only sending an A340 so I don't
79 MAH4546 : It doesn't make sense right now, it will make sense in the future when AA/IB get ATI and eventually begin revenue-sharing and Miami-Madrid becomes a
80 Thorben : Iberia has a great livery. Both planes would look nice in it, the 747-8I would look especially nice. But I think they'll go for the A380, in order to
81 JJJ : France receives a fair number of daytrippers from Britain and Switzerland to do the shopping, too. A lot of US 'tourists' are actually inmigrants see
82 Parapente : One must remember the 748i is a "fighting brand" part of its raison d'etre is to keep Airbus "honest" and make no profit on the a380. It has and will
83 Post contains images R2rho : Funny. Two months ago, this debate would have ended with a "IB will never order anything bigger than the A350, end of the story", and would have never
84 Mariner : Um - how does (potentially) not making a profit keep Airbus "honest"? And in what way does Airbus need to be kept "honest"? mariner
85 JJJ : An A380 in IB colours would be the perfect place where IB could introduce an Economy+ product. To me, IB's network in LatAm has lots of similarities
86 Columba : I believe that, too but they face competition of the Marsan Group that just has placed an order for the A380.
87 Yellowtail : I think you touched on a vital point here....a lot of the destinations IB serves in LatAm where it would need the 380 don't have the money to make th
88 Thorben : How much of a difference does it make whether you have a 747-8 or an A380 there?
89 Post contains images Airbazar : In S.America? Absolutely none. We're not talking about the US where there are strict rules for operating certaing category aircraft. In a lot of othe
90 Tavong : A lot..... 1-S. America hasn´t been on the scope of the A380 since it was conceived, the Marsans Order of A380 got everyone for surprise since at th
91 Gigneil : Why would they be able to take a 748? Its a Class F aircraft also, with higher runway loading than the A380. NS
92 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : To sum it up, IB can't go wrong with the 748. With the A380? the jury is still out. cheers
93 Scbriml : Perhaps you would like to explain what you're basing this claim on? A growing number of airlines seem to have arrived at exactly the opposite conclus
94 Post contains images SCAT15F : That's just plain brutal. Upgraded TU-114's would be pretty cool though
95 Post contains links Czbbflier : Looking at the performance of the US Dollar over the past year against the Euro, it appears that the currency has dropped by about 12% from .78 to .68
96 CXfirst : They plan to buy the planes in late 2008, early 2009. No one really knows how the world's economy will be then. -CXfirst
97 Iwok : By now of course you are aware that the 748 is doing very very well overall. Boeing is hoping to increase sales of the -i version, but to date the sa
98 GatoVolador : I agree. According to IB, a +450 seater is needed right now to cover mainly the routes to EZE (they said that in the future they will have 5 daily fl
99 MSYtristar : The 747-8 program has probably almost paid for itself already. Development costs are probably pretty minimal. I think Boeing knew all along that they
100 SKY1 : IB doesn't need compete with A7. It's Marsans/A7 who need compete with IB. And for IB, the 747-8I is by far more suitable than A-380. I'd like see IB
101 Thorben : And why?
102 MIAMIx707 : And it will keep dropping, especially as oil keeps rising. Even being a private company the idea of buying Boeing might be seen as a deflection from
103 LTU932 : Probably because most of the airports in Latin American (with the exception of GRU, GIG, EZE and maybe also SCL) they serve may not have the money to
104 SKY1 : That's right + with the fact IB doesn't need an A-380 extra seats at all. They are more focused about a smaller aircrat and increase frequency. Anyho
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