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Official Dubai 2007 Airshow: Boeing Thread  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 505 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 43227 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

The much awaited 10th Dubai Airshow is upon us and we have decided it would be appropriate to run 3 Official threads on the major LoI / MoU / Order announcements and one for any engine selections announced.

You can find the official Dubai airshow details at the following link

Dubai Airshow 2007

This thread is for Boeing announcements, below are links to the Homepage, Official Schedule and Press Release Site

Boeing Home Page Boeing Dubai Airshow Schedule Boeing News Release Centre

We ask that you refer to the following 2 links for Airbus and Powerplants

Official Dubai 2007 Airshow: Airbus Thread

Official Dubai 2007 Airshow: Engine Thread

Additionally, we realise that many Military Contracts may be announced. We ask that those be posted in our Military Aviation & Space Forum

The purpose of these threads is to keep a daily tabulation on any announcements made and to keep seperate each companies announcements. Though we understand there will be split orders, having the official threads should make it a lot easier to track orders for each OEM and make for a good reference for the future of the site.

We do realise that there will / may be major orders announced given recent speculation and some media reports. Therefore, if an order is announced and listed here, by a New A380 / 747-8 Operator, a Major A350 / B787 Commitment or by a carrier of regional or strategic importance, it should be entitled to it's own seperate thread. We ask that order be posted here with a link to the relevent thread and a link back to this thread, that way a free and open discussion can be had on EK, QR, GF or whoever, without overwhelming the official threads.

In relation to Regional orders such as ATR, Bombardier, Embraer and Sukhoi etc or any developments of new frames or further news of R&D in existing projects please feel free to go ahead and post as normal.

Some news may well be worth posting in our Tech / Ops Forum

Any enquiries please direct to moderators@airliners.net on behalf of the Moderating Crew we thank you for your assistance. It's a good week for aviation, let's make it a good week for the Forum.

[Edited 2007-11-08 01:26:39]


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
209 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 43224 times:

So I'm guessing the first order will be the (30) 787's for QR... Wonder if they will add any more 777's onto the (22) they ordered last yr.

Wondering if GF will order anything...?



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4095 posts, RR: 90
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 43137 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

No the timing of these was not co-incidental  Wink

Cathay Pacific Order the following

7 x 777-300ER

10 x 747-8F + 14 Options

Fair use excerpt

By Clare Cheung
Nov. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., Hong Kong's largest airline, agreed to buy 17 Boeing Co. airplanes, valued at approximately $5.2 billion, to meet rising demand for travel and trade in China.

The order comprises seven 777-300ERs and 10 747-8 freighters, the airline said in a Hong Kong stock exchange statement today. The carrier, which also took options for another 14 747 freighters, received ''significant price concessions,'' it added.


Source: HKSE Filing via Bloomberg

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12027 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 43091 times:
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Interesting that Boeing only has two announcements scheduled.


Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 43051 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 2):
No the timing of these was not co-incidental Wink

Cathay Pacific Order the following

7 x 777-300ER

10 x 747-8F + 14 Options

Excellent job PanAm_DC10, as usual we can count on you to keep us well informed with the latest events.  Smile

This also excellent news for Boeing and in particular for the 748F program. What needs to be confirmed is if Cathay with its 14 option can be converted to the 748i?

Its also nice to see the 77W continuing to do well. I would imagine that the new order is a conversion from previous options.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineW3ndytj4n From Indonesia, joined Feb 2006, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 42972 times:

Congratulation to Boeing and Cathay. Looks like 77W is doing really well. This is another boost to 748 project. Hope to see CX livery on 748i, not only on 748F.


w3ndy.



Wendy Tjan
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2868 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 42918 times:

Congrats to CX and Boeing,

This just might leave the door open for the 380 as if they wanted pax 78I currently they would have orderd them as part of the package.

Karan


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4095 posts, RR: 90
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 42795 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
Interesting that Boeing only has two announcements scheduled.

They always allow their customer to announce the order and given the days ahead I believe that with LAN and now CX they are taking the momentum with them into Dubai. Just an opinion.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 42557 times:

Hate to be the pessimist amongst this good news, but Boeing better get these sales into the press before EK announces their blockbuster A350 deal.  Wink


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 42441 times:

I´m very happy about the 748F order, as a CX customer I want to fly on a 748I though, and not the 773ER. I will fly another airline to Hongkong then, if they replace the 744 on the FRA route in the future.
Hope CX orders A380 soon, if they don´t want the 748I (as this order somehow indicates).


