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Lied To By Gate/ticketing Agents  
User currently offlineRemcor From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 358 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11827 times:

A couple weeks ago I was flying UA SAN->SFO->HKG but ended up missing my connection at SFO because of a delay at SAN. At SAN they repeatedly said that the delay was caused by an ATC problem in San Francisco. When we arrived at SFO the ticketing agent told us that the delay was some because of vague "problem with the air" in San Diego. Then, almost immediately after she told me this her supervisor walks by, looks at the computer screen that the ticketing agent was working on, reads it, and says "oh, these are the guys on the plane with the _crew_ problem". I caught it right away and pointed at the ticketing agent and said "It's a crew problem, you lied to us!" (I smiled when I said it, but I was angry). She just stayed quiet, knowing that she just got caught.

Because we caught this they put on the next CX flight to HKG. Obviously if it's an ATC problem or a 'problem with the air' they could claim it's not their fault and put us on the next UA flight 24 hours later, a crew problem is UA's fault and they'd be forced to put us on the next available flight to HKG regardless of the airline. We were lied to both in SAN and SFO.

My question is, has it become policy to blatantly lie to the passengers as to the cause of a flight delay?

82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11817 times:

Quoting Remcor (Thread starter):
It's a crew problem, you lied to us!"

With all due respect, Gate agents only know what the problem might be when the dispatch people tell them or when they see a new update in the system . Many gate agents are poorly paid and have no prior airline experience and many typically couldn't tell the difference between an APU and a service cart.

The only sinister "lie" at work here is that you assumed the gate agent is actually knew what was going on. Many times dispatch is too busy to update the Flifo, and so the gate agents are just as clueless as the passengers.


User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11795 times:

The supervisor really put the ticket agent on the spot there. She should have kept her mouth shut.
Were you, perchance, flying out of SAN when the wildfires were raging big time there? Perhaps there were issues with smoke in the area.
And as for them lying to you...don't take it too personally. It happens every day of the year at any given airline, and at any given airport.
Regards.



"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineRemcor From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11760 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 1):

With all due respect, Gate agents only know what the problem might be when the dispatch people tell them or when they see a new update in the system . Many gate agents are poorly paid and have no prior airline experience and many typically couldn't tell the difference between an APU and a service cart.

All I know is that both the agent and the supervisor looked at the same computer screen. The agent first said that it was a problem that was not their fault, the supervisor then looked at that same computer screen shortly thereafter and read that it was a problem that was their fault. Plus, when I called the agent on her lie she didn't deny she was lying to us or offer any explanation.

I don't think I was being an ass about he situation, I think anyone could reasonably conclude that someone was deliberately not telling us the truth - especially when doing so would be financially advantageous to UA. I tried not to be rude to the agent as well: I smiled, called her by her first name, told her it wasn't her fault that we were upset.

Yes, the fires were burning earlier in the week, but the airport was operating just fine - we were the only flight in the concourse with a delay that I noticed.

[Edited 2007-11-12 06:15:40]

User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11688 times:

Quoting Remcor (Reply 3):
I don't think I was being an ass about he situation

I don't think you were either, but 90% chance that Gate agent didn't know what the problem really was.


User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11674 times:

Happens all the time, I've seen it countless times at DUB


John Hancock
User currently offlineNA747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11623 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 1):
Many times dispatch is too busy to update the Flifo, and so the gate agents are just as clueless as the passengers.

This is true. I can attest to that.
However, there is no reason why an employee should lie if they actually know the truth, no matter how bad the truth is.


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11609 times:

Quoting Remcor (Thread starter):
My question is, has it become policy to blatantly lie to the passengers as to the cause of a flight delay?

The agents normally do not really know what the reason for the delay is. Sometimes we do not even tell them in order not to talk nonsense to passengers. However saying that someone lied to you is a bit of a over reaction. I am sure the lady behind her computer was not really in the mood to start a discussion with you.

Furthermore it easily possible that they lost their slot at SAN because of the crew problem. One should thing of other possibilities before accusing someone of lying.

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
The supervisor really put the ticket agent on the spot there

That is true. I have never done that nor will I ever do that. That is really really bad by the supervisor.


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11568 times:

Quoting NA747 (Reply 6):
no matter how bad the truth is.

agreed, or just say they don't know.

