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737-200 Loses Engine On Take-off In CPT  
User currently offlineArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26719 times:

Apparently a Nationwide 737-200 lost an engine on take-off at CPT.
The aircraft was seen heavily smoking and diverted to a nearby airport.
Engine came loose after TR buckets deployed causing the engine to shear off.
737 is ex LH build in '81 reg number ZS-OMG

http://www.702.co.za/news/news.asp#76819

edit for link

[Edited 2007-11-07 07:32:54]


[edit post]
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2972 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26694 times:

Wow, that must have been rather scary! Kudos to the pilot!


A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineA390 From South Africa, joined Sep 2005, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26659 times:

Landed safely all onboard OK

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...a/News/0,,2-7-1442_2216890,00.html


User currently offlineCraigW From South Africa, joined Aug 2005, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 26659 times:

how does an engine just fall off a plane, i must have just come in from JNB or DUR before leaving again fro JNb so it had just done a flight?

User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 26593 times:

Same happened to a Piedmont 737-2 in the 80s, where the engine fell off in flight.

User currently offlineA390 From South Africa, joined Sep 2005, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 26531 times:

Here is some more news

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...&art_id=nw20071107171817856C423027

Must have been a pretty scary landing. Not only one engine but I'm sure quite a few other systems would have been affected.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11701 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 26526 times:

Quote:
"They took off and left the engine behind," he said.

What, didn't quite get that?

Quote:
"It was an engine lying on the ground."

Ahh - that makes it perfectly clear  silly 

That guy sounds about as shocked as the passengers onboard would have been! Still, I believe on older aircraft models like the 737-100/200 that the engines were attached with sheer pins, which were designed to sheer off in case of an incident? I'm sure someone will know the full details - but I seem to remember reading this in a book once.


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineTom355uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 336 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 26527 times:

Quoting CraigW (Reply 3):

When AA191 (DC10) crashed after losing an engine at ORD, It was discovered the damage had occurred quite a while before the accident. Several cycles had been completed with no problems or indications of a fault, but during the fateful take off roll, the forces on the damaged mounting simply became too great and ripped the pylon and engine off (and the hydraulics and captains instrument power supply).

Tom



on Twitter @tombeckett2285
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 26441 times:

The JT8D engine on a 737-200 is attached to the pylon by two cone bolts in vibration damper mounts forward and one cone bolt aft. The aft mount also contains a second safety backup bolt. Just above the T-R is a decal with a green line and an arrow pointing at it, which shows if the rear mount came loose. If the rear mount is defecttive and the engine only held by the backup bolt, the arrow will not align anymore with the green line.
(from memory, the last time I worked on a -200 is about 9 years ago)

Jan


User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7113 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 26358 times:

There have been a number of 737-200's that have had engines fall off; all of them have landed safely. A 727 lost an outboard engine once after ingesting "blue ice" from a leaking toilet; it also landed safely. I don't know if any 707's have lost engines; I would be surprised if none have. The only Boeing plane that has crashed because of an engine falling off is the 747; and it happened to two of them. One was the El Al cargo plane that crashed in Amsterdam, and that was because when first engine fell off it hit the other engine on that wing (the first one fell off because the fuse pin failed from fatigue) and knocked it off as well, but more importantly destroyed the leading edge slat between the two engines. This caused the same effect as the DC-10 at Chicago, which crashed not because the engine fell off but because the slats retracted when the hydraulic lines were severed and the pilot was unaware of it. The same befell the El Al plane. A China Airlines 747 also had a very similar accident with the same outcome; the 747 pylon attachments were redesigned as a result. Boeing's philosophy was that they would rather have an engine fall off then do structural damage if it became too unbalanced (from losing fan blades, or some such event). This works fine on a twin or even the outboard engines on the 727, but causes problems on the inboard engines of quads.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 26285 times:

Pilot: "Left engine seen smoking heavily..."

Maintenance: "Gave it a nicotine patch..."



