Flyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 852 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2594 times:
Any truth to the speculation that mainline AA will take back the shuttle routes between these cities in the near future? Currently all flights are flown by AE ERJs.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10193 posts, RR: 62 Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2581 times:
Quoting Flyby519 (Thread starter): Any truth to the speculation that mainline AA will take back the shuttle routes between these cities in the near future?
I'm not sure if the slots held by Eagle can be transferred to mainline, and even if they can, I have to wonder where AA is going to find the planes (presumably MD80s) for this. To run an even halfway competitive BOS-LGA-DCA operation, they are going to need at least 6-7 flights per day on each route out of LGA, which means at least 2-3 aircraft.
AA777ER From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 30 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2544 times:
Its about time.........................
With 35,000 PAX travelling between the 3 cities/day between Amtrak (55% of the market) and the Airlines (45% of the Market), it only makes sense to have the MAINLINE on the routes it NOT Eagle and reduce delays.
MrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2528 times:
I have read SPECULATION on another message board AA would need to go to mainline because of a staffing shortage at Eagle- and RJs were about to be parked-any truth to this?
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2501 times:
It's about time for them to consider upgrading the shuttle to mainline. As of right now Delta, USAirways and Amtrak (and Continental to some extent) offer more frequency on real aircraft, the American Eagle shuttle doesn't operate hourly flights and uses jungle jets. That, and the MD-80 will make them more cost competitive.
IIRC slots can be transfered between mainline and eagle. American has switched around LGA-BNA, LGA-YYZ and LGA-RDU betweeen Eagle and Mainline over the past decade.
Boeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 992 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2492 times:
Quoting MrSTL (Reply 3): I have read SPECULATION on another message board AA would need to go to mainline because of a staffing shortage at Eagle- and RJ's were about to be parked-any truth to this?
I have heard rumour at work(bos) that Eagle is pulling back there operation and even stopping overnight Maintainence, but we all just take it as a rumour, but it would be nice to get more flights back from Eagle.
PlateMan From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 904 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2485 times:
I just flew this route last weekend (DCA-JFK-DCA) and I can't see the demand for mainline.
Nearly 70 percent of those onboard were not O&D traffic, rather connecting passengers. The amount of foreign passports and non AA bag tags was amazing. Mostly EU traffic.
The reason I choose AA over the others was because of the plane. Although it is tiny, I love having the window and aisle seat at the same time (1-2 config.)
The flights were on 35-seat ERJs and still had about 5-7 seats open each segment. The DL and US Shuttle also rarely sell out.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10193 posts, RR: 62 Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2467 times:
Quoting PlateMan (Reply 6): Nearly 70 percent of those onboard were not O&D traffic, rather connecting passengers. The amount of foreign passports and non AA bag tags was amazing. Mostly EU traffic.
That's because you were going to JFK.
On flights from Boston and Reagan to LaGuardia, it is almost entirely O&D.
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2454 times:
Quoting PlateMan (Reply 6): Nearly 70 percent of those onboard were not O&D traffic, rather connecting passengers. The amount of foreign passports and non AA bag tags was amazing. Mostly EU traffic.
JFK-DCA-JFK is mostly for connecting traffic. DCA-LGA-BOS is O/D traffic.
JFK-DCA-JFK is an ideal market for MD-80s because of the upcoming slot restrictions at JFK. American can take a bigger chunk of the pie without having to add any flights by using MD-80s at peaktimes of the day.
Quoting PlateMan (Reply 6): I just flew this route last weekend (DCA-JFK-DCA) and I can't see the demand for mainline.
Traffic on a weekend isn't a barometer of what weekday traffic is.
Seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2449 times:
If AA goes to mainline on the shuttles, they're less likely to get my business. I fly BOS-DCA-BOS several times a year.
I try to fly MQ even if the price is slightly higher than DL or US (which it usually is) because the ERJ layout permits me to avoid rubbing shoulders with anyone.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
Ssides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 23 Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2400 times:
Since these are short flights, and a large number of the passengers are likely making day business trips, I think the RJ is actually better. Because it's smaller, you can get on and off much more quickly than on a mainline jet. Carry-ons, of course might be a problem, but that's generally not an issue for a day trip.
AA seems to be doing well on these routes, and so long as that is happening, I think you'll see their mainline jets deployed elsewhere.
ThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2178 times:
Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 4): As of right now Delta, USAirways and Amtrak (and Continental to some extent) offer more frequency on real aircraft
No wonder the Acela is fast...
If AA was to uprade to mainline, could we see a fare war? US and DL can charge quite a premium at the moment, as can Amtrak.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10193 posts, RR: 62 Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2034 times:
Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 11): If AA was to uprade to mainline, could we see a fare war? US and DL can charge quite a premium at the moment, as can Amtrak.
