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Kitty Hawk Comes Back For DHL  
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Rumours abound on the ABX Air Yahoo! Finance message board about bankrupt-and-shut-down Kitty Hawk making a temporary comeback by flying for DHL from the 19th through Christmas. Although the board is a fountain of absurd misinformation, trash-talking among purported ABX and AStar employees, and disgruntled former DHL drivers, there's enough smoke about this DHL thing, including some posts that purport to quote some internal ABX communications, that I'd give some credence to the following, at least:

Apparently, AStar Air Cargo (the former DHL Airways) doesn't have enough crews to reliably fly their 727 freighter schedule during what are anticipated to be heavy holidays. Among other things, DHL and FedEx now split the Dell contract for US air and ground shipments, with UPS out of the picture. So DHL should at least be busier than it usually is. In any event, the probably-believable rumour is that AStar will park 5 727s for the holidays, and they will be "replaced" (more about that later) by 5 of KHA's seven 737-300SFs. That will lessen pressure on AStar to crew its 727s, and give them some room if their crew absences spike during the holidays. It will also give the poor KHA pilots some much-needed work. The rumoured cities appear to be GSO, ORD, MSP, LAS and ELP. Some of these sound a little large for holiday-season shipping on a 737, although ORD, for example, usually gets more than one aircraft per evening. OTOH, ORD is close enough to make two trips, I guess. ABX will provide ground handling for KHA aircraft at ILN, much as they do now for AStar's aircraft.

Several posters have noted that the 737 is probably a better "replacement" for a DC9-40 than it is for a 727, but that ain't gonna happen. The DC9s all use "C-Cans", which fit through the former passenger door on the DC9, rather than requiring a cargo door, and the ground equipment for the DC9 cities accordingly can't load standard A-cans. Thus, the 737s won't be replacing ABX flying at any of its DC9 cities.

I'm pretty unclear as to how a 737-300 can "replace" a 727, particularly during the busiest season of the year. If it can, with only one trip per day, then the 727s were being woefully and wastefully underutilized. The 737-300SF can handle 8 standard containers, and 17 metric tons, whereas the 727 can handle 12 containers and 20 metric tons. (The DC9 can handle about 14 metric tons and actually has more cubic meters of space than the 737 -- 80 M3 vs 75 M3 on the 737.) So part of this story doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm sure the folks at DHL have some kind of plan to make this work. There are obviously scope issues and contract issues here as well, but I guess we'll see how that all shakes out.

Because KHA is in bankruptcy, it's hard to see how the rumours of much more that are floating around -- like that AStar will "buy" KHA or that KHA is going to come in with its seven 737s and somehow replace the scores of ABX DC9 flights -- are anything more than crap. But the ACMI lease for a month or so does seem more plausible. In any event, this could be good news for the KHA pilots, but probably does little more than postpone the inevitable. At least some of them will have a paycheck around the holidays. (I don't know how many of the KHA drivers have type ratings on both equipment, because it appears that 4 of KHA's 7 727s have been returned, and in any event the remaining ones aren't rumoured to be used in the DHL short-term contract, although I suppose that it's possible that they could try to pick up some work on the post-office's holiday C-NET contract.)

One interesting rumour is that the 737s could later replace the DC9s and underutilized 767s that now fly into and out of DHL's small RIV hub, particularly in light of the NIMBYs that have been complaining about the nighttime noise, after the holiday season. (Of course, some of the noise that they're bitching about isn't even actually flying into RIV, but that's another story.) The 737s are certainly comparatively quiet, so the rumour is interesting. However, this would require a significant investment in ground equipment and training out there, as well as a significant increase in the on-time reliability of KHA's operation, at least as compared to the rumours of how reliable it isn't as compared to ABX's well-oiled operation.

In any event, this will make some interesting spotting in some of these cities, as well as a decent test as to how useful the 737-300SF really is in express carrier operation. (One problem the aircraft has is its vulnerability to being damaged, as a result of the close proximity of the front of the engine cowl to the cargo door. Not a lot of room to maneuver, particularly if people aren't careful.)

[Edited 2007-11-16 01:17:24]

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3608 times:

Interesting news... so I guess it means that:

a) Kitty Hawk's pilots will get some more money before leaving for other carriers
b) Kitty Hawk could pay off some of their debts to FWA quicker, as DHL might be able to charge a premium for the short-term services
c) DHL could see in real life if the 737-300SF could be a good replacement for DC-9s or 727s for AStar or ABX Air

I hope this comes true.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26175 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3597 times:

Per a DHL internal announcement this was to be for seasonal supplementary lift effective Nov 19th.