Not too long ago I actually was able to give some F9 gate agents more info from flightaware then their own system.

I was using my laptop with a wireless connection when I noticed our inbound flight was doing a holding pattern 60 miles SE of Denver due to a small localized thunderstorm that had moved over the field very quickly.

The Gate Agents had told everyone the plane was "in range" and would be at the gate in 15 min.

I showed them the Flightaware (which is delayed information and not even all that accurate) and they said "We wish we had something like that".

Of course the plane pulled up to the gate 50 min later not 15 minutes later as the agents had announced to everyone. Where they lying? no, they only knew that when the "in range" status was displayed it is typically 15 minutes or so.

They weren't trying to mislead or lie, they just didn't have the information they needed.


User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11525 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 8):
They weren't trying to mislead or lie, they just didn't have the information they needed.

If they don't have the information but they say it's going to be 15 minutes then yes it is a lie.



John Hancock
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11500 times:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 9):
If they don't have the information but they say it's going to be 15 minutes then yes it is a lie.

if they are trained that "in range" means the plane is 15 minutes from the gate, how is that a lie?

Misinformed ? Yes. A lie, no, just no real data to make a "smart" analysis of the situation.

If you tell someone you are meeting across town that you will be there in 20 minutes because you have done the drive hundreds of time, but on the way there is a bad accident and it takes you 45 minutes, does that make you a liar?


User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11471 times:

nope but if "in range" has never been 15 minutes you should get the picture.


John Hancock
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11459 times:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 11):
nope but if "in range" has never been 15 minutes you should get the picture

it usually is at DEN. Do not confuse under-informed or under-educated with deceit. These people work their butts off and get abused daily.


User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11371 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 7):
The agents normally do not really know what the reason for the delay is. Sometimes we do not even tell them in order not to talk nonsense to passengers. However saying that someone lied to you is a bit of a over reaction. I am sure the lady behind her computer was not really in the mood to start a discussion with you.

Furthermore it easily possible that they lost their slot at SAN because of the crew problem. One should thing of other possibilities before accusing someone of lying.

This is complete BS and why alot of people hate flying anymore. The agents are there to HELP customers, which means there should be enough shared info within the company so they do know exactly why a flight is delayed. There was no overraction in calling the agent a liar. If he/she didn't know what the delay was, he/she should have said so and found out about it. Thats what they are paid to do. To say something else that he/she knew wasn't the reason was a lie, plain and simple. And if the agent just wasn't in the mood to get into a conversation to help a customer, than he/she really does need to be replaced with a touchscreen computer that just spits out boarding passes.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11308 times:

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 13):
This is complete BS and why alot of people hate flying anymore.

Can you please clarify what you mean with that?

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 13):
The agents are there to HELP customers, which means there should be enough shared info within the company so they do know exactly why a flight is delayed.

Yes they are but too much information is not good either! We give (sometimes) only the minimum of information to the agents and it should only be told just as we tell them. If they want to know more.... that is why supervisor Dutyofficers and managers are there for.

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 13):
There was no overreaction in calling the agent a liar. If he/she didn't know what the delay was, he/she should have said so and found out about it. Thats what they are paid to do. To say something else that he/she knew wasn't the reason was a lie, plain and simple.

She obviously said what she knew. If I see that my aircraft is late because of ATC I say so. You don´t know if she was aware of some crew (scheduling??) problems. So we cannot know if it was a lie or not.

BTW If the employees ever start complaining about customers lying to them we would not even know where to start. But we do not do that!

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 13):
And if the agent just wasn't in the mood to get into a conversation to help a customer, than he/she really does need to be replaced with a touchscreen computer that just spits out boarding passes.

I have had many even uncountable passengers who like to go through useless discussions which has nothing to do with the actual reason why the aircraft is delayed or not.

Read through what the Thread starter wrote:

Quoting Remcor (Thread starter):
She just stayed quiet, knowing that she just got caught.

I was refering to that not if she wanted to discuss with Remcor or not.


I still believe that it was not correct to tell the agent that she was a liar. But that´s my 2 cents.


User currently offlineBistro1200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11249 times:

If there is one thing that airlines have yet to accomplish, it's an easy way to answer the question, "Where is the airplane?" In some ways we have more tools available than ever (FlightAware, PASSUR, Flight Explorer), but the amount of info that Customer Contact people have is the same as when GDS's first came out in the 1970's.

