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Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans  
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 697 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14168 times:

From Travel Daily - Thursday 8 November 2007
Link cannot be posted as you need a subscription to view...

Quote:
Major EK news pending

EMIRATES ceo Tim Clark will visit Australia within the next couple of weeks, with his arrival expected to see some major announcements about the deployment of additional capacity in the Australian market.

EK senior vice-president commercial for Australasia and East Asia, Richard Vaughan, told TD yesterday the carrier is experiencing very high load factors and is “struggling to find seats for the demand”.

And although Emirates will take delivery of 24 new aircraft in the next 18 months, Vaughan wasn’t able to disclose where the planes would be deployed across the airline’s network, except to say that he expected the current constraints to be partly addressed when Clark is in Australia.

The carrier is also expected to place orders for further planes at next week’s Dubai Air Show and is eagerly awaiting its first A380, due next Aug at about the same time as QF receives its initial super-jumbo....

Source: Travel Daily 08NOV07

Maybe we'll hear about their intentions to fly A380s to MEL and SYD next year?

Perhaps they want to increase MEL/PER/SYD to thrice daily...

Maybe they will also announce the much talked about and rumoured 2nd daily nonstop DXB-BNE service with the 77W or 345 (might be a higher priority now that EY is flying to BNE).

What are peoples' views/thoughts? Does anyone think it will be about EK flying A380s to Australia on existing services or about additional flights?

Interesting times ahead...

Cheers

[Edited 2007-11-08 21:11:47]

157 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKHI747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1617 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13950 times:

Sure it is very interesting actually.I always find it fascinating how EK has established itself down under in such a massive way without absolutely any O&D traffic to rely on (specially at the start).This is the magic of EK business model,the new king of connectivity-by leveraging its geographical location and virtually unlimited capital reserves.

Tell me something,specially since you are from Australia.What is the nature of the bulk of the traffic from Australia on EK.Is most of it bound for Europe (specially UK)? My personal opinion is :

1, Europe + North Africa
2, Increasing number to JFK
3, EK has created a new tourism market for Aussies and now an increasing number are coming to DXB.
4, Business traffic between Aus/NZ and GCC countries.

And i have no doubt that there is still plenty of room for them to grow in Australia and i have a feeling this will be at the expense of QANTAS and other European airlines that operate there.Once west coast flights to USA commence,it may even impact the US carriers there.

But the even more fascinating part is that they have barely begun to scratch the surface of huge markets like US and South America/Canada.I have no doubt they will replicate their success of Australia in those markets as well.


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2170 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13926 times:

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
I always find it fascinating how EK has established itself down under in such a massive way without absolutely any O&D traffic to rely on (specially at the start).This is the magic of EK business model,the new king of connectivity-by leveraging its geographical location and virtually unlimited capital reserve



Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
i have no doubt that there is still plenty of room for them to grow in Australia and i have a feeling this will be at the expense of QANTAS



Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
that they have barely begun to scratch the surface of huge markets like US and South America/Canada.I have no doubt they will replicate their success of Australia in those markets as well.

Not if the Canadian government has anything to do with it. Witness the latest air services agreement signed between Canada and Singapore and read up on EK's success getting into Canadian markets so far (just YYZ). There is a concerted effort to restrict the ability of carriers such as EK and SQ from doing in Canada exactly what they're doing in Australia, to the detriment of the local and other carriers. If you had a viable non-stop Australia - Europe fleet that could overfly the intermediate hubs like Dubai, you'd see the likes of EK retrenching significantly from the land down under. Similarly, non-stop fights between Canada and India would chill EK's desire to enter the major Canadian markets.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13456 posts, RR: 100
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 13531 times:
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Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):

Perhaps they want to increase MEL/PER/SYD to thrice daily...

They'd love to increase SYD, but slots have been an issue. I expect that to be rapidly up-gauged.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 2):
If you had a viable non-stop Australia - Europe fleet that could overfly the intermediate hubs like Dubai, you'd see the likes of EK retrenching significantly from the land down under.