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6334 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 42259 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 10):

Yeah, I'd like the 748 but the 77W would be much better than the A340 if they phase them out for the 77Ws. I thought it was the other way round - CX said the A380 was too big so they never ordered it. Either they will change their minds or stick to their strategy now of a bigger 77W fleet.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 42116 times:

They should have airshows like this here in the U.S. where Boeing and Airbus announce orders. That would be nice.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4095 posts, RR: 90
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 41637 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Moderator Note

Quoting Moderators (Thread starter):
We do realise that there will / may be major orders announced given recent speculation and some media reports. Therefore, if an order is announced and listed here, by a New A380 / 747-8 Operator, a Major A350 / B787 Commitment or by a carrier of regional or strategic importance, it should be entitled to it's own seperate thread. We ask that order be posted here with a link to the relevent thread and a link back to this thread

To clarify. The order by Cathay Pacific falls into that category. It's a case of content and quality which we would expect of such a post.

That means a high quality post with a link between the two is allowed. The first member to meet such a requirement can have their Post remain, for example;

We would prefer a better post to note the significance of the order. For example CX's largest ever order, now have 30 firm 77Ws on order. Significance of the 748F commitment, impact of not ordering the 748I, what does this mean for their VLA requirement.

What impact on DragonAir, if any and their cross shareholdings in mainland China carriers, if any.

Add a link to the Cathay Site and inter link with this official Dubai thread so that they both link into each other. You can post. It's not who is first but who provides the best content for the overall membership of the site to discuss.

Thank you.

[Edited 2007-11-08 05:08:27]


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29656 posts, RR: 84
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 41435 times:
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CX has barely taken delivery of their first three 77Ws with two more due soon, and yet they commit to another seven, so they must feel the model is really going to work well for them.  thumbsup 

User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 41425 times:

the 748F has proved a winner already, and it seems only logical that CX - who's predicting a rosy future for the cargo market in the area, and already operates a large 742/744 cargo fleet - would order it.

The reason CX hasn't made a noise about a VLA order (A380 or 748) is that they're not interested in them ...so far.
They're sticking to the 77W in larger numbers, to improve flights frequency.

It's no real secret that CX aims at the business/first traveller and that's where their profit comes from, and the 77W fits that strategy just fine.

However, I, for one, don't believe that a major airline in the heart of Asia and its booming pax traffic can do without jumbos of some sort, so I'm curious to know what'll happen when the retirement date of the 744s comes around...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 41271 times:
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I was hoping to see an order for 748 passenger aircraft when I first saw this on CNBC Europe at 4:00am east coast time. While Cathay clearly is going for frequency over size right now with the 773ER, it wil have to buy a BIG plane for its fleet in the next few years. Four 773ER to LHR & 3 to LAX, just isn't the same as a few A380 or 748 thrown in. While Cathay owns the LAX to HKG route today, LHR to HKG is a very competitive route wit ANZ, Qantas, BA and Virign to compete against.

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4445 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 41266 times:

Congratulations to both Boeing and Cathay. It seems that my username's relevancy will continue on for quite some time now! I'm curious as to what the 747-8F order does for the possibility of a 747-8 pax order. In my opinion, it increases the likelihood because CX will now have first hand knowledge of aircraft performance etc.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7025 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40967 times:

Quoting W3ndytj4n (Reply 5):
Hope to see CX livery on 748i, not only on 748F.

Maybe they will convert some of their 14 options into orders for the 748I.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40939 times:

Good for CX and the new 77ws. Imagine if they had ordered them 3 years ago..... they could have a fleet of 70 by now.

Of course its nice to see the 748F orders, the 747 will always be the Queen of Cargo. But I think Cathay Pacific should order 25 A380s with 25 options. China has alot of people and if CX cant fill them, the they can panit some A380s in Dragoinair Livery. You know they can fill seats from PKG/PVG/HKG, and to all other major destinations in asia.
Its a question of prestige: CX needs to have the most luxurious widebodies if it wants to keep winning best airline status.

But its a tough call becuse with all those freighters maybe they should have one common pilot pool for both 748i and 748F.

I would choose the A380.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40721 times:

A riskless order to facilitate growth. Good deal for Boeing.

ordering the 777-300Er and 747-8F also sends a clear signal about the CX being interested in the 747-8i.

I think Cathay made clear they' ll wait for a new a380 adding range or capasity or both.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40535 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
Maybe they will convert some of their 14 options into orders for the 748I.

