BoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 56 Posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4916 times:
ADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 933 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4888 times:
Pardus did talk about that too.... but Pardus feels that UA/DL is better.
estimating that the latter deal would produce $1.5 billion in annual benefits, but said a United merger was the "most attractive and practical combination."
A Delta-United deal would be attractive for Pardus Capital.
The company owned 7 million Delta shares and 5.6 million United shares as of Sept. 30, according to the most recent filing.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8590 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4767 times:
it would be better for Pardus but NOT for UA and DL.......i do not see the feds letting the #2 and #3 (in the US) merge.Plus Delta wants to say Delta and stay in Atlanta. For that to happen NW will be the one. As far a there unions go as long as they keep the DL name then bye bye unions.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
MKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4686 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3): Plus Delta wants to say Delta and stay in Atlanta. For that to happen NW will be the one. As far a there unions go as long as they keep the DL name then bye bye unions.
Exactly. All I hear is that DL is looking to receive, not be received by someone else. It would make sense for DL and NW to go together Hub wise, and they have pretty similar fleets.
Quoting BoeingFever777 (Thread starter): Has some good points and with NW getting the 787's this would help DL and their international expansion efforts.
Exactly my point. NW and DL will have a very nice marriage.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8590 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4676 times:
i would also like to add this right from the CEO at Delta Air Lines "As long as I am CEO, there are certain conditions that are not negotiable," he said. "[The merged carrier] would be named Delta, the headquarters would remain in Atlanta, and the seniority rights of our people would be protected."
now I'm sure that DL would gladly take UA if they would give up the name, and ORD HQ and didn't try to f**k the delta work force.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
MKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4557 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 5): i would also like to add this right from the CEO at Delta Air Lines "As long as I am CEO, there are certain conditions that are not negotiable," he said. "[The merged carrier] would be named Delta, the headquarters would remain in Atlanta, and the seniority rights of our people would be protected."
now I'm sure that DL would gladly take UA if they would give up the name, and ORD HQ and didn't try to f**k the delta work force.
The UA-DL deal looks good too, but how would that shape up in places like JFK, or LGA?
Lexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2362 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4535 times:
Quoting MKE22 (Reply 4): Exactly my point. NW and DL will have a very nice marriage.
I agree totally. DL could benefit form the slots that NW controls in Asia more than anything else. Plus the stranglehold that KLM/NW have on AMS could be to DL's advantage with it's European network. I can see nothing that would really make this deal, DL & NW, that bad in the LONG RUN for both companies.
CALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2207 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4530 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 5): i would also like to add this right from the CEO at Delta Air Lines "As long as I am CEO, there are certain conditions that are not negotiable," he said. "[The merged carrier] would be named Delta, the headquarters would remain in Atlanta, and the seniority rights of our people would be protected."
And you don't think this is posturing? Of course,he has to say this, but the reality is that the CEO is to do what's best for the stockholders, and employees. Why is ATL so important and how important is a big name that's based on a regional identity? Regionally based names such as Piedmont, Allegheny, PSA, Eastern, Ozark, North Central, America West, NY Air, Texas International, Western, Air West, AirCal, Reno Air, etc. have all been absorbed into more global type names like, Untied, Continental, US Airways.
Regionally based names left are regionally based carriers like Alaska, Hawaiian, Aloha and Frontier while a few seem more national or global: Southwest, Northwest and Delta. A merged major international carrier of Delta and Northwest may best look for a new identity to be more global.
FXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7027 posts, RR: 93 Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4506 times:
I agree with the article. UA is a mess, but DL won't help them much. DL should go after NW.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4658 posts, RR: 45 Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4410 times:
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 9): Why is ATL so important and how important is a big name that's based on a regional identity?
While DL's roots started in the southern delta region, I think it is fair to say that the brand name is beyond regional now.
The brand has awareness and salience outside of the southeast and outside of the country as well.
Would you say the "Continental" name should change given it was original based off of serving the NA continent?
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2906 posts, RR: 28 Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4346 times:
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 11):
While DL's roots started in the southern delta region, I think it is fair to say that the brand name is beyond regional now.
The brand has awareness and salience outside of the southeast and outside of the country as well.
Would you say the "Continental" name should change given it was original based off of serving the NA continent?