Not really. There is a reason EK is CASM obsessed. Direct overflights will pull the most premium RASM. But they are always going to have a high CASM on that long of a run. No avoiding it.  Sad

What will keep EK alive is the fact that direct Australia to Europe can only be supported to a tiny number of city pairs. Thus the airlines will need to hub somewhere (a la jet in Brussels). Yes SYD and MEL to LHR is an obvious one. But other than that... we're talking at most 8 more city pairs.

What EK needs to do is continue filling out there route map and getting DXB to a "rolling hub" status. With enough flights per day to LHR, LGW, MAN, BOM, JNB, SYD, and NAY, they can get quite an effective hub going.

Yes, some countries are going to 'opt out' from various airlines hubs. That will hurt them in the long run. The reality is the mid-east hubs started off as a "LHR east" due to the limited slots and have since grown into something much more.

Yes EK will grow a lot on the kangaroo routes. But they will also grow on India to Europe/US and China to Africa. The last is pending a new bilateral that is under negotiation. Think of all the Chinese cities that are screaming for better conections: CTU, CKG, NKG, and probably six more that I've overlooked at being ready for faster connections. Not to mention the WSJ journal article on the absurd lack of seats between India and China.

I don't expect the EK and India to stop being their #1 and #2 destination any time soon. I do expect a lot of a.net threads on EK through!  Wink

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4835 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13411 times:

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
.What is the nature of the bulk of the traffic from Australia on EK.Is most of it bound for Europe (

EK's Australia bound traffic comes in bulk from :

1. LHR/LGW
2. MAN
3. ATH
4. BEY


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13365 times:

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 2):
Not if the Canadian government has anything to do with it. Witness the latest air services agreement signed between Canada and Singapore and read up on EK's success getting into Canadian markets so far (just YYZ). There is a concerted effort to restrict the ability of carriers such as EK and SQ from doing in Canada exactly what they're doing in Australia

Yep. Countries will not stand by and watch EK destroy their local carriers. Even Australia will slow down EK's growth if it is seen to damage QF in the long run. Right now, QF is buying planes and seems fine. But we'll see what the future brings. EK's expansion plan relies on the world laying down and allowing them to dominate. History doesn't favor this plan...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13296 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 4):
EK's Australia bound traffic comes in bulk from :

1. LHR/LGW
2. MAN
3. ATH
4. BEY

They'd be doing even better if they had a direct link to DUB ... now EY flies to DUB, so they're taking that business, with EY's n/s to SYD. EY's LF on DUB is over the 80% mark and you can be pretty sure they're not all getting off at AUH.

Incidentally, they're a very interesting article in this month's Aircraft Illustrated (just out today) on EK, including an interview with Tim Clark.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8458 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12932 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Where EK gets to Qantas and BA is the non-London regional cities traffic they can carry directly to Australia over Dubai. With all those flights to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, Birmingham, Dublin and others Emirates offers one-stop to any Aussie city.

User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11222 times:

Any chance that EK will start Adelaide when they have enough planes? Even a one-stop through either SIN or BKK. (ADL does not have non stops to BKK by any other carrier.) If the flight did a trans Tasman sector as well - ADL-AKL, it would give EK a bit of extra pocket money, and passengers would get a wide body plane for the trip.

User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11036 times:

Any hints of further expansion to NZ above the 3x daily DXB-AKL and 1x daily DXB-CHC? I tried to book on EK from AKL-MEL for about a week/ten day's time, and only Business Class seats were available. Is this typical?


This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10978 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Yep. Countries will not stand by and watch EK destroy their local carriers. Even Australia will slow down EK's growth if it is seen to damage QF in the long run. Right now, QF is buying planes and seems fine. But we'll see what the future brings. EK's expansion plan relies on the world laying down and allowing them to dominate. History doesn't favor this plan...

Does the USA have a bilateral with UAE? Will EK & EY flights be restricted to the USA like they are in Canada, or will it be an easy market to enter like Australia.