Thats indeed possible. Its even possible the decision has been basically made already internally and CX ist just delaying the announcement to have time. With 14 options they can still wait 2 years before they say "we´re taking the 748I".


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40466 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 16):
Cathay clearly is going for frequency over size right now with the 773ER

With 30 773ERs on order these jets will not only be for fleet growth. So what will they replace? The A343s and A346s, the 772s and maybe the 773(A)s seem to be the most likely candidates. That they just added secondhand 744s indicates that the 744 is not what the 773ERs will replace, at least not in the next 5 years or so.


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6532 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 40004 times:

Excellent news and a definate step into the future for CX.

The 77Ws at the moment are not for replacing the 772As or the 773s which will stay in the fleet for the forseeable future. The priority on the passenger side is replacing the three A346s, followed shortly by the A340-300s which will all be gone by around 2014. I am sure by then the 772s will probably have gone too although this has never been quoted anywhere.


User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39997 times:

While I'll concede GE is the only engine choices for these particular aircraft, but the significance of GE making some in-roads into a traditionally RR customer's fleet, can not be discounted.

Good day for Boeing, the 747 and 777 programs GE engines and Cathy Pacific! I fully expect them to take the 777-200LRF sometime in the near future as well.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39863 times:

Congrats to CX and Boeing. I look forward to seeing more of Boeing's announcements this coming week!!

