Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Unidentified 777-200ERs : Who?  
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10552 times:

There is often speculation here about the "unidentified" orders on Boeing's ordersheet but one seems to me to be particularly interesting.

In March Boeing sold five 777-200ERs. No engine choice has been announced.

(This was just four days after BA ordered 4 x 777-200ER but I very much doubt if the two orders are connected.)

Should we assume that this order is a top-up from an existing customer? It seems improbable that a new operator would choose the 772ER. (Though it's not impossible.)

So which existing airline is adding to their fleet?

My own guesses?

All Nippon (they are good at buying planes in small numbers and are often initially "unidentified")
PIA (remember that much of their fleet has been banned from Europe)

Might NZ be adding more?
Thai?
Could El Al use five more?
CO?
KL?
Either of the Korean operators?

Who can we rule out?

AF
UA
SQ
AA
DL
EK

Anyone got any better ideas?

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10491 times:

Good Question. I can't think of one of those above mentioned airlines that would be better served picking up 5 more 772ERs than the others.

I think its ANA or AF. Maybe CO wants to keep growing out of EWR and wants 5 more. No way El Al takes 5 more. UA and AA should buy at least 6 773ERs, put them on their best routes with new premium interiors.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10491 times:

AA can almost certainly be ruled out. They still have a few more on order, and any new aircraft orders will be for an MD80 replacement or a 767/A300 replacement (ie. 787 or A350).

User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1025 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10463 times:

I would rule out CO as their quarterly report does not identify these, not that they do not need them. Could also be a leasing company with flexibility to change models as customers are firmed up.

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10464 times:



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 2):
AA can almost certainly be ruled out. They still have a few more on order

...and pushed back for delivery in 2013 or something like that. I doubt if they'll ever receive the ones they have on order, far less order more.  Sad

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 1):
I think its ANA or AF.

AF? Perhaps you are right though I've been assuming that all future AF orders would be for the 2nd generation models.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10457 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 3):
Could also be a leasing company with flexibility to change models as customers are firmed up.

I doubt it. Leasing companies don't buy yesterday's planes. If it is a leasing company then they aren't buying 777-200ERs on spec but already have a taker. And that more or less takes us back to where we started.

Who?


User currently offlineImiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10353 times:



Quoting PM (Thread starter):
PIA (remember that much of their fleet has been banned from Europe)

Slight correction, most of the B747s and A310s have been cleared to fly to the EU since July. Unfortunately PK is up to it's eyeballs in debt so this order for PK is unlikely.


User currently offlineCessnalady From Mexico, joined May 2004, 310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10324 times:

Albeit 5 frames is a wee bit overboard, I wouldn't be surprised if these were ILFC's orders for AM. AM is in dire need for widebodies to reinforce MEX-NRT to 3x/week, upgrade MEX-EZE to 772 and/or increase frequencies (LF has been lingering on 90-100% on B762ERs for two months), upgrade MEX-CDG to 772 and, redeploy B762s to both the upcoming MEX-BCN opening and reinforcing MEX-SCL.

I believe 5 frames would be one or two too many for the foregoing plans, but hey, is just mere speculation. AM has a history of not disclosing orders until a few months before the a/c enter into revenue service.

My 2 cents.

Marie


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10273 times:



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 6):
Slight correction

Thank you.

Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 6):
most of the B747s and A310s have been cleared to fly to the EU since July

I wasn't aware of that. Looks like we can strike PK from my list.

Quoting Cessnalady (Reply 7):
I wouldn't be surprised if these were ILFC's orders for AM

Yes, maybe I should have had AM on my list of probables above. They are, after all, only in the early days of operating 777s - compared to many airlines who've had them for a decade and probably won't be adding to their fleets now.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10234 times:

why rule out DL? that way ATL-ICN,ATL-DXB can go 7x and then add ATL-JBN and ATL-HKG would that be 5 or 6? and that way they wouldn't have to waste a 77L on these routes in range of the 772ER then the 77Ls range can be better used (ATL-SYD,ATL-SIN)
and wouldnt that make you happy PM? more RR trents for Delta

[Edited 2007-11-17 19:47:56]


yep.
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10156 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
and wouldnt that make you happy PM? more RR trents for Delta

It would make me extremely happy! But all the signals are that DL sees the 772LR as its workhorse for its biggest long-haul routes. Agreed, that's more plane than they need for several routes but I just can't see them topping up their 772ER fleet. Shame.  Sad


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30565 posts, RR: 84
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10137 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

TG has taken two 77Es recently and there are two KE 77Es at PAE right now. So they might have added to their orders.

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9904 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
TG has taken two 77Es

If you don't mind my asking - is 77E a code for a -200ER?

