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Cost Of Winglets  
User currently offlineSkuertz From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 7 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6048 times:

I understand winglets are used for fuel efficiency; can anyone give me an idea what the cost is to install these on all types of aircrafts? Thanks.

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCaptain.md-11 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6039 times:

$500,000 usd on the 737 as a retro-fit. Expensive option, but can reduce fuel burn, creating a saving of approx 1,000KG per 6 block hours.


Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6037 times:



Quoting Skuertz (Thread starter):
can anyone give me an idea what the cost is to install these

From http://www.b737.org.uk/winglets.htm for a B737 (-700, -800):
Winglets cost about $725,000 USD and take about 1 week to install which costs an extra $25-80,000 USD.

Quoting Skuertz (Thread starter):
on all types of aircrafts?

Not available for ALL types of a/c ...
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6041 times:



Quoting Skuertz (Thread starter):

You might find this interesting:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_17/winglets.html


User currently offlineSkuertz From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5784 times:

Thanks for the responses...

User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5562 times:

They are currently offered for the:

737-300
737-500
737-700
737-800
737-900
757-200

Alaska Airlines is performing the first 737-900 retrofits. The first plane should be finished before Thanksgiving.

Delta was the 'launch customer' for the 767-300 winglets. IIRC, they ordered 25 sets for their 767-300ER's. Will be available in late 2008.

Approximate cost to retrofit the plane BEFORE labor costs
737-300 and -500 = $500,000 usd

Quoting HT (Reply 2):
From http://www.b737.org.uk/winglets.htm for a B737 (-700, -800):
Winglets cost about $725,000 USD and take about 1 week to install which costs an extra $25-80,000 USD.

I believe they're up to about $800,000 (before installation) usd for 737-700, 800, and 900.

757-200; about $1 million usd

767-300ER: are gonna be between $1.5 and $2 million usd a pair.

Installation costs? Don't know much about it. Boeing made some kind of slight wing change design to the 737NG's; It takes longer to install winglets on the pre-switch 737NG planes than the post-switch 737NG planes. Hopefully someone else can shed some light on this.



B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
User currently offlineRampGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5515 times:

How are winglets installed on an aircraft that did not orginally come with them? DL just installed winglets on Ship 3744 (737-800) recently. How was it that this particular aircraft was chosen to be the first to get these winglets?

User currently offlineAviationNut From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5447 times:

I apologise for my ignorance and I don't want to "Hijack" the thead subject, but can someone tell me the Name Of The Triangular Structures on the end of some Airbus Aircraft (A380, A321, A320, A319, A318, A310 and it seems some later manufatured A300s) . I understand they are designed to stablise the aircraft in flight, but I have never heard them refered to by name.

I remember an A380 having contact with a Hangar in Bangkok and the "Triangular Structure" was simply removed and the aircraft continued on it way.


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Quoting HT (Reply 2):
HT

Thanks for the information on the Winglets HT, it is well appreciated.

Kind Regards,

AviationNut  Big grin



Regrets: I only flew Concorde Trans Atlantic twice
User currently offlineSeabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5414 times:



Quoting AviationNut (Reply 7):
the Name Of The Triangular Structures on the end of some Airbus Aircraft (A380, A321, A320, A319, A318, A310 and it seems some later manufatured A300s)

Wingtip fences. Less effective than true winglets for most applications, but far lighter (requiring less wing reinforcement) and cheaper. Airbus recently determined that the net benefit of switching to winglets on the A320, after necessary wing reinforcement, would not be worthwhile. By contrast, the 737NGs were designed to accommodate winglets, and the 757-200 wing has enough extra strength to do so.

Quoting AviationNut (Reply 7):
I remember an A380 having contact with a Hangar in Bangkok and the "Triangular Structure" was simply removed and the aircraft continued on it way.

747-400s, A330s, and A340s, at least, can also fly safely without a winglet. There is a fuel burn penalty for doing so.


User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

Quoting RampGuy (Reply 6):
How was it that this particular aircraft was chosen to be the first to get these winglets?

It could be a wide range of things... #3744 could have been in for an extended maintenance, etc. Also It could've been random, too. The plane was overnighting at the airport where the retrofits take place. You'll need a Delta insider to answer that question.

(deleted the raked wingtips section because the post above explains it better.  Smile )

[Edited 2007-11-16 21:20:36]


B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
User currently offlineAviationNut From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5368 times:



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 8):
747-400s, A330s, and A340s, at least, can also fly safely without a winglet. There is a fuel burn penalty for doing so.