AA1818



God is a Trini...
25 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : No one took us up on the offer so please refer to the following thread as Cathay definately warrants it's own discussion Cathay Pacific Order 7 X 773
26 NYC777 : Well the airshow runs until the 15th and Boeign has scheduled events unitl the 13th so if they need to schedule further announcements they have two m
27 Gokmengs : On the turkish aviation thread there are news about pegasus announcing additional 738's, I will try to find a link to it. Congrats to Boeing and Pegas
28 Post contains links Gokmengs : Here is the link, to the Pegasus order for 738's. http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm
29 KC135TopBoom : My mistake.
30 CX flyboy : In all liklihood he flies the lot. For the majority of Airbus crew in CX, they are simply that. They fly all Airbus types. Some based crews are quali
31 Post contains images Lightsaber : Yes PanAm, thank you as always! I'll be curious as to other 748F/I orders! Partially as I'd like to hire back some structural consultants currently w
32 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : To clarify, they have 5. An update of their media site now shows a joint press conference with Royal Jet. http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q4
33 Qantas744ER : What really is amazing how well CX manages to integrate 3 engine producers into their operations. RR PW and GE all receive MX by CX's HAECO facility a
34 Slz396 : After adding the Royal Jet announcement, I can count only 3; the rest just seems to be briefings about various topics, but no order announcements: 1
35 Scbriml : Yes, they seem to be doing very well. It's a shame they seem to have gone from painting their BBJs in a very nice scheme, to boring anonymous white.
36 Moo : Here are a list of notable press conferences that may be of some interest - I shall post it in both threads: Airbus Sunday 3.00pm - Conference Room A
37 Post contains links Scbriml : From Boeing's website: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q4/071105a_nr.html Sunday 12:00pm is a "Middle East Market Overview" Monday 11:00am is
38 Post contains links and images Scbriml : Boeing had an early press briefing today. http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOJqBrSoXSS8qBCOiFBzQ7tTM1fA I believe this big order will be the confir
39 Post contains links Keesje : There have been rumours for some time on Airbus and Boeing talking to Embraer and Bombardier about filling the lower end of the Narrowbody replacemen
40 NYC777 : It's probably the QR order though I wouldn't discount another ME carrier such as SV or EY perhaps from making a 787 announcement. It certainly won't
41 Post contains images Stitch : Well if Boeing says at the Overview that they plan to bag up to 150 new orders by year's end, having EK announce 100 787s a few minutes later would b
42 N1786b : Maybe you are simply mistaking the Regional Aerospace Industry with Regional Jet Manufacturers? To me, the "regional" in regional aerospace industry
43 Keesje : That could very well be. Dubai has ambitions (& money) to build up an aerospace cluster: the Dubai Aerospace Enterprise. It plays a role in any contr
44 ERAUgrad02 : I hope it is for the BBJ3 (737-900ER). No one has ordered yet.
45 Post contains links ChiGB1973 : Is this the same plane? http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...rs-to-900er-becoming-first-us.html M
46 Thorben : I don't see any reason why QR would replace new and great planes like their A330s or A346 (I think they have no 343s) with T7s, when the A350s will c
47 NYC777 : Because 1) the T7s are coming now. 2) significant fuel savings over the A330/A340 vs the T7s. With oil hovering just below $100/bbl they need a more
48 Post contains links W3ndytj4n : QR has one Airbus 340-300 according to Plane Spotters w3ndy
49 Viasa : The "new" A340 is operated by Qatar Airways Amiri Flight as A7-AAH. It's the former Mandarin A340, which was first operated by Singapore Airlines and
50 NA : It was never flown by SIA, and delivered in pure white, as it was one of the aircraft directly taken over by Boeing and remarketed as part of the 777
51 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : By years end or over the course of 2007? If the latter they already have 24 listed on their O&D spreadsheet. Add to that there are 190 Unidentified o
52 Iwok : So it looks like we can expect another 75+ or so frames from the middle east this year for Boeing? A few minutes and we should have some info. -iwok
53 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : According to Boeing that is the correct amount. Must be quite a few UFO's as only 24 are identified. QR will be interesting to watch. Another new 748
54 Cartoonranger : Never wishing to formulate rumours that may not be true, i have to say that there are a significant amount of posters of 787's going up around the GF
55 PanAm_DC10 : Emirates confirm order for 12 x 777-300ER, Not yet stated as to whether these are the 12 booked as Unidentified by Boeing on July 31, 2007. Source Emi
56 Scbriml : I think there's every possibility for a GF 787 order, despite their Airbus history. However, by today's standards (which just went up a notch or two)
57 W3ndytj4n : Wow, EK is really running the show. Announcing a massive widebody aircraft purchase. w3ndy
58 Post contains links and images Scbriml : I don't think they've finished. Looks like they want more 777s. What are they going to do with all these planes?* http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news