As for the speculation: how about Varig rebuilding it's longhaul fleet? Or perhaps Air Austral - they seem to be in something of an expansion mode.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9878 times:



Quoting Leskova (Reply 12):
perhaps Air Austral

Such airlines did come to mind but five just seems too many. KQ, for example, might squeeze in one more - but not five.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4802 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9764 times:



Quoting PM (Thread starter):
Might NZ be adding more?

Is possible but unlikely. NZ has just ordered a bunch of 773ER to replace its 744. It does still have purchase rights to more 777 tho... I think they will however order the 7810 and top up their 773ER order and end the leases on their 772ERs around 2013.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineZTagged From Niger, joined Oct 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9757 times:

I ordered one, it's being delivered next week via FedEx.  rotfl 

DL I could see taking them, as well as AM. Who knows? Maybe they're just ghost orders.  biggrin 



Something awful.
User currently offlineFlyTUITravel From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9715 times:

Maybe they're for BI - lots about them close to ordering 777s in local press lately.

User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2131 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9688 times:

If the customer is a public company, then one would expect that major capex would be reported in quarterly or annual investor filings. ANA did not disclose a purchase like this in their annual report for fiscal year ending 31 March 2007. (Boeing records the order on 30 March). So it is probably not ANA.

By the way there are also the other mystery four unidentified -200LRs ordered this year, though there was some speculation that those -200LRs could be for Royal Brunei (who have recently been acquiring used 777-200ERs).



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9679 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 14):
Quoting PM (Thread starter):
Might NZ be adding more?

Is possible but unlikely. NZ has just ordered a bunch of 773ER to replace its 744. It does still have purchase rights to more 777 tho... I think they will however order the 7810 and top up their 773ER order and end the leases on their 772ERs around 2013.

NZ have said publicly that there are no new aircraft coming for long-haul until the 789s arrive. Mind you, they are short of capacity right now.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2131 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9658 times:

One other point of interest is that there were eight unidentified 787-8s ordered on the same day.
If it were the same customer that ordered the five 777-200ERs and eight 787-8s, would this help the speculation?



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

MH will announce an order in January:
Malaysia Al Will Buy New Planes In January (by FCKC Nov 18 2007 in Civil Aviation)



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9582 times:



Quoting PM (Thread starter):
PIA (remember that much of their fleet has been banned from Europe)

Why was PIA having issues with Europe? Were the maintenance checks (or something similar) not being done? Last time I was in LHR, in Oct, I thought I saw a PIA plane. Was I wrong?

I wouldn't be surprised by a DL order. They SERIOUSLY want to expand overseas. As others have pointed out, ref the CPT thread, this is a money maker for them. I could see DL wanting to expand the JFK -- DAK -- CPT route to a 777 or even the ATL -- JNB route......and, of course, there are other cities I'm sure they'd like to fly to. They've pulled alot of 767 off domestic routes in fav of international routes.

According to the Boeing website, DL has one order in for a 777......can you really order only one with the current expansion?

Unless DL plans to use 737s domestically and expand using 757s?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9529 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 21):
Why was PIA having issues with Europe? Were the maintenance checks (or something similar) not being done? Last time I was in LHR, in Oct, I thought I saw a PIA plane. Was I wrong?

No, the B777s have been flying to Europe more or less unhindered - it was the A310s and B747s that were banned, and that was for maintenance reasons.

There's been quite some "coverage" of all this around here...

EU Ban On All But 7 PIA Aircraft, Plans To Lease (by Legoguy Mar 8 2007 in Civil Aviation)
PIA, CAA Were Aware Of Serious Lapses (by Zshaheer Mar 15 2007 in Civil Aviation)
How Has PIA Been Doing With Recent Aircraft Ban? (by AlitaliaMD11 Apr 14 2007 in Civil Aviation)
PIA Looks To Reinstate More Flights To EU (by LIPZ Jul 4 2007 in Civil Aviation)
PIA Drop Frankfurt Also To Quit Chicago (by 777way Jul 31 2007 in Civil Aviation)

... just to name a few...  Wink



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3946 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9469 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 21):
I wouldn't be surprised by a DL order. They SERIOUSLY want to expand overseas. As others have pointed out, ref the CPT thread, this is a money maker for them. I could see DL wanting to expand the JFK -- DAK -- CPT route to a 777 or even the ATL -- JNB route......and, of course, there are other cities I'm sure they'd like to fly to. They've pulled alot of 767 off domestic routes in fav of international routes.

According to the Boeing website, DL has one order in for a 777......can you really order only one with the current expansion?

Delta has 2x 777-200LRs coming in Spring next year.

R


User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8081 times:

ok you guys are all wrong! My sources tell me they are for southwest! And its about time if you ask me!