Thanks mate, appreciate your reply. It cuts out just a little more ignorance from my life!

Kind Regards

aviationNut  Big grin



Regrets: I only flew Concorde Trans Atlantic twice
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5314 times:



Quoting BooDog (Reply 5):
Alaska Airlines is performing the first 737-900 retrofits. The first plane should be finished before Thanksgiving.

You got a valid source for this? The last time I checked, AS put the 739 winglet retrofit plans on indefinate hold. But this was last August. There were numerous threads about it.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5313 times:



Quoting BooDog (Reply 5):
They are currently offered for the:

737-300
737-500
737-700
737-800
737-900
757-200

I remember reading an article where AA planned on putting them on their 763's. Any info on that?



I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3161 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5269 times:



Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 12):

I remember reading an article where AA planned on putting them on their 763's. Any info on that?

They will be available soon, and expensive.

From http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.com/products/programlistprices.html

737-700/800/900: $850,000
737-300/500: $550,000
757-200: $900,000
767-300ER/FL $1,850,000

For the 737NG aircraft, the downtime differs greately between the first aircraft produced (LN 1-778 for -800) and the more recent aircraft (LN 778 and up for the -800). The more recent aircraft have a provisioned wing, and winglets can be installed in 4 days. The earlier aircraft need wing reinforcements and they have a typical downtime of 6 days (-700) to 8 days (-800).


User currently onlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3392 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

Don't forget the cost of downtime unless its going to be out of service for other needed work at the same time. Taking an aircraft out of service for a week or more can have a heavy impact on the bottom line.

User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5174 times:
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I might be wrong,but i remember the 777 when they first came out there was an idea there to add winglets.


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5165 times:



Quoting BooDog (Reply 5):
They are currently offered for the:

737-300
737-500
737-700
737-800
737-900
757-200

What about 737-400 and 737-600?



R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5024 times:



Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 16):
What about 737-400...

There are not very many 734's to sustain a retrofit, the only two carriers in the US that operate the 734 is US & AS. There as another thread about it as well. The 734 wouldn't really have a signifant return if winglets were slapped onto them. I forgot as to why, I think it has to do with the length of the fuse perpendicular to the wings length?? I forgot.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4989 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Quoting BooDog (Reply 5):
Alaska Airlines is performing the first 737-900 retrofits. The first plane should be finished before Thanksgiving.

You got a valid source for this? The last time I checked, AS put the 739 winglet retrofit plans on indefinate hold. But this was last August. There were numerous threads about it.



Quoting Joost (Reply 13):
From http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.co....html

found it on that website. Turns out AS is already done...

http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.co...s/pdf/news/07.11.15_APB_Alaska.pdf

Quoting Joost (Reply 13):
For the 737NG aircraft, the downtime differs greately between the first aircraft produced (LN 1-778 for -800) and the more recent aircraft (LN 778 and up for the -800). The more recent aircraft have a provisioned wing, and winglets can be installed in 4 days. The earlier aircraft need wing reinforcements and they have a typical downtime of 6 days (-700) to 8 days (-800).

yeah. that's what I was referring to. I hope someone can give us more info on what the "provisioned wings" are.

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 16):
What about 737-400 and 737-600?

the reason why is probably what Airframe said. Not enough of a market.

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 12):
remember reading an article where AA planned on putting them on their 763's. Any info on that?

Always read the entire post first!  Smile Go back and finish reading Reply #5.



B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3465 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

I had the pleasure of AA's "Fuel Czar" on my jumpseat last week and we discussed this subject briefly.

Quoting BooDog (Reply 5):
Boeing made some kind of slight wing change design to the 737NG's; It takes longer to install winglets on the pre-switch 737NG planes than the post-switch 737NG planes. Hopefully someone else can shed some light on this.

BAP offered installation in 21 days originally. AA Maint. was doing them in 9 days. BAP has now adopted the AA procedure and will install (complete retrofit) in 9 days. Note: time frames are for a complete retrofit to an early model -800 with L.A.S. (significantly beef up the outer wing structure), newer delivery planes are built with the stronger wing structure so less modification is required and therefore, less time to install winglets.

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 12):
I remember reading an article where AA planned on putting them on their 763's. Any info on that?