59 Slz396 : I think the 12 77W are interim lift for their order for 70 (+ 50) A350s which was announced simultaneously, as I take it the XWB will replace the T7 a
60 Iwok : Here's hoping to new orders as interim lift so to speak.... Just how do you get your info so fast? iwok
61 Cloudyapple : The significance of the emirates announcement was not the 70+50 A350 nor was the additional A388 and B773ERs - these we have known/expected all along
62 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Boeing: Qatar to announce 787 order today. The worst kept secret looks like being formalised, but is that all they intend to announce with QR? DUBAI,
63 Scorpio : Over the A340s, yes. But the 777 is not more fuel efficient than the A330.
64 LY777 : they say Boeing expects 150 a/c ordered: but 10 777s from EK plus 30 787s from QR equals only 40 a/c. Will QR order more 787s? Maybe GF?
65 Scbriml : Boeing said they expected 150 orders from the region in the whole year (not this week). So add on orders already booked, plus probably a significant
66 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : I guess we will see an order from Saudi-Arabia as well: http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSL1119762920071111 That´s either be Saudia
67 PanAm_DC10 : Firstly the 12 x 777-300ERs for EK are the ones listed as UFO on Boeings site Secondly Qatar have confirmed that they have ordered 30 x 787s and 5 x 7
68 LY777 : maybe some 777s/787s (or even 748I)
69 PanAm_DC10 : Well EK is now sealed but no word yet from Dubai Aerospace and Leasing except an MoU with GE. So I'll say they will order some 737s and 787s. If not
70 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : Other reports state an order for 30 B787 and 27 B777 - or has somebody just added the 22 firm B777 orders (old) plus these five new ones? http://yaho
71 PanAm_DC10 : That report has added the 22 already listed. These are the 5 booked as Unidentified on Boeings O&D Spreadsheet on April 2, 2007 Regards, PanAm_DC10
72 Post contains images Scbriml : Wow, QR does like to sit on its Boeing orders for a long time.
73 JerseyFlyer : Not sure - they have not replaced any of their 30 - 40 A332s in terms of size. It's amazing to conceive an airline of EK's breadth requiring nothing
74 Post contains links Lumberton : This Reuters report says QR has acknowledged the 30 787s, plus 27 777s. http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...sNews/idUKL1122487620071111?rpc=44
75 SkyGazer : That's what I'm thinking. EK not ordering any A350-800s this round may be hinting at something? Maybe there's room for 787-9s to replace the A330s ev
76 Atnight : This report appears to mislead indicating that QR has ordered 27 777s recently, when it appears from other reports that QR is actually just listing h
77 Lumberton : No it says "would also buy", which is a future action. But, honestly, I don't know what to make of it.
78 Post contains links Atnight : Lumberton, check this updated news report and you'll see that it clearly shows that the numbers mentioned are for orders already placed... So as far
79 JoeCanuck : Really...how old are you? What purpose could you possibly have by making this comment? Airbus and EK have made a super deal. You're obviously an airb
80 Rheinbote : The bickering about who clinched more orders or which orders do really count is pretty meaningless. The question is whether one is really going to mak
81 QatarA340 : Guys, i am quite confused as to what is the TOTAL number of 777 ordered by QR? I know QR ordered 14 77W, 6 77L. and 2 77F in the past, but it has orde
82 Post contains links JoeCanuck : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...or-30-boeing-787s-and-27-777s.html These aren't new, though they are just being officially announced. They've b
83 Stitch : QR has technically ordered no new aircraft. All of the announcements - 77Ls, 77Ws, 77Fs and 787s - are either identification of previous UFO orders o
84 Thorben : Which was not really a secret, at least concerning the 787s. This over-and-over announcing of orders makes it sometimes hard to keep the count. I'm s
85 Scbriml : To be fair to Boeing, until today, they've not said anything about QR's orders for 787s and 777Fs. Yes, they did little things like have QR's logo on
86 LY777 : Can we hope some new Boeing orders until the end of the year?
87 Stitch : I expect so. Boeing often does nice business in the last two weeks of the year.
88 Pnwtraveler : Remember that Boeing always doesn't announce orders at airshows. Only if their customers want to. So more orders are immanent (before year end) but ma
89 Connector4you : Tarom Romanian revealed last month they are looking into adding two to four B737-800. RO took delivery of its third A318 few days ago with the final
90 Ikramerica : Why exactly would orders stop? Anyway, they still have to firm up the QF 787s and BA 787s. That'll be a nice widebody boost there. 477 widebodies net
91 LY777 : I must say I am not too optimistic for Boeing unfortunately; there are not so many orders pending compared to Airbus. Boeing is bound to lose the comp
92 Bringiton : Have you seen the record year that they are having? 787 has had (IIRC) its best year , the 777 has had its 3rd best year (so far) the narrow body is
93 Sbworcs : I did not know there was an official race!! I am not sad about it at all - I am just happy that BOTH Airbus & Boeing appear to be on track for over 2
94 Post contains images Stitch : What do Boeing care? They are going to have a third consecutive 1000+ order year. I doubt they're crying about that fact in Chicago or Seattle... The
