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The Future Of London's Fifth Airport?  
User currently offlineJumpJet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 283 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10607 times:

I just wondered what happened to the old chestnut of a fifth airport for London? I appreciate that this is something that has been rumbling around perhaps for as long as I have, but unless I've missed something, I think it must have died a death, suffocated beneath a huge mound of red tape and nimbyism!

However, I've had a brainwave.  idea 

How about the Royal Air Force base at Lyneham in Wiltshire, which is set to close in the not too distant future? It's got long runways, it's within spitting distance of the M4 Motorway and the London - Bristol mainline railway is within a mile or so. What do you think the practicalities of Lyneham becoming London's fifth airport are?

Lyneham's 88 miles from central London, in the overall scheme of things, is that simply too far away? Are there any other major airports miles away from the centre of the city they're supposed to serve?

Your thoughts...?  crazy 

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10585 times:

Well 88 miles is near enough for FR to entitle it London Lyneham; but in all probability its probably just a little bit too far away. There's other sites available for major expansion closer to London; Manston is one, and the other one that springs to mind is the former RAe Bedford

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7627 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10553 times:



Quoting JumpJet (Thread starter):
I just wondered what happened to the old chestnut of a fifth airport for London?

Or even London's sixth airport to join LHR, LGW, STN, LTN and LCY?  Wink


User currently offlineJumpJet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10500 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
Or even London's sixth airport to join LHR, LGW, STN, LTN and LCY?

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about LCY - I'm in your debt VV701 - and suitably chastened!  blush 


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10484 times:



Quoting JumpJet (Thread starter):

How about the Royal Air Force base at Lyneham in Wiltshire, which is set to close in the not too distant future?

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

And I live in a prime spotting location for Lyneham as well, but my answer would still be a resounding 'NO!'.


User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10483 times:

The Government's extant policy is as follows:

(taken from The White Paper 'The Future of Air Transport', published on 16 December 2003)

* There is an urgent need for additional runway capacity in the South East.
* There is no strong case for the development of a second international hub airport alongside Heathrow.
* The first priority is to make best use of the existing runways, including the remaining capacity at Stansted and Luton.
* Provision should be made for two new runways in the South East by 2030.
* The first new runway should be at Stansted, to be delivered as soon as possible (around 2011 or 2012).
* The further development of Heathrow is supported, including a further new runway and additional terminal capacity to be delivered as soon as possible (within the 2015-2020 period) after the new runway at Stansted, but only if stringent environmental limits can be met. An urgent programme of work and consultation will be started to examine this issue further and to consider how best use can be made of the existing airport.
* The Government will not seek to overturn the 1979 planning agreement preventing construction of a second runway at Gatwick before 2019.
* In case the conditions attached to the construction of a third Heathrow runway cannot be met, and since there is a strong case on its own merits for a new wide-spaced runway at Gatwick after 2019, land should be safeguarded for this.

it then goes on to say that no other proposals are supported.



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10478 times:



Quoting JumpJet (Thread starter):
Your thoughts...?

Its potential use as a civil airport is already being looked at by certain people  Wink



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10445 times:



Quoting Cornish (Reply 6):
Its potential use as a civil airport is already being looked at by certain people

Namely Sid and Doris Bonkers, "Bide-a-wee" Rest Home, Lyneham, Wiltshire. They are hoping to get the duty-free concession  Smile


User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10446 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
Or even London's sixth airport to join LHR, LGW, STN, LTN and LCY?

or even London's eighth airport to join:

LHR, LGW, STN, LTN, LCY, "London Southend" & "London Biggin Hill"
 Wink



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7627 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10435 times:



Quoting GCT64 (Reply 8):
or even London's eighth airport to join:

LHR, LGW, STN, LTN, LCY, "London Southend" & "London Biggin Hill"

Not forgetting London Manston!


User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10409 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 9):
Not forgetting London Manston!

How could I! - OK, so the question is: "How many airports claim to be London Something Airport"?
We have 8 already.
Are there any more?



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10393 times:



Quoting GCT64 (Reply 10):
Are there any more?

Answered my own question ...

London Ashford Airport - known to most as Lydd.
any more?