There is no easy way to transfer what a dispatcher or station ops person sees using the above tools to an Apollo/Sabre/Amadeus/System One reservation system. Some airlines use ACARS to give accurate times, and I know that during airborne delays UA sends a message to update FLIFO with the estimated "ON" time after holding. But, that usually occurs close to the destination, when most people are already at the airport for the outbound leg.

I really don't think that most agents LIE in the strict sense of the word. Looking here ( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie ), the key is on *INTENT TO DECEIVE* and I don't think agents have that kind of mindset. This implies knowing the truth, and masking the truth for personal gain. Besides, any compensation doesn't come out of their pockets, why would the agent care if you receive compensation, as far as it being a cost to the company or not? The way that most agents have seen their salaries cut and benefits slashed, there is little incentive to try and "save a buck for the company" out there. Most simply read the screen, find the delay code, and if it is one that is eligible for compensation, then they grant it. I don't believe they are thinking, "Ooh, one more denied claim and I get a free toaster".

Finally delay codes are very fluid and other than ATC, can be a very subjective issue. Suppose a flight takes a 30 minute maintenance delay, and in that time the destination airport receives a ground delay program. Now the flight has a wheels up time in 90 minutes. If the original delay would not have occurred, would the flight have departed on-time and not been subject to the GDP? Would the flight have held in the air instead? Should maintenance receive the entire 120 minute delay? Is it the airline's fault (the original 30 minutes yes, but what about the remaining 90)?



Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11213 times:

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 15):
If there is one thing that airlines have yet to accomplish, it's an easy way to answer the question, "Where is the airplane?"

I agree with you! This spring we had a horrible storm with a !complete poweroutage! at the airport resulting in a airport closure. I was looking at the screens in order to see whether it was in approach or even had landed. I saw it was in holding and I was waiting and waiting for about 25 minutes with more and more aircrafts coming in. Finally I was investigating because at this time the aircraft had only the minimum cerosin left. By looking on the monitors I could see the aircaft still in the hold when I received a call by the operating captain that he had landed the aircraft 200km away because of low fuel.  Smile


User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11180 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 14):
Can you please clarify what you mean with that?

I meant your statement was BS...like a copout.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 14):
Yes they are but too much information is not good either! We give (sometimes) only the minimum of information to the agents and it should only be told just as we tell them. If they want to know more.... that is why supervisor Dutyofficers and managers are there for.

Again, i gotta call BS and say again that this is a problem with airlines. There is a reason why flights run late, but paying pax are depending on those schedules for connections, etc. Tell them what the delay is...simple as that. If "too much info" involves some sensitive secuirty info, I can understand that. Perhaps gate agents need more training about the field they're in so they can make more qualified statment about situations instead of second hand info that just given on a need to know basis. They do need to know!

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 14):
She obviously said what she knew.

LOL...."something wrong with the air" doesn't sound to me like she knew what she was talking about.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 14):
BTW If the employees ever start complaining about customers lying to them we would not even know where to start. But we do not do that!

Point taken...but they are the customer! We get paid to serve them, no matter how stupid they can be. And trust me, I know a lot of pax seem to literally lose their minds once they set foot in an airport.

I used to throw bags for 5 years and was the ramp sup and load agent for the last 2 of those 5 years. I got to see and make alot of the operational decisions. But I've also seen gate agents rountinely give bad info to pax just to get them out of their faces or because they really had no idea what they were talking about. And in my opinion, thats poor service to the customer. Some pax are seasoned fliers and they are not as naive as some people think. They know when someone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes which is insulting.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11063 times:

I have been lied to or heard about lies told to passengers at gates many times.

Air Canada has been accused of cancelling their shuttle (YYZ-YUL) due to poor load and simply putting all the passengers on the next scheduled shuttle, sighting "mechanical problems."

A few years ago Varig lied to us about the estimated departure of a Sao Paulo - LAX flight repeatedly until all the other airlines we could have been transferred to had departed, and then we were finally told that the inbound A/C was actually 6 hours late. We were lied to by the airline and as a result had to spend a night in the gate area.

Air Canada delayed a San Fran departure to YYZ I was on, sighting "a mechanical inspection that needs to be done every 48 hours, so there's really nothing we can do..." but they failed to apologise or take responsibility with regard to why the inspection had not been done on time in order for our flight to depart on time. In other words, they inferred that the delay was routine and unavoidable, and denied accountability, which is a lie.