95 Stitch : Watching each company's margins between 2008 and 2012 should give us a good idea of how the deals were structured...
96 Bringiton : If they launch the -10 next year it would reach 1000 before year end ie. Before EIS .
97 Sbworcs : Fair point - but that would be boring!!! Having to wait that long for the answer!! lol
98 LY777 : I am not too optimistic in fact due to the 787 delay; I only hope it will have a 6 months delay, and not more.
99 Stitch : Doesn't matter. The 787 is the only game in town. Everything else on offer for delivery in the same time-frame (prior to 2014) is inferior. Airlines
100 StoutAirLines : True, it does appear that Airbus will win the sales race for this year. Airbus may likely regain the top sales spot for years to come. It's not the e
101 Keesje : I've heard the 787-8 empty weight isabout the same as A330-200 right now. You cant get any 787s before 2012 at this moment. What if GE/RR provides ne
102 LAXDESI : Leaving aside the stretch, how much more fuel efficient will A332 be with new engines?
103 Kbdude : So... did Boeing add any "new" firm orders on day 1.... its a bit confusing???
104 Post contains links Keesje : GE says on their webside: "The GEnx will deliver 15 percent better specific fuel consumption than the engines it replaces, helping operators save whe
105 Post contains images Brendows : That doesn't change the fact that the latter will burn between 10-15000kgs more fuel on the leg between LHR and SIN with the same payload. Says who?
106 Stitch : Quite simply, they won't. First, the GEnx2B series has too large a fan to fit under the A330. The Trent 1000 fan is even larger. Second, if GE is so
107 Keesje : Then why did they propose it? Lets not forget the A330-200 is significantly smaller then the A350-800 (also A330 is 8 abreast, 787 /XWB 9 abreast). T
108 Post contains images Stitch : Evidently GE has changed their minds about offering it in the 18 months since that proposal was first floated based on their refusal to power the A33
109 Elvis777 : Howdy all! I hope so as well! If that cvomes to pass that indeed is not good! I am hoping it does not I hope not! Because if one strives for exellence
110 Stitch : I'd rather strive for profits then raw sales, myself...
111 Pnwtraveler : Stitch is correct. Try explaining to shareholders why there is a loss on their shares because you sold aircraft at a loss so that you could sell the m
112 StoutAirLines : Being the sales leader only gets you the bragging rights to having sold the most in a particular time period. What really matters to stakeholders is
113 Lumberton : Ummm...LH ordered 20 748I's if we are focusing only on pax aircraft.
114 JayinKitsap : Beyond what Stitch indicated, it is market share of actual production that matters, the margins on that production, the efficiency of both the product
115 JoeCanuck : One thing I find interesting is that every plane that Boeing has on order at the moment, will be paid for and flying for the customers before the firs
116 Post contains links LY4XELD : I haven't seen this posted yet...QR and EK have placed orders. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...E4C-FE25-4984-A0C2-095A30742C0C%7D
117 Elvis777 : Howdy Stitch, I agree , self evident. Are the two mutually exclusive? I don’t think so. Why cant I have better profits than eads on a per plane basi
118 StoutAirLines : VLA = Passenger capacity greater than 450 in standard three class configuration
119 Stitch : I don't think it is possible in a duopoly to have those conditions. One way for Boeing to out-sell and out-margin Airbus would be to offer a product
120 OldAeroGuy : Yes, I was also confused about the EK order announcement for 11 A388's until it was clarified that it was for 8 previously announced and 3 new.
121 Haggis79 : Stitch, I enjoy reading your sound and balanced posts for quite a while now.... welcome to my R/U list!
122 Boeing7E7 : The 787 is 20k lbs lighter. Even if it did, it has a better wing and a vastly superior engine with superior fuel burn. Someday, we'll all wake up and
123 Ikramerica : 400+ pax, not 450+.
124 FlyingAY : Your reply would imply that Airbus is selling their planes at cost, which I do not think is the case. But if Airbus is making a profit selling these
125 N1786b : Which also highlights the fact that one of the manufacturers has more or less based their business model on making big money with VLAs. - n1786b
126 PanAm_DC10 : Dubai Aerospace Leasing Order / LoI the following from Boeing; 70 x 737s 15 x 787s 10 x 777s 5 x 747-8 That's 200 frames which D.A.E. have committed t
127 Flying-Tiger : -8 or -8F?
128 PanAm_DC10 : Sorry it should read as follows; 10 x 777-300ERs 5 x 747-8F Regards, PanAm_DC10
129 LY777 : so, these are 100 boeing a/c ordered today?
130 SkyGazer : You are speaking of hypotheticals of which in this day and age do not exist. What you're saying implies that the monopolist has taken the initiative
131 Moo : Yes, DAE placed near identical value orders with both Airbus and Boeing today.
132 Iwok : Damn good year for everyone... I remember a few years ago when we were seeing ~300 orders per YEAR. My how times have changed. iwok
133 PanAm_DC10 : Yes. Not quite. Airbus is a preliminary agreement, an LoI. Boeing is a firm order. D.A.E. have just confirmed their engine orders for the 737s, 77Ws,
134 Post contains images WINGS : No really much to choose from I think that we all should congratulate PanAm_DC10, for his hard work and dedication, in providing us all this wonderfu