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
2, Increasing number to JFK

Anyone who would regularly fly Australia - JFK via DXB would be crazy. (With exception to people in PER) It would take so much more time by connecting in SFO or LAX.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10978 times:

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
2, Increasing number to JFK

Most people will pay the extra to go the short way.

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 8):
and passengers would get a wide body plane for the trip.

99 out of 100 people couldnt care what plane it was (widebody and narrowbody that is)

EK's BNE Summer services are booked full and so are some of their winter.

Personally I am not a big fan of EK. By destroying other Airlines they are also destroying thousands of jobs (this is also how I feel about LCC that overtake the market from a legacy carrier such as Ryanair and EI). I think that as soon as DXB oil starts to run out EK will not be able to support its operations as at the moment it gets much cheaper fuel. Carriers such as EY are the same, but they arent as rapid expanding as EK is.


User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10944 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 11):
Personally I am not a big fan of EK. By destroying other Airlines they are also destroying thousands of jobs (this is also how I feel about LCC that overtake the market from a legacy carrier such as Ryanair and EI). I think that as soon as DXB oil starts to run out EK will not be able to support its operations as at the moment it gets much cheaper fuel. Carriers such as EY are the same, but they arent as rapid expanding as EK is.

Or as soon as planes can go faster and longer and can bypass DXB...... but that might be 20 years away.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3335 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10850 times:

Announcement due on 20 Nov.

My guess.

double daily BNE
Triple daily MEL, with one service becoming A380
double daily A380 to SYD, with possible announcement on third frequency.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10741 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 13):
double daily BNE

Will EK eventually send A380's to BNE?


User currently offlineEvers From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10719 times:

great to see that EK is gonna be coming to BNE 2x Daily. might give me more motivation to get on a flight to DXB sometime :P

User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10635 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 14):
Will EK eventually send A380's to BNE?

Probably not... thats around 500 passengers per flight they'd have to fill up. Might be possible if they stay once daily. But double daily, unlikely.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17126 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10606 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 13):
double daily A380 to SYD, with possible announcement on third frequency.

I really doubt that EK will send 3 A380s to SYD everyday. To much capacity.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10585 times:

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 10):
Does the USA have a bilateral with UAE? Will EK & EY flights be restricted to the USA like they are in Canada, or will it be an easy market to enter like Australia.

No restrictions at all between the U.S. and U.A.E. They have Open Skies, and carriers from both countries are able to fly an unlimited number of flights and seats between them, not only non-stop, but via third points. So in a case where all three countries have Open Skies (for example, next spring U.S. and U.A.E. will have Open Skies with Spain), then there is virtually unlimited traffic rights via that third point. So, starting next summer, Emirates will have virtually unlimited access to the US-Spain market.



a.
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10467 times:

Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
Perhaps they want to increase MEL/PER/SYD to thrice daily...

EK is double daily to Perth.

It has been touted that Emirates would be the first airline to operate A380's to Perth but not for another 3 years or so.

So who knows, but not much they can do with Perth.



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5304 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10399 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):

I really doubt that EK will send 3 A380s to SYD everyday. To much capacity.

Are you serious? It is nearly impossible to get seats on EK out of sydney currently...

it is one route screaming out for a couple of A380's


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17126 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10399 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 20):
It is nearly impossible to get seats on EK out of sydney currently...

Is that true??? Then I has not noticed how big the demand is on this route.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10281 times:

Adelaide, Cairns and Darwin have gotta be in with a shot?

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2170 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10169 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
So, starting next summer, Emirates will have virtually unlimited access to the US-Spain market.

Hence my comment on reply #2. With new equipment and a reputation for exceptional onboard service, EK has most of the ingredients needed to maul the established US & Spanish carriers on these routes.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10073 times:

There was a lengthy piece on lateline business some months ago about EK's intention to increase frequency to all destinations. Will we see them add OOL as a seasonal service over the southern winter. Gold Coast is brimming with folk from the Emirates states over this time and maybe a response to Air Asia...?

