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An Airline At Boeing Field  
User currently offlineRam025 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 79 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10044 times:

Ever since southwest thought about moving from SEA to BFI, I have thought about maybe another carrier moving there. Maybe if the Terminal is upgraded Skybus or G4 could move there. What do you think?


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40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9949 times:

Would be nice to have an alternative, but with SEA expanding with a new runway, I doubt it will happen. It would likely mean changes to the traffic flow in the Georgetown area of Seattle as well.


Heia Norge!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9835 times:

I don't imagine Boeing would want an airline at BFI. Then the airport would have comply with 14 CFR part 139.

User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9717 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
I don't imagine Boeing would want an airline at BFI. Then the airport would have comply with 14 CFR part 139.

I'm sure Boeing could lease it's fire department out for the entire airport use.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9694 times:

The Port of Seattle wouldn't allow it. They have a monopoly on airline service in the Puget Sound region. WN tried to back out of SEA and it didn't work. The only thing that WN did, IIRC, is reduction of service at SEA. Also, don't forget the big NIMBY's around BFI and PAE, that killed the whole BFI thing. I think WN tried to move to PAE after the BFI flop and that didn't work either??


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6217 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9590 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
I don't imagine Boeing would want an airline at BFI. Then the airport would have comply with 14 CFR part 139.

I can see it now....a daily A319 landing at the "enemies" camp every day



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9515 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
The only thing that WN did, IIRC, is reduction of service at SEA

I thought WN was increasing service out of SEA. They are starting a new non stop to Denver to compete with UA and Frontier.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 5):
I can see it now....a daily A319 landing at the "enemies" camp every day

All sorts of cargo plane fly into Boeing Field everyday. I see them from my downtown Seattle office window. Besides, there isn't an actual Boeing factory at BFI. I believe it is really just a delivery area for Boeing's single-aisle planes.



Heia Norge!
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3955 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9295 times:



Quoting Flybynight (Reply 6):
Besides, there isn't an actual Boeing factory at BFI. I believe it is really just a delivery area for Boeing's single-aisle planes.

Correct, but all 737 flight testing takes place at BFI.

R


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9229 times:
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The PAE thing is back on for possible commercial service. I don't know where it stands right now, though.

User currently offlineCirrusDriver From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9151 times:

Would be nice however, the Port of Seattle Mafia would send they're goons out after them!

User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9019 times:



Quoting Ram025 (Thread starter):
Ever since southwest thought about moving from SEA to BFI, I have thought about maybe another carrier moving there. Maybe if the Terminal is upgraded Skybus or G4 could move there. What do you think?

Not going to happen. Port of Seattle (owner of SEA) and King County (owner of BFI) negotiated a land use deal for an old train track that runs up the east side of Lake Washington. Part of the terms of that deal was that Port Of Seattle has to approve any changes to airline operations at BFI. And, since SEA is a cash cow for Port of Seattle, they will never approve it.

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 6):
Besides, there isn't an actual Boeing factory at BFI. I believe it is really just a delivery area for Boeing's single-aisle planes.

Besides 737 deliveries, it also has most of the flight testing. Some flight test is done at PAE to get things in the air but it all moves to BFI in short order. There's also Boeing military flight test, a whole whack of Boeing R&D, and a modifications hanger.

Tom.


User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8958 times:

I highly doubt any airline would be allowed to operate of Boeing Field. But if one did, I could easily see Alaska shifting some flights over there as well to protect (or gain) market share, similar to AA at Love Field.


"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineMQTmxguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8864 times:

Well technically there already is...

http://www.kenmoreair.com/

I think they are part 135 but still, they have scheduled service to FHR, CLM, ODW, and ORS from BFI.



Well at least we can all take comfort in the fact that NW will never retire their DC-9s
User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1720 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8003 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 5):
I can see it now....a daily A319 landing at the "enemies" camp every day

??? It's not uncommon to have 737s at Toulouse and Hamburg...


User currently offlineWard86IND From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7489 times:



Quoting Aircellist (Reply 13):
??? It's not uncommon to have 737s at Toulouse and Hamburg...

Yeah but it's not like either of those are "Airbus Field."



Live your dream.
User currently offlinePAHS200 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6657 times:



Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 14):

both Toulouse and Hamburg are major airbus fields. with Toulouse being the world HQ for airbus


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6287 times:



Quoting Flybynight (Reply 6):
I thought WN was increasing service out of SEA.

Nope. Reason: Very high landing fees because of the expansion of SEA and the 3rd runway. WN voted for it, but now does not want to pay for it. Hence as to why the reduction. Adding DEN flights is a very, very small increase for WN because its an additional city. So nothing has really changed for WN in SEA.

Quoting RobK (Reply 7):
Correct, but all 737 flight testing takes place at BFI.

Ehh, I don't know about that. But the hangars are for flightline, and it's also the 757/737 Delivery Center. (It's still called that even though the 757 line is gone.)

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 11):
I highly doubt any airline would be allowed to operate of Boeing Field.

With the Port of Seattle 'monopoly' in place, flights from BFI won't be happening anytime soon.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3955 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5833 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
Besides 737 deliveries, it also has most of the flight testing. Some flight test is done at PAE to get things in the air but it all moves to BFI in short order.

