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Why No AA Logo Light At Night?  
User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13138 times:

Recently i have seen that AA dont seem to have their logo lit up at night time anymore....

Is this due to cost savings or is there another reason behind this???
Everytime i drive past my airport and the late AA flight comes in for the night, they seem to have the logo light off soo its hard to recognise the airline.

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8992 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13148 times:
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Quoting Albird87 (Thread starter):
Everytime i drive past my airport and the late AA flight comes in for the night, they seem to have the logo light off soo its hard to recognise the airline.

If the aircrafts are too loud on approach the people who live near the airport cannot recognize the airline anymore. So they cannot complain anymore Big grin

No, I don't know the reason...  Wink

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3471 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13107 times:

Money... money... money. In my 20 years with AA, we have deactivated Logo Lights three times. All to save the cost (parts, time & labor) to maintain the systems. Marketing Dept. wants them, Maint. Dept. does not.


*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlinePeteinmiami From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13007 times:

They are cheap!!!! No other reason!

User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13004 times:

I know a different story...my wife worked for AA and told me it is for security reasons. Not to call attention that AA on on approach or on the ground.

User currently offlineLoggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12986 times:

Delta did it last year as a sign of pilot solidarity.


There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3471 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12682 times:



Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 4):
I know a different story...my wife worked for AA and told me it is for security reasons. Not to call attention that AA on on approach or on the ground.

Nice thought, but everytime we've disabled the Logo Lights, it was fleet-wide --not just international, transcons, or higher threat airports. And all three times the official stated reason was "maintenance cost savings." IF your wife were correct, there would have been no need to spend the $$$ physically disabling the systems. Simply make it a checklist item and the pilots would turn off the switch. whistleblower 



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlinePeteinmiami From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12627 times:



Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 4):
I know a different story...my wife worked for AA and told me it is for security reasons. Not to call attention that AA on on approach or on the ground.

That is just a legend! The truth is AA had their tail light off long time before Sept 11 and they even do it at every single airport in the US. The idea behind that is to save on the cost of the bulbs replacements, same as they removed pillows from domestic flights , etc, etc. It is just an economical decision, nothing to do with security!!


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2246 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12602 times:



Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 4):
I know a different story...my wife worked for AA and told me it is for security reasons. Not to call attention that AA on on approach or on the ground.

Like the bad guys would give a turd which logo was on the target? They only shoot at night?

I'll go with the money reason, and ask why they don't keep them on for added collision avoidance. Use the newer LED type lights. Expensive up front, but last 100K hours.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12571 times:



Quoting Albird87 (Thread starter):
Is this due to cost savings or is there another reason behind this???

AA is notorious for these little things to save money..someone probably came up with it in IdeAAs in AAction


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3099 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12548 times:



Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 8):
I'll go with the money reason, and ask why they don't keep them on for added collision avoidance

An aircraft on a collision course would usually be coming from straight ahead...how would the illuminated tail help....?


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3329 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12509 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 10):
An aircraft on a collision course would usually be coming from straight ahead...how would the illuminated tail help....?

Not necessarily. When Bashkirian Airlines 2397 and DHL 611 collided over Germany in 2002, they were flying perpendicular to each other:



[Edited 2007-11-14 14:10:09]

User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12446 times:

For the short time they were operational on the 737 they were somewhat of a pain. They usually went bad when the weather was poor. Fun having to get a ladder to change it when it's windy.

User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12437 times:
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I know when my folks first moved into Newport News, the way they found out about FL flying there was because the tail was litup with the A logo on it... and considering the amount of last minute biz class tickets they've bought, I'm sure it made up for the cost of a few bulbs. I know it's a different story with AA being the biggest airline and all, but it's the little things that reinforce the brand image - otherwise you'd never see a coke/Pepsi ad on TV, it's not like anyone's not heard of those...

Just out of curiosity, do they print their logo on their trashbags? I know WN stopped doing that a while ago to save $$. Also, is that true, about the pillows being gone? Pillows, blankets, a/c, and heat...the easiest ways to ensure people aren't pissy!



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2246 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12395 times:



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 10):
An aircraft on a collision course would usually be coming from straight ahead..

Ahh......no. Go read some reports. Every imaginable angle.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineXJET From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 491 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 12178 times:

This is usually something that is done during labor negotiations. Whoever said it was a sign of pilot solidarity had it right.

User currently offlinePeteinmiami From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11545 times:



Quoting XJET (Reply 15):
This is usually something that is done during labor negotiations. Whoever said it was a sign of pilot solidarity had it right.

well that is ture in the case of DL, while for AA is company policy to cut cost, nothing to do with pilots solidarity or unions or terrorist avoidance measures


User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11338 times:



Quoting Peteinmiami (Reply 3):
They are cheap!!!! No other reason!

You can say THAT again bro! AA is the vanguard of the skinflint airlines. Talk about bare bones at top dollar.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5067 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10930 times:



Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 17):


You can say THAT again bro! AA is the vanguard of the skinflint airlines. Talk about bare bones at top dollar.

Say what you want, but they've still managed to stay out of Chap 11 thus far. Although with AA's debt burden, if they filed BK at midnight tonight I wouldn't be surprised.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offline_AA_777_MAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10881 times:

The bulbs have been taken out to save money. U cant replace something thats not there to replace.

User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10687 times:

Cheers for the info guys..... Seems like AA will do anything tho for a buck or two to save!!

I have to say that a logo is normally a good way to advertise an airline and adds style IMO.
I would of thought that AA could of saved a buck or two in other places maybe rather than with a couple of bulbs!!