I would not read much into this besides a short-term ACMI lift and not some miraculous life line for Kittyhawk which still has a very cloudy future.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineObserver From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3367 times:

The fundamentals of the first post are true, but no deal has been cut with the lessor of the KTTY 737s yet.

User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3325 times:

It wasn't clear what the status of these aircraft are, both with regard to the lessor and with regard to whether they had been "stored" pursuant to the certificate holder's maintenance program and what expenses, if any, would be necessary to get them "unstored", and where the funding for that would come from. We know they're in Ardmore. We know that GECAS appeared in Court and proposed some alterations to the DIP financer's attempt to secure the financing with the leases. The Court is in the business of keeping the business in business if possible, so I'm sure that they can get its blessing if they come to an arrangement, if indeed an arrangement even needs to be made. Time to get cracking, though, if the planes are to be in the air again by Monday.

User currently offlineAvro7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3290 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Thread starter):
I'm pretty unclear as to how a 737-300 can "replace" a 727, particularly during the busiest season of the year. If it can, with only one trip per day, then the 727s were being woefully and wastefully underutilized. The 737-300SF can handle 8 standard containers, and 17 metric tons, whereas the 727 can handle 12 containers and 20 metric tons.

I'm no expert on 727 or 737 weight and balance, but when I worked on the Astar ramp I'll bet our average load was pretty close to 8 containers and well under 17 tons. We might have had 10 or 11 full containers coming out of ILN more often than going in, and I don't have any idea what the importance of not having to consolidate containers in the hub would have been, but overall gross weight had nothing to do with it.
I've been in the transportation business for 10 years or so and every mode of transportation has woefully underutilised vessels in some aspect.


User currently offlineWarszawa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Interesting information - would be a win win for both Astar and Kitty Hawk. However, a 733 flying ILN-LAS? In the winter, where the winds at cruise level are highest? Ouch. Why ditch the 727 on such a route? Astar has plenty of other viable routes to temporarily replace the 727 with a 733.

The only reason I could imagine would be that other Astar-destinations experience higher loads, or better utilization of the 727's cargo space, while LAS loads are on average pretty low or mediocore, hence the reasoning for a 733 on the route. Perhaps with a slight increase in loads for Christmas, yet still operating at less than (estimating) 70-80% cargo utilization, the 733 could make the ILN-LAS flight without a fuel stop.

I believe LAS has always been fairly low yields for DHL anyways. Likewise, probably the only reason they fly a 727 in there is simply because they have no other aircraft in its class to fly nonstop from ILN with less cargo space, aside from the DC-9, which would likely require a fuel stop, especially in the winter. Didnt ABX Air used to fly the DC-94 into LAS a couple years back, connecting in ICT or MCI I believe it was?

Wjcandee - Are you aware of any ABX DC-9's being retired? I've noticed some trimmed routes in ABX's network, some recent some many months ago. GRR no longer receives a DC-9 (now receives a 722 from MKE), BIL hasnt had nonstop service to ILN for some 6+ months at least. Believe there are a few other markets that dont come to mind right now that no longer have the DC-9, whether replaced by some other aircraft, or the route ditched all together.

Does ABX still fly the DC-93's with the Cargo-Door conversion (ex-Evergreen 'freighters' I believe)?

And, any news on the CNET contract as of yet? So close to peak season already, i'm surprised theres no news.



Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
User currently offlineRampGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

With Kitty Hawk in bankruptcy, does this mean that those of us that work at FedEx's Indy hub will see more volume this holiday season? Hope FedEx has enough planes to cover it all.

User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3164 times:



Quoting Warszawa (Reply 6):
Are you aware of any ABX DC-9's being retired?

Yes. Significantly. DHL has cut down the DC9 flying significantly from its peak, and has made several former nonstop routes into one-stoppers. They had 74 DC9s in service at June 30, 2003 (23 767s, 18 DC8s). At June, 2005, it was 72 DC9s, 28 767s and 15 DC8s. By June 2006, it was 59 DC9s in service to DHL. By October 2007, it was 57 DC9s, 38 767s (including those used in charter) and 4 DC8s. So, the bottom line is they dumped 15 DC9s.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 6):
Does ABX still fly the DC-93's with the Cargo-Door conversion (ex-Evergreen 'freighters' I believe)?