Cha brro
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 26149 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
The JT8D engine on a 737-200 is attached to the pylon by two cone bolts in vibration damper mounts forward and one cone bolt aft. The aft mount also contains a second safety backup bolt. Just above the T-R is a decal with a green line and an arrow pointing at it, which shows if the rear mount came loose. If the rear mount is defecttive and the engine only held by the backup bolt, the arrow will not align anymore with the green line.
(from memory, the last time I worked on a -200 is about 9 years ago)

Good memory, and the only thing I'd note is that the single aft cone bolt has a cable as a back-up, not another bolt..

All the comparisons with other aircraft are apples and oranges, the cone bolt issues on the 737-100s and 737-200s are, or were, well-known. Increasing inspection intervals seemed to resolve the issue here, and I don't think the industry saw any more problems since the last-1980s. Whether adherence inspections elsewhere is as compliant is another matter.


User currently onlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 26056 times:

Quoting ArniePie (Thread starter):
737 is ex LH build in '81 reg number ZS-OMG

Wow! Didn't we just lose a HS-OMG? Very strange! Glad this one made a safe landing.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineNEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 25948 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 9):
There have been a number of 737-200's that have had engines fall off; all of them have landed safely

And how reassuring is that?. Amazing and great to know.



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7113 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 25881 times:

Quoting NEMA (Reply 13):
And how reassuring is that?. Amazing and great to know.

As I said in my previous post, it goes to the design philosophy that Boeing has had on its jetliners, which has worked on most but not on the 747. I consider it reassuring that, of all of the things that can cause an airliner to fall out of the sky, an engine falling off a Boeing twin is not likely to be one of them.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 25819 times:

Aren't safety bolts for engines common practise in aircraft design and not solely Boeing's practise?


[edit post]
User currently offlineKalvado From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 497 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 25761 times:

Quoting ArniePie (Thread starter):
Engine came loose after TR buckets deployed causing the engine to shear off.

Would the plane be able to land with one engine in reverse (or even engine off with TR deployed)?


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 25751 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 11):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
The JT8D engine on a 737-200 is attached to the pylon by two cone bolts in vibration damper mounts forward and one cone bolt aft. The aft mount also contains a second safety backup bolt. Just above the T-R is a decal with a green line and an arrow pointing at it, which shows if the rear mount came loose. If the rear mount is defecttive and the engine only held by the backup bolt, the arrow will not align anymore with the green line.
(from memory, the last time I worked on a -200 is about 9 years ago)

Good memory, and the only thing I'd note is that the single aft cone bolt has a cable as a back-up, not another bolt..

I remeber a crushable honeycomb block and a bolt. I think I'll have to dig out my old course notes and check.

Jan


User currently offlineZTagged From Niger, joined Oct 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 25734 times:

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 12):
Quoting ArniePie (Thread starter):
737 is ex LH build in '81 reg number ZS-OMG

Wow! Didn't we just lose a HS-OMG? Very strange! Glad this one made a safe landing.

You know, I thought that when I saw that. Good eye.  checkmark 

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 10):
Pilot: "Left engine seen smoking heavily..."

Maintenance: "Gave it a nicotine patch..."

Thank you for my new email signature!  rotfl 



Something awful.
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 25718 times:

Wow, really amazing. Wonder what the passengers thought when they didn't see any engine.

Any pics???



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineA390 From South Africa, joined Sep 2005, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 25653 times:

Hopefully I'll get some pics tomorow. If I do I will definatley post them.
Here's hoping !


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 25624 times:

Quoting A390 (Reply 20):
Hopefully I'll get some pics tomorow. If I do I will definatley post them.

That is great.

Would love to see some pics.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 982 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 25505 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 1):
Wow, that must have been rather scary! Kudos to the pilot!

Or "pilots", even.

Many years ago an Aer Lingus 737-200 (EI-ASA, I think) struck a flock of birds on takeoff at Dublin and one of the engines was badly damaged, to the extent that its aft mounting failed and it was retained by the cable that has been mentioned earlier. The aircraft managed to limp back for a landing but at one stage the crew considered that they might have to put it down short of the airport if they did not make it.