Out of interest then.... how long do these bulbs last then?? Would of thought they would be pretty long life!


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11550 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10582 times:



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 20):
Cheers for the info guys..... Seems like AA will do anything tho for a buck or two to save!!

Yeah, as others have said, it's a cheapness thing, like so much else with AA.

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 20):
I have to say that a logo is normally a good way to advertise an airline and adds style IMO.

True, but I guess AA feels that people already know who they are. I don't know. Besides, with all the head-turning and attention their shiny bare-metal gets in the sunlight, I guess they feel that compensates for the lost publicity from now logo lights at night!  Smile

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 20):
I would of thought that AA could of saved a buck or two in other places maybe rather than with a couple of bulbs!!

Remember, this is the airline that famously saved almost $200,000 per year by removing a single olive from the First Class salads. They'll do anything to save a few bucks, but I must say, in the long-run, it's done well for them.

AA is basically the 80-year-old, retired Fort Lauderdale couple of the airline world. Just "frugal," not "cheap." Right.  Smile


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5152 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10492 times:

TWA invented them, and used them until the AA purchase. After that, to save $$, AA deactivated them.

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10472 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 10):
An aircraft on a collision course would usually be coming from straight ahead...how would the illuminated tail help....?

One of the most important times to be visible is during ground operations. Given the threat of runway incursions, I'd just assume everyone (myself included) be lit up like Vegas. Especially in weather or at night.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10126 times:



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 10):
An aircraft on a collision course would usually be coming from straight ahead...how would the illuminated tail help....?



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 10):
Not necessarily. When Bashkirian Airlines 2397 and DHL 611 collided over Germany in 2002, they were flying perpendicular to each other:

A logo light really shouldn't play any huge collision avoidance role!
-if you're blind enough to miss two massive strobe lights in the night sky
-and the nav lights draw no attention...
-not to mention the various warnings and solutions issued by TCAS (assuming ATC is out to lunch)

-->Then you shouldn't be flying an airliner!!



Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
25 Ha763 : It doesn't at cruise altitude. The logo light would have been turned off by then.
26 Luv2cattlecall : $40,000. Read the story about replacing a guard with a dog and the dog with a recording of a dog...the read the story about WN stealing flap parts fr
27 AAR90 : the entire system was deactivated on AA planes about 8 years ago. I couldn't turn it on if I wanted to --which personally, I would do... if I could.
28 AlexPorter : Why don't they just use the default bulbs until they burn out? I know that most of the fleet's bulbs would be gone by now, but surely on some 737s and
29 WCS : Hi, They told us during the base tour in Kansas City this summer they save quite a lot « thanks » to that. No maintenance, some weight saving as the
30 Post contains images Stickers : Spot on! Also they tend to do enough research. Anyhow, perhaps a pilot can help out here, i live about 40 - 50 minutes drive north of JNB (O. R. Tamb
31 FlyMIA : Landing lights must be on below 10,000ft and I think some airlines leave landing lights on below 18,000ft. Navigation Lights, Strobe lights and beaco
32 Stickers : Thanks
33 Theginge : I have heard that ATC at some airports prefer to have aircraft with Logo lights on at night as makes it easier to see who is who in the take off queue
34 Bartonsayswhat : As a ground service guy at a small airport which doesn't have separate terminals for different airlines, and when multiple airlines are flying the sam
35 747fan : Not all aircraft have the wingtip strobe lights. For example, I've noticed that UPS 747 classics and DC-8's lack these strobes, although the DC-8's d
36 Dl_mech : If the system is active (not deactivated), it must be repaired within a certain timeframe according to an airlines' maintenance program.
37 Iaddca : no more olives to take out of the salad plus, the Airline Pilots Association is about to petition for a new logo that incorporates the hammer and sic
38 LASOctoberB6 : Whats that?
39 Bohlman : Logo lights are almost always turned off in the air, the only times when it's not being when the pilot forgets. Almost all the lights are left on unti
40 AlexPorter : Seems kind of strange - the equipment is not necessary for flight, but if present and burnt out it has to be fixed? Is there a safety concern with ha
41 AirframeAS : That's not necessarly true. I've been on some 737 flights that had the anti-collision (The red ones on the fuselage) light on the top of the fuse is
42 Post contains images AAR90 : For Logo Lights... no rules. It is up the the airline. Nobody here knows how EVERY airline operates its fleet. Some may require the Logo light on at
43 FlyASAGuy2005 : I remember when ASA disabled theirs. It was to save on MTX costs.
44 SPREE34 : Where can I find that info? I didn't know WN was famous for this. You would thought I'd have read that in Nuts, or maybe seen it in a briefing when I
45 Post contains images AirframeAS : Source: Just look in the sky at night, if you see a WN 737 that has no wingtip strobes flashing but the anti-collision lights are flashing...you get
46 HAWK21M : Could be not wanting to be identified for Security reasons depending on the Area of Operations. regds MEL
47 FlyMIA : Wells it is a very standard before takeoff checklist item. Just flick the switch once you are on the active, not very hard item to forget. And for th
48 Post contains images A340600 : AA is clearly becoming ashamed of its own identity
49 LMP737 : In the end that's the name of the game in the airline industry.
50 Post contains images Luv2cattlecall : check out the thread on AA pilots and compensation !
51 Viaggiare : Bulbs... olives... spoons... what could possibly be next? Recycle enough newspaper, so both pax and crew can wipe their bums? Sounds like a financial
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