QF is getting a beating at the moment...it really needs to do something and possibly the arrival of new aircraft will give it the opportunity to start to respond to the EK, SQ beating it is getting. My guess is EY and QF will code share before too long.



Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
25 Singapore_Air : From the figures that the Australian Government issues, that airline's market share (international) actually rose I think in the latest month that I
26 Threepoint : Leading to a what? Some might argue that widespread & varied foreign influence (from EK in this case) may not be so positive for some air carriers. I
27 TruemanQLD : Adelaide= Very possibly. Cairns and Darwin= keep dreaming for the next 5 years at least Almost definetly. The amount of UAE visitors to the Gold Coas
28 Antskip : That of course is quite incorrect. Maybe you should have a read of their annual accounts to check their expenditure on fuel. EK's business model neit
29 Bill142 : Not to mention that DXB has little oil to begin with.
30 Pellegrine : What does the bilateral say? Would it need to be renegotiated for EK to keep expanding in Australia? I find it odd the Australian Government will let
31 AKLDELNonstop : Could they add WLG along with either ADL/DRW/CNS? AFAIK EK dont fly to WLG
32 Singapore_Air : True, but this leads to a debate between the short-termist view and the long term. In the short term, economics would dictate that the companies / ai
33 Singapore_Air : Oh and I forgot this point, EK and Singapore Airlines hardly 'thrive' on capacity dumpting. In fact in the respect of Singapore Airlines, capacity ha
34 ANstar : Well.... JQ are due to receive 15 787-8's from the end of next year and most of them will be delivered within a 12 mon th time frame so I would expec
35 AA7295 : The US government really doesn't do anything to nurture and assist the legacy carriers... this is a perfect example. I'm intrigued, why does the USA
36 Post contains images Lightsaber : They won't be able to do SYD-LHR nonstop, and thus for networking and CASM will force the hubs to be very competitive with each other. Its going to b
37 Threepoint : I agree with your entire post, although I'd slip in a disclaimer that qualifies: ...considering that the US taxpayer has heaped upon them some high-pr
38 Post contains images Lightsaber : link? There was aid after 9/11, but lately? Trust me, they've long ago burned through the 9/11 aid. Lightsaber
39 Threepoint : That's what I was referring to. It wasn't an insignificant amount of money (hence the term heaped) and I'm sure they've long since spent it. My point
40 MAH4546 : Nor should they feel obligated too. It's a liberal marketplace. In the end, the consumers win. It's too bad more countries aren't so liberal about op
41 AA7295 : I completely agree, but only if all airlines are. It's not as if UAE has paid start-up costs to an airlines looking to serve the needs of the citizen
42 Fly2CHC : I don't really think A380 operating to Australia at some stage over the next few years qualifies as a major pending announcement. After all, this is p
43 Antskip : EK has no need of anyone's "limitless capital" - if such a thing ever existed. A cursory look at EK's annual accounts should help those who wish to b
44 AA7295 : Profitability wise yes. But their profitability does not fund the 55 A380's on order and a potential 100 787/350 order. It is the Emir of Dubai that
45 TruemanQLD : Most first-world countries airlines are profitable, of course except for the US They (USA) have so much to lose, and for the airlines that have grown
46 AA7295 : CO comes to mind. I guess we can add it to the endless list of stupid things the US government does. Hang on, add it to the list of stupid things the
47 Threepoint : I disagree. The role of government is NOT to prop up private businesses of any sort. The government is there to create and enforce if necessary the r
48 Post contains images QF175 : Yes, EK are building a brand new lounge at Brisbane International directly next to our new 2 A380 gates AFAIK, they also have exclusive rights for us