Here is a report of a 707 from which an engine detached in flight over France in 1992 but which just managed to land safely, though the aircraft never flew again. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19920331-0

I recall that a USAF KC-135 also suffered the loss of one, or maybe two, engines during GW1 in 1991 but managed to land safely.


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 25443 times:

Quoting ArniePie (Thread starter):
ZS-OMG

Great that all ended well!

Can't help but noticing the "OMG" part of the registration! How appropriate!



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineCraigW From South Africa, joined Aug 2005, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 25316 times:

update from a passengers perspective:

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...a/News/0,,2-7-1442_2217038,00.html


25 A342 : That's what I call "losing an engine"! If only more a.nutters learnt to use the word "engine failure" to avoid any ambiguity...
26 Post contains images JoKeR : Just reading the press reports and comments on PPRUNE.... the flight deck crew did an excellent job, as did the flight attendants! Well done to the en
27 OPNLguy : The crushable stuff may have been there too but I -know- the cable was, since that's all the aft part of the engine on ours was hanging on by when it
28 Jcf5002 : ZS-OMG... Ironic because I bet most of the passengers were screaming Oh My G-d!!! Good job and a pat on the back goes to the crew. I'm guess the fligh
29 Post contains links and images MIAMIx707 : Tampa 707 on takeoff from Miami, engine bounced fell off, crossed perimeter road and fell on the lake after crossing the street lol Notice anything u
30 Post contains links and images A390 : First pictures and some more information so far. Well done to the crew ! http://www.flyafrica.info/forums/showthread.php?t=8039
31 Post contains links OPNLguy : A little off in my memory of years... 1986, 1987, 1989, and 1992--a six year span... Delta B737-200 7Jan92 DFW. Engine separation on takeoff. After T
32 SkyguyB727 : I remember years ago when WN had a B737-200 with an engine dangling precariously just after takeoff. The pic was in all the newspapers.
33 Post contains links A390 : Another 12 photos over here: http://www.news24.com/News24/Gallery/Home/0,,galleries-1-5068,00.html
34 LH526 : Seeing the one-two-go crash earlier last month I can say that -OMG is not a good Reg to fly!
35 MD11Engineer : Just had a look in my old books. At least the LH 737-200 (I did my apprenticeship on them and also my practical exams for qualifying) didn't use a ca
36 LTBEWR : At least the design of the 737 and the particular way this incidnet occured as well as well trained cockpit crew meant a good and safe emergency landi
37 Post contains images A390 : What if one of these engines fall into an urban area? Central London, packed sports stadium, as examples. A/C often fly over cities in the world. I wo
38 A390 : Update: Nationwide Airlines Press Statement 08 November 2007 – 14h30 Nationwide Airlines Salutes Pilots and Crew Nationwide Airlines Chief Executive
39 B747forever : Thank you for the pics. It looks really bad.
40 A390 : No problem ! No doubt there will be more to follow.
41 LX001 : I just can't understand why these old planes are still allowed to fly. Even if they are maintained well, I would rather prever seeing them in the muse
42 Post contains links LY4XELD : From the Independent Online (South Africa) ""The guy next to me seemed to know something about planes. He said, don't worry: the plane will go with on
43 Umfolozi : Several tour groups from the UK were aboard. They were on their way to catch connecting flights to London.
44 MD11Engineer : During my apprenticeship I have witnessed how a group of mechanics tried to install an engine on a 737-200 f*cked up. The problem was that everybody
45 Siren : OMG! The plane almost crashed! Seriously though. I was alerted to this via CNN's story. The 732 doesn't even have facilities to dump fuel... the artic
46 2175301 : Actually, the safety feature is that the engine can fall off in abnormal situations. It is a lot better than having the wing break apart and the enti
47 Post contains links and images 2H4 : You're 100% correct, and the media/tabloids are 100% incorrect: Source: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/faqs/fueldump.pdf 2H4
48 Post contains images Pilotaydin : That low budget airline has a new meaning ?