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4013 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10383 times:

"London Ashford Airport" - the self-proclaimed "future of aviation in south east england"


Stocktaking:

London Heathrow
London Gatwick
London Luton
London Stansted
London City
London Southend
London Manston
London Biggin Hill
London Ashford

That makes 9, so a tenth would nicely round it off. Maybe you should ask Ryanair for some ideas, they are usually rather creative when it comes to these matters.


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10381 times:



Quoting GCT64 (Reply 11):
any more?

Battersea Heliport, depending on your definition of airports  Wink



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineJumpJet From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10315 times:

It's great to see that the art of sarcasm is alive and so very well!!

Well done team...  Big grin  Big grin

How about London Ontario?


User currently offlineTepidHalibut From Iceland, joined Dec 2004, 210 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10251 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 12):
Maybe you should ask Ryanair for some ideas, they are usually rather creative when it comes to these matters.

Are you referring to London Prestwick ??

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/arc...06/02/09/a_wee_trip_to_london.html


User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10131 times:



Quoting JumpJet (Reply 3):
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about LCY - I'm in your debt VV701 - and suitably chastened! blush

Yes we all forget about LCY and its the only one officially in London  Smile


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4013 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10111 times:

These are the travel distances (road) from Trafalgar Square:

London City - 8,6 miles
London Heathrow - 16,8 miles
London Biggin Hill - 18 miles
London Gatwick - 30,3 miles
London Luton - 34,1 miles
London Stansted - 37,7 miles
London Southend - 42 miles
London Manston - 75,5 miles
London Ashford - 73,3 miles


Given that apparently a distance of no more than 80 miles from Trafalgar Square is London'ish enough to call your airport "London", we should lobby for having those airports renamed as well:

London Oxford - 58 miles
London Shoreham - 57,6 miles
London Southampton - 78,6 miles
London Lasham - 54,3 miles


User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10067 times:

Probably the most surprising one that isn't London Something Airport is Northolt.
I would have thought the exec operators there would have renamed RAF Northolt to LondonWest ExecPort (or something equally tacky!).



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10017 times:



Quoting GCT64 (Reply 18):
Probably the most surprising one that isn't London Something Airport is Northolt.
I would have thought the exec operators there would have renamed RAF Northolt to LondonWest ExecPort (or something equally tacky!).

what about Farnborough too ? That certainly serves London primarily.

oh and not forgetting London - Woking (i.e. Fairoaks) Big grin



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlinePHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9968 times:



Quoting GCT64 (Reply 5):
* The Government will not seek to overturn the 1979 planning agreement preventing construction of a second runway at Gatwick before 2019.
* In case the conditions attached to the construction of a third Heathrow runway cannot be met, and since there is a strong case on its own merits for a new wide-spaced runway at Gatwick after 2019, land should be safeguarded for this.

Thanks for this. I didn't realize that the lack of expansion at LGW was due to a planning agreement rather than local neighbor opposition. (Though I assume the latter will materialize when they start moving towards additional runways.)


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6927 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9938 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 12):
London Heathrow
London Gatwick
London Luton
London Stansted
London City
London Southend
London Manston
London Biggin Hill
London Ashford

Is London Northolt still open guys? Would it count as the 10th London Airport? (reason is: since Biggin is counted, why not this one... isn't it for the biz jets too?)

London Ashford... LOL, We could campaign for London-Shoreham Airport for all the small regional flights... with a nice rail link to Central London... via LGW too! LOL

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26619 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9908 times:



Quoting GCT64 (Reply 5):

* There is an urgent need for additional runway capacity in the South East.

Given that they designed Stansted to take 4 runways, they should live up to that plan.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 5):
* The first new runway should be at Stansted, to be delivered as soon as possible (around 2011 or 2012).

They should just build all 3 now.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 5):
* The Government will not seek to overturn the 1979 planning agreement preventing construction of a second runway at Gatwick before 2019.

Question. Would classifying construction as a "move" of the current emergency runway count as construction of a second runway?

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 17):
Given that apparently a distance of no more than 80 miles from Trafalgar Square is London'ish enough to call your airport "London", we should lobby for having those airports renamed as well:

How about London Cambridge?  Silly



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDhhornet From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9872 times:

London Blackbushe, Just right for LCY type aircaft

User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9810 times:



Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 21):
Is London Northolt still open guys?