49 DavidByrne : Eh? Can you elaborate on that? I'm not aware of the USA handing over cabotage rights to anyone before.
50 Singapore_Air : I think Threepoint was being sarcastic.
51 AeroplaneFreak : EK will use the A380 to go to MEL and SYD. BNE maybe in the next few years. But you still have QF to go to BNE.
52 Koruman : Well, I am a Brisbane-based Business Class traveller and I have had the misfortune to fly Singapore Airlines Raffles Class on four flights in the las
53 Singapore_Air : The demise of Singapore Airlines commenceth.
54 Pilotdude09 : With regards to Perth could that not be extended on to AKL, would defintley shake up Air NZ a bit. DXB-PER-AKL? Personally i want to see Air NZ make
55 VHVXB : If this goes ahead particularly with MEL and SYD I would expect EK to time departures out of both cities during the afternoon (similar to Etihad). Al
56 CXfirst : Didn't EK ask the Australian and New Zealand government about this, and get a positive result from New Zealand, but a negative one from Australia? Do
57 Fly2CHC : If you want a really awesome Business Class experience out of Brisbane, you really must try Etihad! In my mind it is the best network wide J class pr
58 Aussie_ : I'm not sure what the current Australia-UAE bilateral says, but I know Australia currently has a policy in their air services negotiations to offer co
59 QANTAS077 : plenty the can do with Perth, after all PER is the only airport who's passenger growth has been in double digits this year alone. I think you'll find
60 Atmx2000 : I think the only effect on the US would be on traffic to South Asia, and South East Asia and Australia from the east coast. One World needs a southea
61 Threepoint : Gentlemen, have a check on that comment (reply #46). It was AA7295 who said it.
62 MilesDependent : PER-AKL would be a big investment in terms of aircraft. The flying time is, what, 8 hours each way. The current NZ tags are operated while the aircraf
63 Post contains links Aussie_ : Further to my previous post, the new UAE-Australia bilateral provides the following rights to and from Dubai (ie: excludes Etihad etc which is under a
64 ZK-NBT : Hmm well to throw in my 2cents worth. Since as Aussie_ said in reply 63 they can still only add 1 flight per year to the 4 major cities I think we mig
65 Koruman : Well, Singapore Air's comments reflect the complacency which has seen Singapore Airlines make a number of poor judgments about the Australian market
66 EmiratesUK : I've just flown the DXB-BNE sector and it was full... and I mean FULL in every class, not a single seat up for grabs and its like that for the next fe
67 QANTAS077 : lol...don't make me laugh, it will be in before the end of the decade! Perth is the fastest growing airport in the country and the simple fact is tha
68 EmiratesUK : You are correct, they don't use any A330 on the Oz/NZ routes...but I think we may see a DXB-SIN-DRW or CNS - WLG route with a A330 or even DXB-BKK-AD
69 Post contains images Lightsaber : Good to hear Perth is growing so fast. But to outgrow SYD? Wow! Why are seats so tough to get? Is Australia that under-served or is the economy growi
70 Post contains links QANTAS077 : are you contradicting a fact? ok its not as big as the Sydney market because the population is smaller, but the growth numbers are far and away beyon
71 Post contains images Lightsaber : Oops phrasing typo. I should have typed that would Perth have greater seat growth than SYD? Mea Culpa. It is intended as a question still. Lightsaber
72 ZK-NBT : Ok I may not be right of course but its my opinion. It's not meant to make you laugh but I'd have thought EK would go twice daily to BNE first and 3x
73 QANTAS077 : well it varies...they don't run by the schedule and more often than not the 77W does both flights. Perth will either get larger capacity aircraft or
74 Fly2CHC : Are you certain about that?
75 Alangirvan : If 77Ws can do SYD/MEL-DXB non stop, then replace the A345s on CHC-SYD-DXB and AKL-MEL-DXB.
76 ZK-NBT : Yes! Unless its changed recently.
77 Fly2CHC : I thought with open skies, any airline could fly between the two countries. If your point is true, then I guess only airlines of Australia and NZ qua