49 Post contains images A390 : Thanks, what you say makes sense
50 Post contains links A390 : Media at it's best ! http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa...ncy.landing/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
51 ANother : With the engine detached wouldn't fuel spill out of the broken connections, or are their valves that can be closed (and would the pilots prioritise th
52 AlexEU : Info taken from aviation safety datebase. Status: Preliminary Date: 07 NOV 2007 Time: ca 15:50 Type: Boeing 737-230 Operator: Nationwide Airlines Regi
53 OPNLguy : I think the engineers at Boeing were already way ahead of you on this one...Besides, it's not like pilots have lots of free time to be closing valves
54 MD11Engineer : Initialy fuel would be pumped out off the torn fuel line. But the drill for a damaged (or lost) engine includes closing the start lever on the center
55 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...Lauda couldn't
56 Post contains images B747forever : Has to be that. Absolutely.
57 Tdscanuck : By design. The design philosophy is always there. It's not always done with shear pins, but the point is that the engine is supposed to come off befo
58 Post contains links Andz : I'm sorry to spoil all the fun comments about OMG but it was in fact ZS-OEZ as stated by Alex in reply 52. There was a photo on the front page of The
59 Tdscanuck : Interestingly, this AD doesn't say anything about causes or findings on the actual event. It looks like a giant CYA...inspect everything that might h
60 Flymad : How is this going to affect MN and 1T. I know MN have been phasing out the DC-9's but 1T only have DC-9's. And why ground the DC-9's when it was a B7
61 MSYPI7185 : Glad everyone is OK. This reminds me of the Piedmont Airlines 737-200 which had an engine separate from the wing on takeoff out of ORD in the mid 80's
62 Andz : It is going to affect all the local airlines except SAA and Mango. Nationwide, BA Comair and Kulula have 732s and 1 Time have only DC-9s and MD-80s.
63 HAWK21M : Are you sure. JT8Ds on B732s are mounted with Two cone bolts in front & one Aft. The Cone bolts have a shear section & are NDT Inspected every Check
64 AlexEU : Chaos as you said. JNB is Mecca for 737-200 (and DC-9). Is this going to affect MD-80 aswell (because of JT8) ? How about other airlines flying 732 t
65 MD11Engineer : Depends on the airline. If you are working for a dodgy outfit (or have a stupid mechanic, see my story above in post #44), a damaged cone bolt might
66 Post contains links A390 : I can't see any evidence of FOD, as suggested. I have been trying to post pictures of the engine but with no luck. However they can be viewed here. ht
67 Post contains links and images MD11Engineer : Seeing the pictures, I noted that the forward inbd. vibration damper got totally broken off the fwd engine mount forging: The fwd oubd. cone bolt sepe
68 Tdscanuck : In-flight T/R deployment isn't such a big deal on the JT8D's. The bucket reversers aren't as efficient as the cascades and the loads are well within
69 MD11Engineer : I disagree. The lateral forces (thrust, side loads) are transfered to the engine mount structure by the accurately machined conical surfaces (very si
70 Tdscanuck : I'm not sure how what you're saying and what I'm saying are any different. I don't dispute your charachterization of the load paths in a cone bolt mo
71 NA : Oh my god - you must be right! hahaha, a comparison of apples and oranges. Throw everything in one pot, stir it, cook it, and you won´t find the sou
72 2H4 : Those figures, by themselves, suggest that the 732 is inherently more dangerous to fly than other aircraft types. When the complete picture is examin
73 Post contains images Andz :
74 Flymad : Been looking at the available pictures and see no evidence of damage to the fan blades which would suggest FOD. The a/c is 26 years old. How many cycl
75 Speedbird128 : He didn't... 103 down is a big number...
76 Tdscanuck : The engine mounts are one of those parts that are regularly inspected for fatigue. If you're following the maintenance program, that installation sho
77 HAWK21M : Shouldn't the K1 relay eliminate this. Are you considering the no of flying hrs this craft has done.Safety is depending on Mx & not age of Aircraft.A
78 Tdscanuck : I can't remember if the 737-100/200's have the K1 relay (I don't have a WDM in front of me...I'm assuming that's the interlock relay). Most of the T/
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