Could be wrong about this, but I thought I read some time ago that there were no ABX DC9s that have an active cargo door. If it isn't active, then it just adds weight, so it stands to reason that they're not flying any with cargo doors. (Of course, the logic may not be this simple.) Evergreen, IIRC, even had some DC9-10s with the cargo door when they were a major player in the USPS network.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 6):
And, any news on the CNET contract as of yet? So close to peak season already, i'm surprised theres no news.

I was thinking about that today, and saw no press releases about it at all. Last year, the network manager was announced around the 20th, and then it wasn't for several more days until KHA put out a press release that they'd been asked to run some of their aircraft during the day on the thing. So...I'm guessing that we'll see something next week. I missed today's ABX conference call -- heard it on replay -- and was frankly unimpressed with the quality of the questioning. Nobody picked up on the fact that Hete said that the USPS had retained them to operate an "extra holiday hub" in Dallas; I would have asked him whether it was an air or ground hub, and what about C-NET already, but I think from the context that he was probably talking about a ground hub. Of course, C-NET has both an air and ground component, but still, he most likely wasn't talking about C-NET.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3133 times:



Quoting Warszawa (Reply 6):
Does ABX still fly the DC-93's with the Cargo-Door conversion (ex-Evergreen 'freighters' I believe)?



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
Could be wrong about this, but I thought I read some time ago that there were no ABX DC9s that have an active cargo door. If it isn't active, then it just adds weight, so it stands to reason that they're not flying any with cargo doors.

At least some of those aircraft are still in service. However, when ABX purchased those, because they were the oddballs in the DC-9 fleet, they removed all the mechanical and other unnecessary parts to those doors and disposed of them, and sealed the door shut, opting to instead use the passenger door to load those aircraft so they would work like the rest of the fleet rather than having a sub-fleet of DC-9 Freighters. And, that is correct Warszawa, most were ex-Evergreen.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3076 times:



Quoting Observer (Reply 3):
The fundamentals of the first post are true, but no deal has been cut with the lessor of the KTTY 737s yet.

Interesting, Observer. Maybe they got it figured out, because KHA is flying a 737-300SF up tonight from storage in Ardmore to ILN.

Also, they flew a 727-200F today from ONT to SDF, so looks like they may use those remaining coupla 727s in holiday service for UPS.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3074 times:



Quoting RampGuy (Reply 7):
With Kitty Hawk in bankruptcy, does this mean that those of us that work at FedEx's Indy hub will see more volume this holiday season?

Maybe. But the real beneficiary since the shutdown has been BAX Global and its supporting airlines (ATI and Cappy).


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4617 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3046 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 11):
Maybe. But the real beneficiary since the shutdown has been BAX Global and its supporting airlines (ATI and Cappy).

You can add....ABX Air to the list now of carriers for BAX. They are adding in I think 5-6 767s for the TOL hub to replace some of the DC-8s until ATI/CCI can find a replacement.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2972 times:



Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 12):
They are adding in I think 5-6 767s for the TOL hub to replace some of the DC-8s until ATI/CCI can find a replacement.

And, of course, ABX just agreed to purchase both ATI and CCI, so it will all be under one holdings company this time next year, too.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

There are 5 flights from ADM to ILN today by HKA with 737-300s. Combined with the one that went on Saturday, that makes 6 a/c, it seems. Maybe one is a spare, or maybe DHL opted to lease 6. Looks like they'll be in service tonight.

User currently offlineWarszawa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2561 times:

Thanks for the info gents. I definitely noticed the increase in one-stop routes, especially on Friday Night/Saturday Morning runs, suspected some DC-9's were being retired but only knew of the DC-86's leaving the fleet.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
Nobody picked up on the fact that Hete said that the USPS had retained them to operate an "extra holiday hub" in Dallas; I would have asked him whether it was an air or ground hub, and what about C-NET already, but I think from the context that he was probably talking about a ground hub. Of course, C-NET has both an air and ground component, but still, he most likely wasn't talking about C-NET.

I agree, it probably had nothing to do with CNET. If it did, i'd be surprised, and, i'd expect an air and ground operation, not one or the other. Likewise, probably just a new contract with USPS (most likely for DHL@Home parcels, and/or USPS's Ground-Parcels [non Priority Mail/Express Mail packages]) for the holidays.

So i'd expect some announcement on CNET by Friday, perhaps.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 14):
There are 5 flights from ADM to ILN today by HKA with 737-300s. Combined with the one that went on Saturday, that makes 6 a/c, it seems. Maybe one is a spare, or maybe DHL opted to lease 6. Looks like they'll be in service tonight.