I doubt if US or DL could get a really substantial premium relative to AA, even with more frequency throughout the day. AA has one thing that neither of them have: the New York (plus Boston and Washington) frequent flier base. They all have huge frequent flier bases in New York, but because of AA's huge one, AA can definitely still generate at least semi-strong demand for these flights regardless of what plane is used. Look at the Eagle RJs: the schedules have been modified/reduced, etc. since the flights started a few years ago, but even still, Eagle is holding strong with 37-seat RJs up against 737s and A320s from Delta and US because the AA FF base is so strong that it will sustain what some (though not all) consider an inferior product.
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 11): If AA was to uprade to mainline, could we see a fare war? US and DL can charge quite a premium at the moment, as can Amtrak.
Certainly more incentive and special deal fares, but certainly not an all out fare war. The DC-NYC-BOS market is enormous, a significant portion goes by car or bus. If air fares drop enough, passengers using scheduled busses or driving might have a greater incentive to fly. AA upgrading to MD-80s would add some 2000 seats per route roundtrip, a lot on paper, not a lot considering the high RASM generated the size of the market.
Apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3640 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1749 times:
Personally, if I didn't have benefits on US, my travel between NYC and BOS would almost exclusively be on Amtrak. Supposedly this route is the highest yielding domestic route in the industry. But its fiercely competetive as well. Delta, and USairways have the shuttles, Eagle is trying to compete on LGA, CO runs their own shuttle at EWR, plus now B6 runs their own service into JFK, and I believe Eagle still flies that route. Thats just the air. Acela is 3 and a half hours, and even the conventional trains are only 4 and a half hours, which isn't much considering its about 30 minutes to the airport from downtown BOS, an hour at the airport since you have to be there an hour in advance, about an hour block time to LGA, longer if their is flow, and then about an hour cab ride to Manhattan, where South Station and Penn Station are already in the center of their respective cities. Plus the train is least affected by weather. Not only that, but Greyhound/Peter Pan also runs an hourly service, that time wise is somewhat comporable to Conventional Amtrak trains, and you also have the Chinese Bus as well. And I believe there is now a luxury limo service between the two as well.
To whoever said that AA going mainline would help congestion, I got news for you. They would only replace ERJ's, but since the frequency is the same supposedly, you still have the same amount of flights into LGA, which doesn't help congestion, and with more seats available on AA, it will trash yields and not be profitable, especially if the pilots get their way.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10193 posts, RR: 62 Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1720 times:
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1710 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 15): I don't think there's room for AA on the DCA-BOS-LGA triangle. DL and US really do have it locked up, in my experience.
Plenty of room, IMO. High yields, high loads, and plenty of competitors as is. The market is huge, there is surely some demand for upgauging some, if not all of American's flights.
LGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1101 posts, RR: 22 Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1558 times:
One of the advantages US and DL have at LGA at least are their dedicated Shuttle terminals and locations. To many of the customers in these markets a key advantage is being able to arrive close to departure time and still make the flight, and the shorter security lines help make this possible, as well as separate Shuttle ticket counters. AA at LGA does not have the same advantages. DL and US also both offer rear deplaning weather permitting which even with Eagles aircraft only having 37 or 44 seats gives another advantage to both DL and US, especially if nothing else customer perception. In addition to dedicated facilities DL has dedicated Shuttle aircraft, and US has Mainline 319's that are only doing Shuttle flying on that particular day, minimizing delays, and crews and station staff as well. If AA where to use MD80's and start a more serious Shuttle operation the only advantage they would have would accruing advantage miles, in every other category DL and US would be more desirable.
N766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 7993 posts, RR: 27 Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1511 times:
COERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1420 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1464 times:
Quoting Apodino (Reply 14): an hour at the airport since you have to be there an hour in advance, about an hour block time to LGA, longer if their is flow, and then about an hour cab ride to Manhattan, where South Station and Penn Station are already in the center of their respective cities. Plus the train is least affected by weather. Not only that, but Greyhound/Peter Pan also runs an hourly service, that time wise is somewhat comporable to Conventional Amtrak trains, and you also have the Chinese Bus as well. And I believe there is now a luxury limo service between the two as well.
30 minutes for Delta Shuttle@BOS and 15 for DCA and LGA due to the dedicated gates/check-in areas/security lines.
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1405 times:
Quoting LGA777 (Reply 18): and US has Mainline 319's that are only doing Shuttle flying on that particular day, minimizing delays, and crews and station staff as well.
If American were to operate a shuttle they would know better than to not dedicate aircraft to the route.
American isn't talking about running a shuttle (supposedly), the thread starter suggested that American was considering upgrading its flights to MD-80s.
The dedicated terminal advantage is huge at LaGuardia, but at National and Logan, American is about even with the competition in terms of check in times. It has never taken me more than 15 minutes to go from check in to my gate when flying from National on American.
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