78 ANstar : UAE has open skies but Aus doesn't. Currently EK is limited into SYD/MEL/BNE & PER. The rest of the ports in AUS are not limited ie they could fly wh
79 TruemanQLD : No but to keep the economy strong they need to keep companies that have contributed billions to the US through taxes and through jobs. From what A.ne
80 Fly2CHC : There is an open skies agreement between NZ and Australia (across the Tasman)
81 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : Also Perth is already at its 'master plan' (if you could call it that!) 2020 predicted passenger numbers almost pusing the 2030 predicted passenger m
82 Fly2CHC : NZ and QF used to both operate B767s between PER and CHC. EK wouldn't do this however due to the time the aircraft would take to do PER-CHC-PER (can
83 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : Never knew that! Guess there was no money in it. Make it easier to get to Dunedin When did NZ and QF stop flying PER-CHC? Guess it would have been wi
84 Aussie_ : To get around the bilateral restrictions, EK could launch a daily flight to the Gold Coast, tapping into that booming growth market as well as picking
85 Dellatorre : Last I checked BNE is istill being flown via SIN, right?
86 QANTAS077 : NZ only flew to CHC from Perth and it was joint with QF using NZ aircraft, was during 89 that it commenced but it didn't last long,. BA used to do LH
87 Lufthansa : Korman, I'm suprised as another local and one who does more business class travelling then me, that you haven't noticed the huge Etihad billboards ou
88 Fly2CHC : QF had a weekly CHC-PER as well for some time. NZ's service went through to the early 90's. You were close with the BA route - LHR-MCT-SIN-PER-CHC ar
89 AA7295 : OOL is a low-cost carrier airport, much like Melbourne Avalon is. Plus the Immigration & Customs facilities at OOL isn't adequate enough to support s
90 QANTAS077 : no, I was spot on with my routing, I have it here in front of me in old BA time-tables. BA never served Australia from Muscat. The flight was BA 11 a
91 QANTAS077 : no, I was spot on with my routing, I have it here in front of me in old BA time-tables. BA never served Australia from Muscat. The flight was BA 11 a
92 Lufthansa : If it can handle an Air Asia X Airbus A333... why can't it handle an A345 in a 3 class thus lower passenger count config? Cargo...yes may be an issue
93 Pilotdude09 : Thanks. I knew BA operated AKL-PER but didnt know the full routing, flew BA AKL-PER in 1991 Business class, was under 5 at the time so dont remember
94 Koruman : The Gold Coast isn't just an inbound leisure destination: it serves an affluent population of 700,000 (500,000 in Queensland and 200,000 across the b
95 DavidByrne : Surely all these practicality issues are about to be resolved by Air Asia X?
96 TruemanQLD : Or go DXB-SIN-OOL-SYD-DXB Correct (unfortunately) Its good to finally have a good bussiness class at BNE Hardly comparable for UAE airline as there i
97 AA7295 : The runway is not long enough. Also, the airport is not large enough to house the infamous EK lounge and such. And given the $$$$ the UAE tourists br
98 DavidByrne : Sorry, but the logic of this escapes me. Is this a personal opinion, or is it a formally expressed state government policy? If opinion, you'll have t
99 Lufthansa : yes it is, it was just extended..... remember that a take off for SIN and DXB would be timed for about 8pm... in the evening when the air would not b
100 TruemanQLD : It can handle any A/C but an A380 Have you seen the amount of UAE tourists here during winter? They outnumber the locals! I think QLD government woul
101 6thfreedom : Not possible... To hit the departure bank, they would need to depart 0200 - 0300 DXB, which means arrival would be 0100... curfew at Sydney. If they
102 Pilotdude09 : Thats it, and there are bloody signs everywhere "Welcome people of the UAE" in shops etc.[Edited 2007-11-13 23:26:48]
103 AA7295 : I guess time will tell. Politics and economics will come into the decision to let EK into OOL. I work for a QLD government owned corporation that dea
104 Fly2CHC : I would operate the following: Daily dep DXB 2245 arr SYD 1940; and then return the same aircraft on the existing non-stop pattern: Daily dep SYD 214