Travelling YYZ-YXU on Air Canada's commuter service; a 35 minute flight was delayed several hours sighting "weather," long after the weather had past, however I overheard the ground and gate crew commenting on how they just didn't have the ground staff to process all the departures that were waiting to go, and they obviously didn't have the staff to call in for mandatory overtime, or were unwilling to do so. This was during the post-911 turn down when airlines were slashing jobs, so apparently the jobs were not getting done.

I have often been lied to about seat selection. After making attempts to get seats on line, at check-in, at the gate, and being told along the way thats seat selection would be available at each of these next checkpoints, I finally found that there WERE seats where I wanted to sit and when I moved there on my own accord, no one showed up with boarding passes to claim the seat I was "squatting" in. I can understand (to a point) that airlines use seating restrictions to reward passengers for paying higher fares, or penalise those who do not, but they do so in a clandestine and dishonest way.

Also - it's clear that the marketing departments of airlines are completely deceitful in terms of the redeamability of frequent flier points. Invariably I go through a great deal of frustration trying to redeem points because there is seldom if ever availability without having to shell out many more points than the advertised minimum due to artificial capacity restriction. Airlines are solving this problem (for themselves) by making F.F. points expire sooner. In addition, I am now paying upwards of $150 in charges for "free" seats on Air Canada...

Um... OK, SOMEBODY got out of the wrong side of bed today...



I come in peace
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10927 times:

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 15):
There is no easy way to transfer what a dispatcher or station ops person sees using the above tools to an Apollo/Sabre/Amadeus/System One reservation system.

Yes there is - at least to Amadeus anyway. Airlines using 1A for Res send us MVT messages (FLIFO messages) that update the system in realtime and are visible to anyone using the system. These include all the estimate departure, reason for delay, actual off blocks, actual airborne, ETA, touchdown and on blocks times. e.g.

DOSA261/11NOV
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * SA 261 -1 SU 11NOV
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
FRA LEFT THE GATE 2100
TOOK OFF 2115
PASSENGERS ON BOARD (279)
PLANE IS LATE (IN HOURS MINUTES) 0002
LATE ARRIVAL OF AIRCRAFT
PLANE IS LATE (IN HOURS MINUTES) 0013
CHECK IN ERROR
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 0826 JNB
JNB AIRCRAFT LANDED 0831
ARRIVED 0840

* 1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO * SA 261 -1 SU 11NOV
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
FRA 2045 SU CJZDEIRYBMK/DB 346 10:45
HSQTVLWGXN/DB
JNB 0830 MO 10:45

This info is made available in realtime as received, so provided the Flight Operations system is kept up to date and sends these MVT/DIV messages to the Res system, problem solved.


User currently offlineUSA9195 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10898 times:

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 17):
Again, i gotta call BS and say again that this is a problem with airlines. There is a reason why flights run late, but paying pax are depending on those schedules for connections, etc. Tell them what the delay is...simple as that. If "too much info" involves some sensitive secuirty info, I can understand that. Perhaps gate agents need more training about the field they're in so they can make more qualified statment about situations instead of second hand info that just given on a need to know basis. They do need to know!

Have you ever heard the term "too much information?" You keep rambling on about how us gate agents should do this and do that, but have you ever worked a moment in our shoes?

For example, lets say their is a security breach in another part of the airport, yet the ramp and gates are all shut down and the guy is holding a gun to his head...do you pass along this information to the pax?

Here is another situation: let's say their is a GDP going on in PHL, and you have 45 international conx that are going to miss. You are pleading with the ATC desk for your airline to get your slot moved up 15 minutes because that can help. Now here is the question for you TinPusher....Do you tell the pax that their is a GDP before you call the dispatcher and the ATC desk, or after when you get an earlier slot? Which, of course, means that you just wasted your time making the announcement and answering the required after announcement questions of "what did you say?" "what about my flight?" "with the delay do you have any first class seats available?"  banghead 

Now if you don't get anywhere with dispatch or the ATC desk then my all means bite the bullet and make the announcement.