No. 737 testing is done from BFI and 747/767/777 testing is done from PAE. Period. The only times you'll see brand new Boeing heavies at BFI is when

1. Boeing needs to do some experimental tests (like the Air India 772LR recently).
2. They're too heavy to make their destination in one hit from PAE with a full tank of fuel due to their comparatively short runway and so sometimes use BFI instead of SEA (the last Kenya Airways 772ER being a good example).

R


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5769 times:



Quoting RobK (Reply 17):
...737 testing is done from BFI...

I thought that testing was done at RNT and final touch-ups/workable MEL's or what have you were completed prior to delivery at the Delivery Center at BFI.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineUPS757Pilot From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5022 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
1. Boeing needs to do some experimental tests (like the Air India 772LR recently).

I saw that airplane there recently. What tests were being done? We fly 757s and 767s to BFI daily at UPS. ABX as well but FedEx stays at SEA.


User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1729 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4929 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
SEA is a cash cow for Port of Seattle

 checkmark 

Funny how the PoS still needed to raise their portion of the county property taxes this week anyway.


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3955 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4878 times:



Quoting UPS757Pilot (Reply 19):
What tests were being done?

Just some new systems, nothing exciting.

R


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3750 times:



Quoting RobK (Reply 17):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
Besides 737 deliveries, it also has most of the flight testing. Some flight test is done at PAE to get things in the air but it all moves to BFI in short order.

No. 737 testing is done from BFI and 747/767/777 testing is done from PAE. Period. The only times you'll see brand new Boeing heavies at BFI is when

1. Boeing needs to do some experimental tests (like the Air India 772LR recently).

I should have been a little clearer. *Production* flight testing for widebodies is done from PAE, period. Development flight testing (747LCF, 777-200LR, 787, 747-8) is at BFI although, for obvious reasons, they visit PAE too. There are branches of the flight test organization in both places.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
Quoting RobK (Reply 17):
...737 testing is done from BFI...

I thought that testing was done at RNT and final touch-ups/workable MEL's or what have you were completed prior to delivery at the Delivery Center at BFI.

First flight for a 737 goes from RNT to BFI. All further flights are out of BFI, as far as I know.

Tom.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3720 times:



Quoting UPS757Pilot (Reply 19):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
1. Boeing needs to do some experimental tests (like the Air India 772LR recently).

I saw that airplane there recently. What tests were being done? We fly 757s and 767s to BFI daily at UPS. ABX as well but FedEx stays at SEA.

I never said that, UPS757Pilot. Be sure you quote the right person in the right box.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
SEA is a cash cow for Port of Seattle

 checkmark  Hence the 'monopoly' that POS has on the Puget Sound Region.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 22):
First flight for a 737 goes from RNT to BFI. All further flights are out of BFI, as far as I know.

I hope F9Animal can chime in on this since he is at Boeing....



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4102 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3689 times:

Didn't I also hear correctly that King County was going to make a trade with the Port Authority of Seattle for some Parkland/Openspace and the Port Authority would get BFI in return?


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
25 Mason : It's true, most (read all) 737s go from RNT to BFI on their first flight. Rarely will you ever see a 737 landing at RNT. Anyone ever seen one? Did the
26 Tdscanuck : They did, sort of. King County gets the use of an unused railway right-of-way that Port Of Seattle owns. In return, Port Of Seattle gets more control
27 EMB170 : IIRC, didn't both AS and WN at some point over the last few years each try to move their operations to BFI, only to have the Seattle Port Authority te
28 Threepoint : S'truth, no urban legend. In December 1969, the 3rd test 747 (piloted by a pilot overcompensating for the short 5000' runway) struck a seawall before
29 PlanesNTrains : Yes, they have landed in Renton, and do so from the south. Not real common, but it's been done. WN put out a press release and a plan to move to an 8
30 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : There are no aircraft factories there today, but quite a bit of other work gets done at Boeing facilities adjacent to the field. I seem to recall som
31 Suprazachair : You sure about that? I'm pretty sure on the rare occassion they land 'em at RNT they land from the north. From the south there's a blast fence and di
32 AirframeAS : And AS won that battle.
33 A342 : Careful, guys! XFW is indeed an "Airbus field", all commercial traffic goes to HAM. But yes, in Toulouse, both Airbus and the city's commercial servi
34 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : West Coast Airlines, one of the 3 airlines that merged in 1968 to form Air West, was based and operated at BFI. I think they moved to SEA about the ti
35 PlanesNTrains : Yes, I've watched them land from the south, and more recently, seen many business jets land from the south as well. I've never seen them land from th
36 AirframeAS : WN wanted lower landing fees, did they get it? That, I don't know, but I don't think so. It was more of a threat (a stupid one after they voted FOR t
37 PlanesNTrains : I don't care to re-debate the whole story - I know there are several old threads that dealt in depth with the WN BFI saga. I do believe it was a PR s
38 Post contains images AirframeAS : Do you realize that you are repeating what I just said?
39 PlanesNTrains : Does the "rolling eyes" icon make you feel better? I didn't repeat what you were saying, and it doesn't really matter if I did,does it? I simply was
40 AirframeAS : With all due respect...I agree with what you are saying. And.... duh! No need to be a broken record.
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