105 6thfreedom : This would be a hard sell for such a short sector... Better option would be to push DXB-MEL back by 60 mins or so, then provide a slightly longer lay
106 DavidByrne : Don't want to quibble, but Fly2CHC was correct. My December 1986 OAG shows LHR-MCT-SIN-PER-CHC-AKL, arriving 0725 on a Friday. Don't know how long th
107 Lufthansa : Okay well firstly I think the tradecoast project will have little to do with EK entering OOL, simply because its completely unrelated. Get on EK's we
108 Aussie_ : I flew BA ex ADL to LHR and we stopped in MCT as one of the stops enroute. It's in my logbook and confirmed.
109 Alangirvan : I was in a BA plane that stopped in Muscat on the way from Australia in 1984 ( perhaps 1984 is so long ago it counts as 'never'). Those were miserabl
110 Fly2CHC : Please see the numerous confirmations of my statement above. Please check your QF schedules for late 80s/early 90s.
111 EmiratesUK : I recall reading somewhere about 12mths ago that Tim Clark wanted to have a third daily non stop service leaving early in the morning to pick up the
112 Fly2CHC : That would make sense too, although the aircraft would have a fair amount of downtime. The only problem with that is that passengers wouldn't be happ
113 EmiratesUK : No more than the EK 773 service that arrives in to MEL around 01:00 and sits on the ground until it departs for SIN around 18:00 There are a few aril
114 6thfreedom : except for the fact that they can't get out at 5am due to curfew... earliest would be 6am, which means they miss the westbound departure bank. EK did
115 TruemanQLD : Can CHC handle an A380 But hardly as much as some other EK a/c
116 Jamie86 : I heard a rumour that Emirates is planning to open a base in SYD early next year. Has anyone else heard this?
117 Fly2CHC : Precisely - both sectors were subsequently dropped. I had heard it is going to be AKL. Hence the earlier DAE bid for AKL Airport. Also, given the tra
118 NZ107 : It kind of depends on what you mean by handle. They will be making gates as part of their redoing of the international terminal to be able to handle
119 6thfreedom : Not quite... EK still operates MEL-AKL daily, with A345. CHC was changed from MEL to SYD.
120 Fly2CHC : EK404/5 no longer operates MEL/AKL EK do not operate the sector MEL/CHC at all now. Both sectors were therefore dropped.
121 Antskip : Each day EK404 flies in from SIN/DXB, EK406 flies in from DXB and then onto AKL, EK407 flies in from AKL and onto DXB, and EK405 flies out to SIN/DXB
122 6thfreedom : MTWTFSS 8:10a MEL 2 1:40p AKL I EK 406 Non-stop 345 3:30 MTWTFSS 6:50p AKL I 8:50p MEL 2 EK 407 Non-stop 345 4:00 Please don't come back with a comme
123 NZ107 : Both statements are correct. EK 404/5 (773) used to continue on to AKL, they have since dropped this; it now has a routing DXB-SIN-MEL. EK 406/7 (A34
124 Koruman : Too right, unfortunately. I live in one of those suburbs, and fly internationally at least half a dozen times each year. After the holocaust which wa
125 6thfreedom : So are you trying to say that a change of flight number and aircraft type between MEL and AKL is considered a 'dropped' service? Given that from the
126 Fly2CHC : For goodness sake...why don't you have a look at the issue as it was originally posted. The DXB-SIN-MEL-SIN-DXB flight (i.e. EK404/405) dropped the e
127 AA7295 : While OOL is a viable domestic airport, I'm pretty certain you won't see JL and other carriers at OOL. Particularly that the Gold Coast is not the on
128 Alangirvan : Norman Geary, who turned AirNZ around after the traumas of the late 70s/early 80s said that it was up to an airline of AirNZ's size to take a precisi
129 TruemanQLD : Yes but with a 744 I dont see it happening. Maybe a 787 in 5 years or so. A 744 can land at OOL but I think there would be payload issues as well as
130 Sparklehorse12 : I am almost convinced that EK and EY will service OOL on a seasonal basis. They would have to build some kind of lounge but the very wealthy Emirates
131 Koruman : Actually, wrong. Hardly any of the inbound passengers to LAX are going to Long Beach. Over 90% of the Japanese passengers arriving at BNE are actuall