Tentatively scheduled to begin flight testing later this year and into next year. AA & Boeing are hoping for delivery in late 2008 or early 2009.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4955 times:

Quoting BooDog (Reply 18):
...found it on that website. Turns out AS is already done...

http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.co...a.pdf

Thank you for that article. But you said your reply #5:

Quoting BooDog (Reply 5):
Alaska Airlines is performing the first 737-900 retrofits. The first plane should be finished before Thanksgiving.

The latter is incorrect. The article states:

Quoting Aviation Partners Boeing website:
Alaska Airlines already operates winglets on its 737-700 and 737-800 fleets, and plans to retrofit most of its 737-900 winglets by late 2008.

That doesn't mean by thanksgiving, nor does it mean by Christmas. Late 2008 could mean anytime between August through December of 2008. (Edit add: N302AS and N305AS will be the only two that will not recieve the retrofit because the wing isn't strong enough for the retrofit or something along those lines, IIRC.)

Also, the article title is a bit misleading. Lion Air is currently flying the first 739 with winglets, but it is an ER version.

[Edited 2007-11-17 07:47:40]


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently onlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3392 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4926 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
Also, the article title is a bit misleading. Lion Air is currently flying the first 739 with winglets, but it is an ER version.

The 739 and 739ER are two different models.

Much like the 737-700 and 737-700ER are NOT interchangable as far as ownership goes. Same with the 777-200ER and 777-200LR. Seem like the same thing at a glance but the differences are profound if you are the


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4923 times:



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 21):
The 739 and 739ER are two different models

I am very, very well aware of that. They use the same wing, IIRC.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4855 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 15):
I might be wrong,but i remember the 777 when they first came out there was an idea there to add winglets.

No, originally Boeing was offering that folding wing option on the B-777-200 and B-777-200ER. No one ever ordered that option because of the weight penalty.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 21):
Much like the 737-700 and 737-700ER are NOT interchangable as far as ownership goes. Same with the 777-200ER and 777-200LR. Seem like the same thing at a glance but the differences are profound

True. But the big external difference for the B-777-200ER and B-777-200LR is the LR sports raked wingtips.

Is there anyone looking at retrofitting winglets or raked wingtips for the B-777-200ER /-300ER?


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5365 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4837 times:



Quoting Joost (Reply 13):
They will be available soon, and expensive.

In the quaint old days when oil was less than $50/bbl, the airlines were estimating that winglets would pay for themselves in a year to a year and a half. Since then oil has doubled and AP/B have raised their prices a bit, so now winglets probably pay back the investment in less than a year.

Depending on balance sheet needs, an airline could now classify them an expense, not an investment. Another tool in managing the profit numbers.  Smile



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
25 Post contains images RootsAir : Which winglets are most expensive. Raked wingtips, winglets or wingtip fences
26 AAR90 : According to that same Fuel Czar conversation, AA's 738 winglet "payback" is "less than 7 months."
27 Albird87 : I think AA are the launch customer actually.... Well just saying this as i do beleive that AA are using one of their 763s for tests. Delta soon jumpe
28 Justplanesmart : I saw one last Wednesday (11/14) morning coming into SEA. Thought it was one of their 737-800's until I took a closer look and discovered otherwise.
29 Post contains images BooDog : Lesson learned. Before I try to back up an IIRC with an article, I'll make sure to read the article first!!! LOL.
30 AirframeAS : Please re-read the latter part of reply 20. I know what the article says, dude. What lesson was learned?? You provided an article, I read it and para
31 Tdscanuck : The original 737NG wasn't designed to have APB winglets (the wing has the strength for other reasons but the attachment fittings aren't there). As a
32 Post contains links RyDawg82 : Not sure where the confusion is, Alaska *has* introduced its first 737-900 with winglets before the holidays. Sources: http://www.alaskasworld.com/ne
33 Pilotboi : What about the cost of winglets on a CRJ? Of course I know that they come standard - but there's still a price that they cost (i.e. if they need to be
34 Post contains links and images FXramper : Toured TUL; it's worth it for AA. I've posted before on this topic, AA among others, uses winglets well.
35 NEMA : Found this a really interesting thread with some qualified answers. It has surprised me particularly regarding the cost of fitting winglets, mainly be
36 AirframeAS : Ah, now I remember. Thanks TdScanuck! Read the APB article....and it will tell you.
37 Post contains images RobK : Up to $800k a piece ?!?! Get me some shares in APB, they must be absolutely coining it in at those prices. R
38 RyDawg82 : I posted two press releases that state the first AS 739 with winglets is in operation. Additionally, a fellow a.neter has spotted the bird and commen
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