Looks like they arrived in the afternoon around 1-2pm, and you're probably right, if they arrived today, i'd expect them to be in service tonight. The aircraft KHA flew in Saturday morning was probably for familiarization for the ground staff at ILN. Nice to see the KHA crews will find some work this holiday season.



Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
User currently offlineWarszawa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

Holiday cargo ops, fun stuff Big grin

Holiday information for UPS and DHL operations:

New routes:

DHL:

ABX2011 MDT-ILN, DC94
ABX2000 JFK-ILN, DC86
DHL770 ILN-JFK, 722
SNC1040 MYR-ILN, SH33

UPS:

UPS951 OAK-ONT, 741
UPS949 OAK-RFD, 752
UPS987 BFI-RFD, 752
UPS625 DEC-SDF, 752
UPS991 GEG-SDF, 752
UPS993 GEG-ONT, 752
UPS1113 JFK-SDF, 752
UPS1295 GSP-SDF, 752
UPS1314 CAE-ATL, 752
UPS1329 MIA-CAE, 752
UPS1343 MIA-PHL, 752
UPS1345 FLL-SDF, 752
UPS1347 MIA-SDF, 752
UPS3799 ABQ-SDF, 752
UPS3915, ONT-SDF, 752
UPS9768, RFD-CAE, 752
UPS9806 ATL-CAE, 752
UPS935, LGB-DFW, 763
UPS3387 MEM-SDF, 763
UPS561, MSP-DFW, DC87
UPS1073, EWR-CAE, DC87
UPS1087 EWR-SDF, DC87
UPS3127 JFK-RFD, DC87
UPS3195 PHL-SDF, DC87
UPS4758 DFW-SDF, DC87
UPS601, ORD-SDF, A306
UPS835, BOI-SLC-SDF, A306

...Misc:

TSU1908 PIL-SDF, 721
MRA455 LAN-DTW-SDF, C208
SNC330 MKE-SDF, SH33
ATN887 ABQ-ONT, DC87


Upgrades and/or Changes (All Carriers):

DHL102, SFO-ILN, A30B (Change from ABX 762)
UPS927, ONT-RFD, A306 (Upgrade from 752)
UPS541, MKE-SDF, A306 (Change from DC87)
UPS557 MSP-PHL, A306 (Change from DC87)
UPS1081, EWR-SDF, A306 (Upgrade from 752)
UPS1443 LCK-SDF, A306 (Change from DC87)
UPS961 OAK-ONT, 741 (Upgrade from 763)
UPS1193 PHL-SDF, 741 (Upgrade from A306)
UPS613, ORD-SDF, 742 (Upgrade from A306)
UPS923 ONT-DFW, 752 (Downgrade from 763)
UPS1219 IAD-SDF, 752 (Downgrade from DC87)
UPS1305, ATL-SDF, 763 (Change from DC87)
UPS503, DSM-SDF, DC87 (Upgrade from 752)
UPS775, IAH-DFW, DC87 (Upgrade from 752)
UPS1153 PIT-PHL, DC87 (Upgrade from 752)
UPS1309 ATL-DFW, DC87 (Upgrade from 752)
UPS1391 JAN-SDF, DC87 (Upgrade from 752)
UPS559, MSP-SDF, MD11 (Upgrade from A306)
UPS971, PDX-ONT, MD11 (Upgrade from A306)
UPS983, BFI-ONT, MD11 (Upgrade from 763)

UPS1083 EWR-SDF, Various (Depends on Day - MD11/741/742/A306/DC87)

Diversions:

ABX185, MCI-ILN, Divert DSM, enroute to ILN, DC93
ABX156 RST-ILN, Divert CID, enroute to ILN, DC94

-------------------------------------

If anyone wants to chime in with Fedex (i've had enough for tonight), go right ahead  Wink



Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

Well, it's official. The KHA flights are loaded, and going where we thought they would. As of tonight:

KHA 519 ILN-ELP Dep. 4:19a
KHA 589 ILN-GSO Dep. 4:39a
KHA 549 ILN-LAS Dep. 5:07a
KHA 704 ILN-MSP Dep. 5:11a
KHA 739 ILN-ORD Dep. 5:44

We'll see how they actually do.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 16):
Holiday cargo ops, fun stuff

Great list! How fun.

Re: DHL -- I thought that the 2000-series flights were usually rescue flights or short-term extra sections. I didn't realize that ABX2000, for example, was going to be a regular flight. If so, that's a happy use for a smoky 4-holer.

Re: UPS -- I'm always interested in seeing who else will join the team in the next few weeks. We've often seen the major charter players kick in an aircraft or two on a specific domestic route or routes for UPS.