135 Post contains images Iwok : It would be great if Hamlet could keep track of all the orders Hamlet.... Where are you???? iwok
136 Kbdude : 2 questions: 1. Are we sure they are "firm" for Boeing? Read a few news articles... they have it as LOI only as of today. BTW, I hope these are firm
137 LY777 : So, what is the total number of orders for Boeing for 2007?
138 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Many news report vary. In my opinion this is a firm order. In relation to the 748 program, you are correct, with CX and now D.A.E the program has bre
139 LY777 : When is the end of the Dubai Air Show?
140 Kbdude : My sincere thx for the clarification... Although....I thought there were 5 x 748i BBJ? (checked the Boeing O&D webpage) For a VLA perspective..... th
141 Post contains links and images PanAm_DC10 : No problem and you're correct it's 5 x VVIP (BBJ) I forgot the one ordered this year so 103 just going from memory As for the A380 sir I refer you to
142 PanAm_DC10 : Boeing have announced that LCAL have ordered 6 x 787s. There are 6 frames booked as Unidentified on July 13th. It is not yet confirmed whether these a
143 PEET7G : OK, I am a bit confused cus too much at work, so I don't quit get the hang of these orders-nonorders... do we see any new orders at Boeing at all unti
144 Scouseflyer : It must be the analyst in me wodering if I think that the EK T7s were new and the DAL ones
145 KC135TopBoom : I believe that will take a few B-787 sales, as the airplanes can be delivered earlier. But, more important to Airbus is that will kill the A-350XWB p
146 N1786b : Air Arabia has ordered A320.... just hitting the wires. So, who ordered the 34 737s? - n1786b
147 LH506 : EKs was an UFO
148 Post contains images Stitch : Yes it would, but I have long argued that Airbus does not sell their planes at a loss, so I was hoping folks would remember that. Again, I'm not sayi
149 OA260 : Some nice orders there for boeing. Nice to see RJ getting the 787.
150 NYC777 : Not sure if this is a new order or reconfirmation of an existing firm order made earlier this year. Also been hearing that Boeing has more orders to
151 NYC777 : Any one know which version ofthe 787 DAE is buying? Since they didn't list it in the PR I think the DAE order with Boeing is also an LoI.
152 Post contains links Scbriml : Many news sources now reporting both Airbus and Boeing orders from DAE are "tentative", "preliminary", "LOI" http://www.cnbc.com/id/21750916 http://ne
153 Yellowstone : Just got in my inbox the Boeing press release about QR confirming their order for 30 787s and 5 777 freighters. I know that the order has been all but
154 Thorben : That one was cleared pretty quickly. The most confusing were US' A332 (they really have 20 on order now) and those 77W for JJ an PR, where they seeme
155 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Technically, that will remain the case until they hit the respective O&D spreadsheets. Here's what Boeing say; DUBAI, United Arab Emirates, Nov. 12,
156 7cubed : I read a BBC article today that had both B's & AB's sales values from Dubai. The article stated that the figure AB gave had the cost for engines inclu
157 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : The D.A.E. announcement warrants it's own thread and discussion given the sheer magnitude of their announcents. Feel free to discuss that in the follo
158 AeroplaneFreak : Who is winning the orders this year?
159 Stitch : Airbus. Likely by around 100-200 frames.
160 Post contains images JRDC930 : In other words, Dubai is nothing to get excited about for boeing; but this is too be expected, as Boeing never anounces mega orders( not that they'll
161 Post contains images Astuteman : Congratulations to Boeing for securing this commitment, and confirmation of the QR and EK deals. Good show for all, it seems. Regards
162 Ikramerica : The DAE LOI sounds a lot like the China orders: balanced for political reasons with no real idea on where the planes are going to go. They bought som
163 Gigneil : No, they don't. NS
164 NYC777 : Well if Boeing wins a large 787 order from one of the US major (Delta, AA or UA) it might put them over the top. The last 6 weeks of this year are go
165 Dank : According to this month's version of the orders and delivery spreadsheet, they have: 318: 15 ordered, 0 delivered, 0 operated 319: 124 ordered, 101 d
166 JRDC930 : Yeah it would, but i was under the impression UA,DL,AA, were all going to wait quite a bit longer before placing any orders, or I'm i wrong? Either w
167 Jfk777 : The large block of 787 ordered by ILFC, nearly 100, has to be with a deal for fora domestic airline.
168 JTR : What does the operated mean in the ordered/delivered/operated breakdown? Are those planes that have gone into revenue service?
169 Dank : Can be lower than delievered when some have been sold, retired, etc. Can be higher than delivered when leased (at least that's what I'm assuming). ch
170 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Just to confirm the order by Royal Jordanian is for new frames and not an existing order; Boeing, Royal Jordanian Sign Order for Two 787s DUBAI, Unite
171 PM : Unlikely. The actual number is 74. At least 15 of those have already been placed with airlines. Moreover, ILFC have chosen RR for 40 of their 787s, G
172 PM : I believe these are the first 787s CIT have placed. The first two are from ILFC, aren't they?
173 Ikramerica : Could be AA. AA is having labor troubles, but could sign a lease agreement without raising too many red flags, securing 787s sooner than they would b
