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Make Up Of Business Travellers Using C Class  
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2813 times:

I am always amazed that often higher management and even executives travel in Y class or on LCCs as a cost saving measure yet lower management and middle management book expensive C tickets.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2365 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
I am always amazed that often higher management and even executives travel in Y class or on LCCs as a cost saving measure yet lower management and middle management book expensive C tickets

That's because higher management look at the company's bottom line, whereas lower and middle management think because their title is VP then they should be entitled to C class.


User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

My dad (who flies alot for work) listens to my opinions on who to fly and the reasons behind them (thank you everyone on A.net!). It was reinforced by his last trip (to Milan) where I told him that the best way would probably be U2 from BRS as even though it is an LCC, the service is reasonable and the crews are usually excellent - plus the airport is only 1hr 20mins from where we live. Going against this, he lumped for AZ in C from LHR. You can guess what he told me on the way back: LHR is too far away, it is a complete mess, AZ is a complete shambles (the cabin crew stayed behind the curtain in the galley the entire time even though the flight was at 10 am), the plane was dirty and the flight delayed for 2 hours. I thought to myself "Either AZ was on an off day or it really is that bad". Anywho I have booked us all on a trip to the channel islands in december. EXT - GCI - JER (BE) JER - GCI - LGW (Aurigny) LGW - BRS - PLH (WOW). It was more expensive and takes much much longer, but this way I get to bring my years total number of flights to 11.

[Edited 2007-11-09 13:09:14]


AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Im appalled by the 'wastage' of some businessmen, particularly those who work in the public sector or providing a service. They should be prepared to travel on the cheapest available fare, as their superiors seem more than willing to do. If a company Executive can travel Y class then why cant a lowly salesmen or junior management?

User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

First, most companies get 40-50% the listed business class fare. Second, sitting in Y, especially on a regular basis has a high toll on productivity and employee satisfaction that significantly outweighs any cost savings between Y and C. Any exec flying in Y is probably flying domestically, I've never seen any executive in my experience fly Y internationally.

User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Many of our politicians and top businessmen do travel in Y on short haul routes as a way of demonstrating that they take their expenses seriously and the impact they can have on the consumer. I have upmost admiration for such people and they are setting an example that their lesser employees should take note of.

User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 4):
I've never seen any executive in my experience fly Y internationally.

Some very respectable companies (e.g. Cisco) won't pay C class for anybody regardless of the duration of thr flight while others (most financial institutes included) will pay C on international trips for every employee.
It's all about corporate culture and management phillosophy.

DT


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2043 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Interesting topic. On that I wanted to compare the corporate rate C class fares on the A380 vs. the 744 (on SQ). I was quoted roughly SGD3,700 for SIN-MEL (773) and SYD-SIN (744) (MEL-SYD was separate) and I was quoted SGD4,400 for SIN-MEL (744) and SYD-SIN (A380), which is only a SGD700 premium, and, IMHO, still quite cheap to fly the A380!

FYI, I am in a so-called "graduate program," ie. a fast-track to management. I'm 23yo.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | QF SYD-DFW | AA DFW-TLH-MIA-DFW | QF DFW-SYD
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2043 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 6):
Some very respectable companies (e.g. Cisco) won't pay C class for anybody regardless of the duration of thr flight while others (most financial institutes included) will pay C on international trips for every employee.
It's all about corporate culture and management phillosophy.

DT

Fair enough, but if the Asia CEO/CFO based in HGK/SIN had an early morning meeting in Silicon Valley, how do you think that person will perform after +15hrs on a plane in Y?

Thanks for the insider, though. I will not be applying to Cisco any time soon.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | QF SYD-DFW | AA DFW-TLH-MIA-DFW | QF DFW-SYD
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2618 times:

Yeah and then these 'companies' can pay huge expenses for luxury suites in F class and the consumers of their products and services pay the price. Its becoming more unacceptable and expenses are being monitored now in lots of UK companies.