From their website

Quote:
RAF Northolt is a VIP Military Airfield to the West of London, which handles Government, Military and Civil flights. It provides a no hassle, rapid gateway for destinations to the North and West of London including the Thames Valley.

With a runway or 1,684m, the airport is ideal for all corporate aircraft up to and including Boeing and Airbus Business Jets and with a maximum capacity of 30 seats but excluding single engined aircraft. Helicopters are also accepted.

RAF Northolt is restricted to 3,500 flights a year (7000 Movements) so access is at a premium.

Interestingly BEA (a predecessor of BA) started operations from Northolt before LHR opened.

How far is Brize Norton from Trafalgar Square?



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
25 N1120A : 72.60 miles according to Mapquest.
26 Post contains images BCAL : Thanks Bit far out to be London's sixth airport should the UK Government ever decide to decommission it, but still within FR's parameters.
27 N1120A : And still a joke. Hell, Brize Norton is 10 miles closer to Bristol than to London.
28 Flipdewaf : Im sure they'd call it london lulsgate aswell if they thought more people would use it. Fred
29 EXTspotter : Here are some more examples of FR-yness: Valladolid (VLL/LEMD), Spain was supposed to partly serve Madrid, over 100 miles away. Then you always have B
30 F4f3a : how about london farnborough?
31 Heathrow : I think STN and LTN have a lot of potential (Not just saying this to bennifit my East Anglia estate!) and I'd love to see some quality carriers (Not F
32 Gsosbee : It was open 6 months ago when I flew into it. It is for business jest and has movement time restrictions.
33 Threepoint : Is this due to nimbyism or more practical opposition?
34 Post contains images FRAspotter : Or London, Kentucky....
35 Post contains images WestJetYQQ : Both just a little farther away than Lyneham.
36 Mandala499 : So, what goes as the ten London Airport? But throw out London Lulsgate, London Rhoose, London Brize Norton, London Eastleigh... otherwise we'll end up
37 WarRI1 : I would hate to take a taxi from the airport 83 miles outside London. the taxi driver told us about 55 pounds to go to Trafalgar Square from LHR and w
38 BCAL : If you had taken a Hackney cab from the official rank and the vehicle had displayed the badge "Licensed to carry four passengers", once you hired the
39 N1120A : That is a bit steep. The general rate they charge tends to be more like 40 quid. The Tube would have been even cheaper.
40 GCT64 : and, if you start on the right tube line or are going to somewhere on the right tube line, the tube is often much quicker than a taxi (especially in
41 N1120A : This is very true. There is one real reason I can see and that is luggage. If you have 4 people and all their bags going into town, taking a cab mean
42 WarRI1 : When we took the taxi from the train station to the hotels, we took one and the others took another one to their hotel, (separate hotels) the cabbie
43 Moo : The locals (myself included) want the military to remain at Lyneham for the forseeable future - the RAF C-130 wings are moving to Brize Norton someti
44 SKAirbus : Well if Ryanair operated here they would probably advertise it as "Central London"... But seriously Manston could make a good airport.. It has a long
45 Post contains images VV701 : STN - or at least its main and only runway is American in origin. The runway was laid in 1943 by the US Army 817, 825 and 850 Engineering Battalions.
46 Post contains links R2rho : The situation of the London airports is completely hopeless and could only be changed through an ambitious global initiative led and fully supported b
47 LTBEWR : Airport expansion is almost impossible in many parts of the world, and of course in the London area. 'NIMBY', serious and frivolous environmental issu
48 N1120A : I am aware of Stansted's beginnings, but the planning and land acquisition has been for a major, 4 runway airport. It is just a matter of building it
49 GCT64 : I wondered what effect this would have so went and looked at the flights on a typical recent day (15 Nov 07): 12% of LHR movements were to/from UK Ai
50 VV701 : In your excellent analysis I am afraid you show your age or, rather, lack of age. Inactivity and deferral of all decisions goes back much further tha
51 Post contains images R2rho : Indeed, I wasn't even born when all that happened! Thanks for the nice history lesson
52 DL777LAX : Uhh... Tijuana wouldn't serve as a stand in for LAX. It'd stand in for SAN. At over 130 miles, its further from LAX then SBA... Los Angeles- Santa Ba
53 N1120A : Personally, I am waiting for Los Angeles-Camarillo
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