132 DavidByrne : While the discussion about OOL has strayed a distance from the thread of Emirates' expansion plans, it has nevertheless exposed an interesting aspect
133 Alangirvan : Even if there are payload issues - in the past JAL and Ansett and ANA have operated Japan-BNE-SYD-Japan. If JAL does operate 747s they will be the ol
134 DavidByrne : Actually, on reflection, there is a real Emirates angle here. Persistent rumours over the years have Emirates intending to operate out of AKL to Nort
135 6thfreedom : There have been rumours of EK operating round the world. With aircraft operating DXB-LAX/SFO-AKL-Australia, and aircraft operating Australia-AKL-USA-
136 Antskip : The only scenario in which EK would do that is if the Australian government continues indefinitely to persist in having a closed-sky to the US for ai
137 DavidByrne : I agree absolutely. But right now they don't have the rights to fly Australia-USA, and it's not at all clear that they will get them any time soon. S
138 Fly2CHC : That's a very bold statement given that both EK Presidents have come out publicly and said that AKL will be a hub in the near future. By the end of 2
139 6thfreedom : I suspect even more unlikely under a Rudd Labour Government.
140 Antskip : They have also come out denying it - I would think the ownership of AKL might also have a bearing on EK's plans in respect of AKL. The more important
141 AA7295 : This is the complete opposite. The Asian tourists are the ones that don't want to stay in Brisbane, not the North American tourists. The North Americ
142 QANTAS077 : what do you think I checked? I have schedules from 87-2000 and Per-Chc-Per was joint flight with Air NZ using Air NZ aircraft, do you want me to phot
143 Fly2CHC : Were these the same timetables which showed that there was no BA LHR-MCT-SIN-PER-CHC-AKL service despite the fact that numerous people in this thread
144 DavidByrne : C'mon guys . . . enough! Actually, now that I know QANTAS077 has schedules from 1987-2000, he may be able to help me reconstruct part of my flight hi
145 6thfreedom : Folks, EK is making a major annoucement on Australian ops right about now. Does anyone have the inside word. As I've said previously, I think 14 to BN
146 Post contains links QF175 : Emirates Announces Extra Flights 2008 Extra daily BNE service with A340-500 (nonstop) 2009 Extra daily SYD - so 3x daily services - A380 operating sel
147 Post contains images ANstar : Yeah it will be non stop.... would also love to see them do ADL/CNS soon Please EK!
148 Antskip : will the extra flights return home the way they came, or pop over to New Zealand before returning to their respective Australian ports, and then home
149 QANTAS077 : you obviously didn't note the time frame of MCT-Australia? 86, If I had one that went that far back then I'd be able to confirm it..I don't, but I do
150 DavidByrne : Thanks
151 Alangirvan : Is there any reason why EK maintains the stops in SIN or BKK on some flights between SYD/MEL/BNE and DXB? 777-300ERs have the range to do Australian E
152 6thfreedom : I think it allows them to tap into an additional market, and also allows to better balance seasonality. I understand that SIN is a bit harder to fill
153 VHVXB : Currnently both MEL and BNE are served by EK using 773A. The 77W has capable range but is restricted out of DXB due to heat issue (for 8 months) and
154 Alangirvan : Yes, OK A346 is the plane in your announcement of the new Etihad flights. So, now all we have to wait for is Qatar to announce their Australian servic
155 Antskip : I am pretty sure that the direct flights MEL-DXB use the A345 exclusively. Using the B777 via SIN makes sense - it has double the cattle-class capaci
156 Kaitak : The nonstops to MEL (and SYD) are operated exclusively by the A345 (although I wonder, given the benefits of commonality, if they'll ultimately switc
157 VHVXB : Yes you are right but for a 77W to fly direct there would restrictions placed on it Indeed They 77L should have no problems especially with a full pa
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