User currently offlineSteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 6):
Some very respectable companies (e.g. Cisco) won't pay C class for anybody

A few years ago, I did some consulting for Cisco, and I know that's not true in practice - even though I also know the CEO makes a big thing of flying in coach (fool). There are ways around policies.

To be honest, if employees taking Y class rather than C or J is the difference between profitability and loss making (or makes a significant difference to profitability) for a multinational, then the business model has some fundamental flaws.

Equally, if the value of employees marginal lost productivity does not exceed the difference in C/J and Y class fares, you've got to wonder whether your job is worthwhile.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2579 times:

I loved looking up Mileage Plus members and checking out their recent trips and what fares they were ticketed in. John Kerry, for example, only flew full fare F (on the Senate travel spending allowance). Whereas Dick Lugar (IN R.) only flew the cheapest available fare, on the SAME spending budget.


Al Gore invented global warming.
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

The days of suites in hotel rooms, first class flights, extravagant room service and 'girls' all being added to business 'expenses' is over, thank goodness for the public. Many companies here are public companies, civil servants getting paid out of the public purse too.

User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5695 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2542 times:
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Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
I am always amazed that often higher management and even executives travel in Y class

The lower/middle management often travel much more than the senior management and it is one of the few perks. Senior management often get their benefits in other ways.
I worked for a company based in Louisville CO, here in Sydney, Australia the team often flew domestically and always in Y.
Almost all the international travel was between SYD & DEN 16-17 hours + stops, almost always with meetings soon after arrival. Travel in C was a nice touch but it didn't last. Why, because the folks in the US abused the system and flew F when going to Phoenix or Dallas etc so there was a corporate decision that there be no F or C travel whatever the distance.
If you think I am picking on our American friends I am not, travelling to MEL we had the use of a car and driver from the airport to the office for the same price as a cab,often less($45), it was nice to be met and not have to queue for a taxi.. but hell the local guys spoiled that as well by using the same fixed price service to cross town when a $10 cab ride would have done the trick.
Another company had a rule on flights over 8 hrs,HQ dictated 10+ but that meant SIN & HKG were Y so local management fought that one, if company training etc then Y, If for customer meetings then C. made sense to me.

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 1):
That's because higher management look at the company's bottom line, whereas lower and middle management think because their title is VP then they should be entitled to C class.

But then also the CEO probably has a good job, retirement plan, ect and some are just waiting to leave. Those VP's and middle men may not have such good company benefits and be more willing to switch from company A to company B because company B pays for first class travel and company A will only put them in Y.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8528 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 4):
Second, sitting in Y, especially on a regular basis has a high toll on productivity and employee satisfaction that significantly outweighs any cost savings between Y

Bingo. I have known people who make $40,000 who easily rack up $100,000 in C-class fares per year.

Why doesn't the company put them in coach? Because they would get tired of the road and quit. Then the company is screwed.

Why not just pay the employee a higher salary? Then they would have to pay EVERYBODY in their org more money. That's a big loser.

So middle grade employees generally always travel in C! Otherwise, they just start hating their job and quit. With CEOs, they won't quit because of their thrilling job and huge salary, most likely. So of course they can travel in Y, and stay happy. It's unfair to suggest that peons would be equally happy.


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2496 times:

What else to make them 'comfortable' a top suite in the hotel, hot and cold running call girlies etc, all being added to expense claims under 'sundries' junior management should be made to travel on ther cheapest available fare to benefit their company, fellow employees, and their customers, thats us, the public!

User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 6):

But I am almost certain that a company like Cisco pays for full fare Y which would make it free and easy for the travelers to upgrade on most airlines.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 3):
They should be prepared to travel on the cheapest available fare, as their superiors seem more than willing to do. If a company Executive can travel Y class then why cant a lowly salesmen or junior management?