Also there are things to remember folks about the kind and type and speed of information passed along to us gate agents folks. We are only given the information that is passed along to us via ACARS, FLIFO, scheduling, and even our own supervisors. We are not psychic. We can't tell from the gate that the plane is circling, or landed on the other side of the field and going to take 20min to taxi in. The one thing that I hate as well as gate agents that have worked here since the 80's is when pax come running up with their cell phones, with the 800 number on the other side telling you what the agent on the phone is saying what the delay is due to, and what you are telling them. Alot of times the information is different on their computers than ours, because they are in the Philippines. (Give and example for that, had a flight to phoenix cancel, but the reservation center was telling our pax that their flight wasn't cancelled, that infact it was in range of PHX and they missed their flight and they were not entitled to re-booking.) After I was told that I went down and told the crew, who I know very well, that according to RES that they were about to land in PHX, to which they just laughed.

My point is give the gate agents a break, we are only given a finite amount of information. Sometimes we dont tell pax right away because we are trying to work on better things, like better slots and such, and some we just dont say because we are trying to get the full scope of the story before we tell so that way we know what we are talking about. But never fear the info will get to the pax one way or another.


User currently offlineKjet12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 976 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10867 times:

Like some have mentioned above, very often the information put into the computer is vague and many times it does have any reason at all. However, there are many resources for the agents to utilize to find out the reason for delays. When I have a passenger at my gate who arrives on a delayed inbound, I will try to research the situation in order to be fair. Flifo has some of the most basic information as to the nature of a delay, but operations very rarely will update it so the information is usually quite vague. In DECS, there is are delay narrative reports, and delay codes which we can look up. Additionally, the passengers PNR usually contains some information which can help assess the situation. Lastly, if no accurate information can be found, I will call operations. I don't believe agents intentionally lie to passengers, but it sounds like many do not utilize their resources. The question remains is do they not know how or are they just being lazy.

To give an example of a situation I once encountered with a passenger. The passenger was supposed to travel OKC-DFW-DCA, but instead was rerouted OKC-ORD-DCA. His OKC-ORD flight was delayed enough for him to miss the last connection to DCA. After some digging around, I noticed his OKC-ORD flight was infact delayed due to ATC. But, in his VCR record, that is when I noticed the original routing OKC-DFW-DCA. The passenger never told me about this. When I looked into that, it seemed his OKC-DFW flight was cancelled due to mechanical problems. Therefore, the passenger would not likely have been stranded in ORD if that OKC-DFW flight had not had maintenance problems. I did issue him a hotel and meals for the night. Needless to say he was quite suprised.

Again, I don't believe many agents necessarily lie, but rather don't use their resources.



AA - Doing what we do best.
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10779 times:

In 2 UA weather delays, they have booked us on CX and CO after missed intl connections. They seem to rebook you whether it is weather/atc or crew/aircraft problem.


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10652 times:

I think the biggest issue here is not that they lied, but the reason why they lied. It seems that the GA was lying in an attempt to avoid accommdating the OP and other travelers which is a terrible business practice. There is no excuse for this...

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 4):
I don't think you were either, but 90% chance that Gate agent didn't know what the problem really was.

Then there is clearly a training problem here. If the GA didn't know the issue, then they should have said something to the effect of 'I don't have current information at this point; I'm working with dispatch to find out the cause of the delay so we can accommodate you accordingly.' Done. End of story. Instead, they exascerbate the situation but making something up. Extremely poor level of customer service.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 14):
We give (sometimes) only the minimum of information to the agents and it should only be told just as we tell them.

What is the purpose of this? Is it to compensate for the perceived incompetence of the GA's? If so, then maybe the airliens should look at who they hire rather than withholding information.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 14):
employees ever start complaining about customers

Who cares if the employees complain about that customers. This is a non-point.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Jan 2006, 4186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10650 times:
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Quoting Remcor (Reply 3):
All I know is that both the agent and the supervisor looked at the same computer screen.

Not to be splitting hair, but do you know what they actually read off the screen ? Rather than some text message stating that your plane had been delayed by crew issue, could it be that all they both saw was the flight number, that the gate agent made up some excuse (it seems a lot of people, gate agents and otherwise, would rather make up an excuse than admit to not knowing an answer) and the supervisor was able to refer to prior knowledge about your particular flight just by seeing the flight number. Splitting hair, but at least the gate agent did not intentionally lie to you, she just may not have wanted to admit she had no answer.