174 Post contains images PM : But there are only 38 left. Unless ILFC choose RR for their remaining 27!
175 Post contains links ENU : I'm not sure if this is related to the Dubai Airshow, but... Transavia signed a deal with Boeing last week, ordering seven B737NG's (-700 or -800 to b
176 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Thanks PM I stand corrected. Thank you ENU Here is a press release stating they were previously UFOs SEATTLE, Nov. 13 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boein
177 Post contains links Scbriml : Here's a little more information about the Paris MOU (which wasn't for plane orders, but for a strategic collaboration). http://www.khaleejtimes.com/
178 Post contains links and images Scbriml : They do. US Airways' SEC filing clarified the situation for anyone who can read. The filing of interest is the 10-Q on 25th October. http://www.usair
179 Post contains images Asiaflyer : To discuss US Airways A332 order on the thread that belongs to Boeings orders at Dubai Air Show must be as far off topic as it can get.
180 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Perhaps that could be discussed at one of the following, more appropriate threads, Airbus October Orders Official Dubai 2007 Airshow: Airbus Thread M
181 LY777 : why are they losing money whereas EK is developing so fast!
182 Columba : Maybe because they stand in the shadow of EK............
183 JoeCanuck : Gulf Air went a very long time without upgrading. I'm not sure they really believed that there would ever be a real airline boom in the middle east.
184 KC135TopBoom : I'm sure they can lease some new build B-737NGs and B-767-300ERs at good prices.
185 Post contains images Ikramerica : 38 sounds like a good number for AA... So does 35, or 30, or 25, or 28. This is because AA would most assuredly lease some and buy some of a fleet th
186 Flysherwood : I was just reading James Wallace's blog on the Seattle Post Intelligencer website. On it he mentioned "... and the 777's ordered by Qantas..." Did I m
187 PM : Surely a mistake. QF haven't yet ordered the 777 and it seems unlikely that they will do so now.
188 Post contains images PM : Sounds even better to me since we're talking about RR-powered birds!
189 Post contains images Ikramerica : They are too busy slamming it while their competition buys it...
190 Iwok : Does anyone have a compiled tally for both manufacturers for firm orders and commitments? It seems like Boeing did pretty good leading to and during t
191 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : A big week no matter where with QF Group placing a major order being discussed at Qantas Order Up To 188 Aircraft (320/321/73H) The Boeing component i
192 LH506 : Not really Dubai anymore, but I just read the following on Reuters: Sorry I cannot make the link work: "Indonesia's Lion Air plans up to $600 mln expa
193 KC135TopBoom : So were the other 60 B-737-900ERs ordered in 2006? $600M does not seem like the correct price for 22 B-737-900ERs, based on listed prices. Is it poss
194 WestWing : Something is very odd about the LionAir disclosure of the 22 frames. When the orders were booked, there were 62 -900ERs booked on the same day (25th M
195 LH506 : Maybe it has something to do with differenet Financing packages and/or that the 22 frames where adquiered by a different Lion Air subsidiary in a dif
196 Post contains links HummingBird : Am not sure if this was already posted. Boeing has high hopes for an EK 787-10 deal. http://gulfnews.com/business/Aviation/10167664.html
197 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : To clarify for you. I do not believe it's an actual order but investment outside of Indonesia in other carriers. Indonesia's Lion Air plans up to $60
198 Post contains links NYC777 : Here's Boeing's weekly order update for 11/13/2007: http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm New Orders: 7 x 77W for Cathay PAcific 10 x 7
199 Stitch : I wonder if EK not taking the rumored 30 A330-300s at Dubai means that they think a sub-560,000lb MTOW 787-10 is a much better prospect? Even if it o
200 KC135TopBoom : But, if they wanted that type airplane all along, they could order the B-777-200A, for the 5000nm with 300 passenger, capacity. For longer range, the
201 Flying-Tiger : The given range for the A350-1000 is 8,000 nm, which allows you to fly to every place in the World except for southern Chile from DXB.
202 JoeCanuck : They why would EK be worried about the 748i getting 8300nm instead of 8000?
203 Scbriml : Given their large order for A350-900s, I'd be somewaht surprised if they also took the 787-10. I don't think EK's interest in the -10 is that great r
204 Iwok : I noticed that the BA and Qantas 787 orders are still not firmed up yet. 1000+ orders seems like a no brainer for Boeing this year. Its simply amazin
205 Stitch : They have the 777-200, 777-200ER, 777-200LR, 777-300 and 777-300ER. Wiki says the 772s leave the fleet in 2011, which is why many expected an A333 or
206 Post contains images Scbriml : That's one thing I've never doubted.
207 Kbdude : The 787 UFO list has shrinked.... 2x788 18-Jan 8x788 30-Mar 2x788 28-Jul GENx Any guesses on the 8x788? VS?
208 JRDC930 : Overall a pretty ho-hum display for Boeing; but thats to be expected. Plenty of action though on the Airbus side, so it turned out to be interesting a
209 Post contains images Ikramerica : Because they didn't want it no matter what, but Clark likes to talk and make demands in front of the press. It makes EK big dog in the region...
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