In certain cases, and dependant upon fare type availability, you'll find that travelling in the C-class cabin will in fact actaully be less expensive than travelling in the Y-class cabin. The reason for this, is that airlines often offer "restricted" business class fares with limited flexibility (fee to change date/time/route eyc.) but entitle the holder of the ticket to all the perks of C-class, ie separate cabin, lounge access etc etc.

On the other hand a fully flexible, all singing all dancing, Y-class ticket will be more expensive but can be changed, transferred to another carrier, fully refunded etc without any additional costs or penalties. Ultimately, the holders of such documents were referred to as SFU (Suitable for Upgrade) as far as any carrier I worked for in the past anyway, and as such may very well end up sitting in C-class in order to facilitate any overbooking "down the back".

Just because you're seat is in C, doesn't mean that you've paid the most money.

Edit for typo.

[Edited 2007-11-09 15:40:14]


Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 3):
If a company Executive can travel Y class then why cant a lowly salesmen or junior management?

Because this "lowly salesman" is expected

a) to work on the plane and
b) be prepared to go to meetings straight off the plane.

No way can I achieve either on a 5, 6, 11 hour (sometime much longer - try NCE-FRA-NRT-HNL as a commute !) trip that inevitably involves a connection. It is a practical necessity to have the space and amenities to work and sleep on the plane. This is not just me ego-tripping, either - ask anyone who travels regularly for work.

Sounds to me like someone is a little bitter - get yourself a job that involves travel, and tell me how much fun you have down the back.


User currently offlineCygnusChicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

My Firm has a policy of travel in C if the flight is four hours or more, and it is pure business travel, i.e., training, etc, doesn't count. Of course, often on shorter flights I may be on a Y up, and end up in C all the same. However, I don't really see the benefit of paying for C on short flights. Grab an exit row seat, and I always have enough room to get work done.


If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
User currently offlineLeonB1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Nobody has even mentioned all the firms that either charter, fractionally own, or operate their own private jets!  Wink

User currently offlineQFFlyer From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2265 times:

This year I have done 3 trips SYD-LHR-CDG-NTE, 2 x in Y, 1 x in J.
The first 2 trips I arrived back in SYD wrecked and could not operate fully for about 2 weeks afterwards. When I travelled J, I arrived into SYD early in the morning and was able to do a full days work, and had no effects after that.
It is all very well to say have a few days off to recover or have a comfortable hotel, but when work is piling up in the office, the ability to go straight to work is very important.

Cheers


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3230 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2077 times:

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 6):
Some very respectable companies (e.g. Cisco) won't pay C class for anybody regardless of the duration of thr flight while others (most financial institutes included) will pay C on international trips for every employee.
It's all about corporate culture and management phillosophy.

It's not just Cisco - even Google - the darling of the stock markets - has everyone flying in Y (except of course if you manage to board the corporate jets  Smile)



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3994 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2015 times:
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Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 21):
Nobody has even mentioned all the firms that either charter, fractionally own, or operate their own private jets!

Sshhhhh I don't think my employer wants always-fly-in-coach Cisco to know us lowly contractors fly the company plane to meetings in San Jose, at Cisco's expense.



I've got $h*t to do
25 787KQ : This thread is crap. Most companies have corporate travel policies that govern travel. In instances where business class is available for the lowly sa
26 PresRDC : Our policy (Fortune 50 industrlai conglomerate with several aerospace subsidiaries) flies everyone in C on international flights over 2500 miles. Our
27 TheDiplomat : Fully agree - Corporate travel isnt sexy, its part of life. I am fortunate to work for a company with a sensible business travel policy, based on dur
28 Post contains images JGPH1A : Does Mr. Bestwestern know about this ? You dog, you
29 A340600 : Another day, another thread from Mr Daily Mail and his broad statements. Facts? Fact? Most business travellers have little time to enjoy any of the pe
30 Caspritz78 : Most companies I know have a rule concerning how long a flight is. If it is below 4 hours you fly Y if it is above you get C. I think it is nothing wr
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