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 13):
which means there should be enough shared info within the company so they do know exactly why a flight is delayed.

And where do you draw the line ? Where does the next passenger draw the line ? Is it at mechanical issue ? Is it at low oil pressure in the engine ? Is it at defective pressure regulating valve ? Is it at why you need to fix the issue rather than top off the oil tank and move on ? You get the point... Some people will just never have enough information to be satisfied.

Quoting Bistro1200 (Reply 15):
In some ways we have more tools available than ever

Not that they're very useful at a hub airport when that landing Mad Dog could be assigned to any number of continuing flights.



I've got $h*t to do
25 Jetbluejackets : From someone who deals with this crap on a weekly basis......take my advice WATCH THE WEATHER CHANNEL..... if it is cloudy in the NYC area, expect del
26 Post contains links Flightopsguy : Did you check the airline's website for delay info? Virtually all the major carrier's websites update flight delay info right from flightflo, so it do
27 LHRBlueSkies : Folks, many airlines ( or their employees) do lie about the reason for delays, in order to make the stats look better, to avoid paying compensation to
28 Post contains images OHLHD : I agree but only to a certain level. We discussed that already. That is true but I believe that some words might be missing here..... if not then I a
29 ArcrftLvr : I'm OK with this, as long as the airline employees here at a.net don't defend those actions.
30 LHRBlueSkies : If the gate agents are told something, then they (usually) have no reason to doubt it. Unfortunately, honesty is a commodity in rare supply these day
31 N917ME : I totally agree. The more experience the gate agent has (for the most part) the more accurate information passengers will get. I guess it would also
32 OHLHD : It should ( at least with major carriers) be possible to find out what the real delay was. I would simply ask for the Movement Message. A former coll
33 Luv2cattlecall : Too bad the pilot didn't have an iPhone with weather.com loaded up...he could have found an opening and make a dive for landing!
34 HAMAD : you know. one time, i asked at the check in counter to get the exit seat, and i am a premier, so what the agent said "we don't do this here, you need
35 LHRBlueSkies : Sorry, the this is not correct, as the delays given on this are subject to airline staff deciding whether to tell the truth or lie...
36 OHLHD : True, BUT I do hope that not 3/4 of the world agents are lying. If I have a check-in delay I put a check-in delay. If it is Tech - its Tech.
37 LHRBlueSkies : Me too, but I fear we are in the minority, as others simply don't want to fill in the delay paperwork, etc... sad but true!
38 XJETFlyer : Get use to it. People lie to your face every second of the day and probably including your spouse or significant other! Lying has become easy for many
39 Post contains images OHLHD : You are on the good side, just like me. Welcome to my RU-List
40 HAMAD : airlines are getting away with many things these day .....
41 FLYB6JETS : Come to my airport when I am working the gate. I make it a point to know the reason for the delay if there is one. If it is weather, you can darned we
42 LHRBlueSkies : Ditto dude!!!! Keep fighting the good fight!
43 Ikramerica : As far as I know, I don't get lied to much by CSRs but I do remember one trip that helped to sour me on AA forever. I was lied to in MIA by AA staff
44 JETBLUEJACKETS : WOOT WOOT!! DID YOU BY CANCE WORK FOR B6 IN CMH?
45 FLYB6JETS : How did you know? Have you seen me there before??
46 JBLUA320 : I can't vouch for UA, but at XE, agents should know the reason for a delay. Our tracking system is usually very reliable, and a delay code is entered
47 BWphoto : On an SFO - PHL flight on US last spring, we had MX issues which led to the complete cancellation of the flight (last of the day). I was so impressed
48 Davescj : The supervisor was undiplomatic I think. A better response would be "I see we have new information" or something similar. It certainly does nothing g
49 NorthstarBoy : see, this attitude on the part of airline personnel in general is what annoys me about flying, no one gives passengers any information anymore. I'm a
50 DrTrobridgeMSP : I think another interesting point to note here is that the consumer demands simply do not match the expectations that most airline passengers desire w
51 RDUDDJI : What flight number and date? I'll look up the delay reason. SFO has been on GDP's much of the last few weeks due to fog...so it's likely your flight
52 TinPusher007 : Yes I have heard of the term and like I said in an earlier post, if it is something that involves sensitive security info, than it should not be divu
53 LAXAgent : AC blocks a group of seats so they can be given out at the gate for families who have split seating. Also you have to think when flights are overbook