25 Post contains links Stitch : Yes. DL converted their remaining 77E orders to 77Ls, so I don't expect them to be taking any more 77Es. There are rumors of Airbus scoring a major B
26 WestWing : Someone (Stich was it you?) reported that AVITAS data indicated that the purchase (not list) price of a -200LR was only 4% more than a -200ER because
27 Stitch : If you only fly 772s and 77Es with RR or PW power, buying 77Ls means you have to support GE power or sign a contract with someone to support it for y
28 Kaitak744 : Thats the key here. NO ENGINES ANNOUNCED. Means: new customer. On that same day: an unidentified order for 4 737-800s, and an unidentified order for
29 A340Spotter : Although I believe the B777-200 freighters are LR models, I believe these may have been the Cargo360.com order. They had some on order that weren't a
30 Post contains images Stitch : A 77F is based on the 77L airframe, so by default, a 77F is a 77L.
31 WestWing : Since your comment seemed to be directed at me, was there something in my post that led you to believe that I do not already know what you said? Yes,
32 Post contains images Stitch : It was because I didn't read it properly and didn't notice you said "77L/77W operator".
33 Post contains images Hamlet69 : Correct. Both the existing UFO 777-200ER orders (5 & 1) are from existing 777-200ER operators. Because DL is focusing their current int'l expansion s
34 WestWing : Are you at liberty to comment on the possibility that the customer for the single UFO may be identified within the next two weeks?
35 Post contains images Curticool : Holy Crap NO ENGINES! hope I don't fly this bird! LOL -Curticool
36 LH506 : There was an order for 4 738s, 5 772ERs and 8 787s on the same day. I do not see why these are not for the same airline. Kind of like 30 787s and 5 7
37 Post contains images FRNT787 : I think if GECAS (not GEACS ) were to order the 787, they would have made a very big deal about, and probably ordered more (seeing as how they have n
38 Post contains images Fyano773 : And 1 more on 10/2006: So, we have 6 unidentified 777-200ER orders, one with GE engines: As C-Lady mentioned, one of them could probably be delivered
39 Post contains images Hamlet69 : If they are going to be identified in the next few weeks, perhaps we should just wait. . . . Because they're not. Although I can't speak to the 737's
40 Adriaticus : Yes, perhaps a wee bit overboard, indeed, but things get interesting with the new AM ownership by Citigroup (not that they lack money) and their Mexi
41 Post contains images Flynavy : Yeah, just what I'd expect a "Delta Air Lines Pilot" to say. So, tell me Curticool - what kind of avionics system does a 777 utilize? Is your source
42 GARUDAROD : Five 777s would be just right for GARUDA. They have been looking for more widebodies, and have had the 777 and 787 on order. They just dont have the m
43 Dkny : Could ET be a candidate for these birds?
44 CHRISBA777ER : My understanding is that these will be for Royal Brunei - No word on engines yet, but am informed it WONT be P&W, which is interesting as their 777s t
45 Post contains images PM : Might you mean BWN ? My understanding is that they won't.
46 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Yes. Not what I've heard, but I guess its possible that someone else has ordered them and they arent the batch I'm thinking of. Probably better not t
47 Post contains images Hamlet69 : Remember that there are still a few other UFO 777 orders right now. The one we are talking about is the 5 777-200ER. Regards, Hamlet69
48 CHRISBA777ER : Yup - the Brunei ones I am thinking of are not a part of this order.
49 LH506 : I guess Brunei ordered 4 UFO 77Ls back in January, will help them on their non-stop to Europe plans
50 AM744 : We can only hope at least the GE engined is for AM.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AC 777 Domestic, Who Else Is Signing Up? posted Wed Mar 14 2007 15:16:53 by AvroArrow
Boeing - 20 Unidentified 777 Orders posted Thu Jun 1 2006 17:22:47 by NAV20
Headrests On Delta 767-400ERs And 777-200ERs posted Tue Jan 3 2006 01:54:07 by 1337Delta764
Unidentified 777 And 737 Orders posted Wed Dec 28 2005 16:40:05 by Luisca
El Al 777-200ERs Firm For 2007 Delivery. +Q... posted Tue Dec 13 2005 18:34:21 by DIA
More Detail On Unidentified 777 Order posted Sat Aug 6 2005 03:19:02 by Kaitak744
Recent Unidentified 767 Order: Who Is It? posted Tue Dec 7 2004 20:45:57 by Hoya
RG To Get Two More 777-200ERs posted Fri Aug 27 2004 18:55:40 by The777Man
Unidentified 777-300ER Orders posted Tue Jul 15 2003 19:37:17 by Luisca
KLM Orders 8 777-200ERs And 3 747-400FERs! posted Fri Mar 29 2002 04:47:30 by LOT767-300ER