User currently offlineWarszawa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 17):
I thought that the 2000-series flights were usually rescue flights or short-term extra sections. I didn't realize that ABX2000, for example, was going to be a regular flight. If so, that's a happy use for a smoky 4-holer.

You're right, the 2000 series flights are rescue flights/unscheduled. Shouldn't have used 'New Routes', hehe. Some of the UPS routes I posted are also probably rescue flights (particularly the ones with the oddball flight numbers, say 9xxx, 4xxx, etc.), though most are the typical year-round holiday flights.

It'll be interesting whom UPS partners up with this holiday season, very true. Probably a mix of everyone; Tradewinds, Southern Air, BAX, ATI, Capitol Cargo, Murray Air, and a few others.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 17):

KHA 519 ILN-ELP Dep. 4:19a
KHA 589 ILN-GSO Dep. 4:39a
KHA 549 ILN-LAS Dep. 5:07a
KHA 704 ILN-MSP Dep. 5:11a
KHA 739 ILN-ORD Dep. 5:44

Awesome, i'm particularly curious about nonstop    LAS flight, particularly during even heavier lift periods, though we'll see 

[Edited 2007-11-20 00:56:03]


Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2039 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2472 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Warszawa (Reply 18):
Awesome, i'm particularly curious about nonstop LAS flight, particularly during even heavier lift periods, though we'll see

Kitty Hawk routinely flew the 733's from FWA to many west coast destinations non-stop, including, but not limited to SFO, SEA, SAN, etc. This will not be a big issue, especially to LAS.


User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2461 times:



Quoting Warszawa (Reply 18):
Awesome, i'm particularly curious about nonstop LAS flight



Quoting Syncmaster (Reply 19):
Kitty Hawk routinely flew the 733's from FWA to many west coast destinations non-stop, including, but not limited to SFO, SEA, SAN, etc. This will not be a big issue, especially to LAS.

 checkmark 

I have flown KHA 733's from FWA to the west coast with Charlie (Syncmaster), and it is not a problem. Weight is usually not an issue, as cargo aircraft typically "bulk out" before they get over grossed. That means there is physically no more space for cargo, even though the max weight hasn't been reached.

Looks like this will breathe a tiny bit of life into KHA, but it appears to be more of a test drive for ABX / AStar. It is way too early to tell what the future holds for the 'Hawk. All I know is I will have a nice writeoff this year from my (worthless) KHK stock. Thankfully, I didn't put my nest egg into it.

It's really sad to think that this time last year we were gearing up for the 40 flights per day, and the ramp at FWA was full of 747's, DC10's, and all kinds of other heavy metal. Now the only thing there is tumbleweed. Very depressing.

Drew  wave 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

Well, they all got off last night, albeit some of them well after 6am. Looks like the tail end of the sort was down at least 30 minutes last night at ILN; indeed as large a number of flights left after 6am as I have seen in a long time.

Let's hope that it wasn't a cluster with the KHA jets holding up the container porters the way the DHL aircraft held up the contianer porters back in the integration days. There might have been higher volume last night, but it's hard to see any particular reason that so many flights went out after 6am. (Several of the KHA flights were among them.)


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5368 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2207 times:

Tonight's Kitty Hawk update:

KHA339 ORD-ILN Proposed Dep. 10:06p actual 11:22p
KHA149 LAS-ILN Proposed Dep. 6:45p actual 7:46p
KHA304 MSP-ILN Proposed Dep. ?? actual 9:14p
KHA189 GSO-ILN Proposed Dep. ?? actual 10:49p
KHA119 ELP-ILN Proposed Dep. 7:50p actual 10:26p

At least a couple of the flights departed later than planned, which isn't surprising on the first day of operation back from the outstation, and all but one will arrive well within the normal arrival window for flights to ILN, which usually goes until about 2:30am local time. However, the last one listed, at 2.5 hours behind schedule from ELP, is problematic insofar as it's going to arrive around 3:15am or later, which means that it basically comes in an hour later than the last flight from any other carrier, and either won't connect all of its cargo or will potentially slow some departures, which technically start to roll out of ILN a little after 3:30 (continuing, if done on schedule, until just before 6am). Myriad potential reasons for its late departure; only DHL knows whose "fault" it is and if it was preventable.


User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2039 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2101 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 22):
Tonight's Kitty Hawk update:

Back in the days of Kitty Hawk's own operation they routinely missed the "proposed" departure time, I think it has more to do with KHA flight ops not scheduling the correct times than anything, not that it is actually late. Although I may be wrong.

-Charlie


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