54 Post contains images Stylo777 : well, I'm an agent and working at a big hub. Our standard procedure with delays and the reason for them are [b]not to lie, just telling the truth[/].
55 Davescj : Sure this exists. But not for 50 USD.......charter a private jet........ Seriously, I find CO to give the most perks, but they aren't any better at c
56 Remcor : Actually, I now remember more detail about the story. The supervisor contradicted the agent _twice_. At SFO I didn't ask the reason for the delay bec
57 44k : Bingo. I am more than happy to issue vouchers/hotel accommodation if you are eligible. My management DOES NOT tell me to lie or deceive pax in order
58 Jetdeltamsy : This subject makes me sick. Airline employees are people just like you and me. Most of us would not work for any company that required us to lie to o
59 Post contains images VANGUARD737 : As a gate/ticket agent, I assure you we want nothing more than to get all passengers on their way as quick as possible, because it causes less headac
60 RDUDDJI : Working on it. After 10 days delay data goes into this large flat file that I'm having trouble manipulating in Excel (it's 300 lines wide and over 30
61 FlyOakland2IAH : The last couple of years flying CO and WN I have had good experience with pilots, etc. keeping us informed. In Sep. 2006 at IAH, as our CO 737 was be
62 Post contains images OHLHD : This is when you can get the passenger on your side despite a delay. A little acting will get you at least a few smiles despite a delay. Don´t get t
63 Remcor : Because people like you an me and all of us here would never lie? Lying in customer service happens all the time, not just in the airline industry. A
64 Flybynight : What kind of BS is that. As a very frequently UA flier, if I find I was blatantly lied to it would be bye-bye UA. You don't treat your clients like t
65 Kevi747 : Maybe an ATC problem caused the crew to go illegal, in which case, they were all true statements. Happens all the time. Doesn't mean you were lied to
66 AerorobNZ : In my experience with delayed flights all the passengers are asking the same questions over and over again, even when I announce everything over the l
67 Post contains images Boeingluvr : In a lot of cases, not all the information is given to gate agents. A cancellation or delay could easily be mistaken for another flight if someone con
68 LAXAgent : This is so true. We want the costumer to be happy and on their way. [quote=AerorobNZ,reply=66]In my experience with delayed flights all the passenger
69 StarGoldLHR : youve obviously never flown Ryanair... The only airline never to have had a technical problem, staff problem, resource problem or planning problem. Ev
70 SKA380 : I'd say what probably happened is that the crew operating your flight was delayed on another flight into SAN due to weather, and therefore the SAN - S
71 Nema : There are issues in the UK at the moment regarding airlines cheating us the customers by giving false info. It is suggested that they are wrongly cla
72 N917ME : Very true. Also, my airline would NEVER try to cheat the passenger out of compensation, meals voucher, etc. In fact, I think my airline is VERY liber
73 HAMAD : lol, you know wha, i am too... but look at their website when they put the reasons for the delay. one time i was on flight 903 from IAD to DEN, and w
74 LHRBlueSkies : Of course there is, and it happens on a daily basis. Crwes are late, but to stop getting flak from the Captain next time round, delay goes to ATC. Th
75 RFields5421 : Those two statements are inconsistent. In the second you say the agent and supervisor had the same information, but in the first your quote of the su
76 Aerofan : quoting Hamad "i am really not bashing airlines for stuff like that, but it is a norm that we don't get the right information from the airline employe
77 Jetdeltamsy : Ugh. The law requires airline companies to be honest about reasons for delays. Last winter there was a huge uproar about airlines claiming "weather"
78 Boeingluvr : What is your experience that tells you this and that has convinced you of this. Also your proof? Any of the airlines I worked with will only give the
79 HAMAD : i did fly out of dubai on Emirates but not out of london, however i never flown Emirates economy. what i was trying to say is that they are always ni
80 Remcor : My first post was written at 5am in a jet-lag no-sleep haze... both posts are fairly consistent, but in the second post the details are clearer. Anyw
81 Jetdeltamsy : If I wrote why you are being so controversial, i would probably get deleted. It's clear why your posts don't hold water. You have no way of knowing i
82 Remcor : You're straying off the topic of the post. The topic was whether it is implicitly or explicitly encouraged for agents to lie (in some airlines) when
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