In fact, I'd argue that "Delta" being a letter of the Greek alphabet and the universal "name" for the letter "D" in the aviation industry is more appropriate universally than just about any other U.S. airline name. In fact, my brief investigation reveals that "Delta" translates letter for letter in French, Spanish, Italian and of course Greek. I'll assume that this is true in all the Latin-based languages. Sounds like a perfect name for a global carrier!
Lrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 609 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4305 times:
Quoting MKE22 (Reply 4):
Exactly. All I hear is that DL is looking to receive, not be received by someone else. It would make sense for DL and NW to go together Hub wise, and they have pretty similar fleets.
A320/737,M90
A330,747/767,777
How is that similar? Yes, DC-9/M80 CRJ/CRJ, but still, its not exactly a common fleet!
Will never ever happen but DL/CO/AA, US/UA/NW these have more common fleets, with exception of NW,US/UA longhaul.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1991 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4278 times:
I just don't see why they would do that, there would be nothing to gain as their route maps are similar. I really think that if anything they will be making a run for NW. With the Skyteam ties and minimal route overlap, it seems to make the most sense. They could even pull a KLM/AF type merger where they could still keep both brands for a period of time.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4262 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3): it would be better for Pardus but NOT for UA and DL.......i do not see the feds letting the #2 and #3 (in the US) merge
DL-NW might actually have more regulatory trouble because of the coverage that NW and DL have on service in the panhandle, Alabama, and Mississippi. Remember that the government's problem with UA-US was NOT the size of the combined carrier but rather the combined carrier's presence at DCA (thus the idea of creating Capital Air).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
MKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4242 times:
Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 13): A320/737,M90
A330,747/767,777
How is that similar?
NW has some Airbus planes DL could sell, but they both still use Boeing equipment as well. And the CRJs once again, plus Their Hubs don't overlap whatsoever. NW- MSP,DTW,AMS,MEM,Tokyo DL- ATL,SLC,JFK,CVG,LAX
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3861 posts, RR: 11 Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4238 times:
Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 2): but Pardus feels that UA/DL is better.
estimating that the latter deal would produce $1.5 billion in annual benefits, but said a United merger was the "most attractive and practical combination."
For Pardus, since they have a significant stake in new investment for both carriers as they've emerged from chapter 11. I would have to say the opinion of the Pardus people is overly biased with their vested interest in both carriers. I think Michael Derchlin's comments come from a more strategic perspective, rather than the "make a fastest $$$" way of thinking. While it is a business, most executives beyond the original group of investors will look at longer term viability. While a UA+DL combination has some long term viability, the combination with NW offers the least resistance, and probably the least amount of pain.
Most analysts looking purely from the overall strategic point of view will find that DL+NW runs the least amount of friction with the USDOJ, and would probably eliminate the least amount of jobs right away. While I'm pretty sure they wouldn't follow the AF+KLM model (it would be more advantageous to merge completely under one operating certificate), they won't be under as much pressure as US+HP to consolidate their work groups. These same analysts looking strategically speaking for the last nearly 3 years have pointed towards a DL+NW merger as being the best for U.S. flag legacy carriers. This despite fleet commonality and work culture issues that can be worked out, especially if Boeing gets involved still further, which is why I think they came out in opposition the way they did to DL being sucked up by Doug Parker and his group.
[Edited 2007-11-18 15:21:33]
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
Evan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4238 times:
Phishphan70 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4202 times:
Exactly. All I hear is that DL is looking to receive, not be received by someone else. It would make sense for DL and NW to go together Hub wise, and they have pretty similar fleets.
A320/737,M90
A330,747/767,777
How is that similar? Yes, DC-9/M80 CRJ/CRJ, but still, its not exactly a common fleet!
Will never ever happen but DL/CO/AA, US/UA/NW these have more common fleets, with exception of NW,US/UA longhaul.
i am trying to understand why people say DL and NW have "similar" fleet types. 757's, and as said above, the CRJ's and DC-9's/MD's are similar, but as much as i hate to say it, and how many people think we'll be riding them until the year 3000, but the DC-9's are going to be gone before too long because of maintenance and that little thing called fuel prices.
DL and UA though have Really similar fleets. 737's, 757's 767's 777's, RJ's just to name a few...and an increase in intl capacity (meaning far more 777's for DL, and UA's 744's) would really be beneficial to DL. Now with all of that said, i honestly can't say i expect this to go through because DL's pride and wanting to keep name and location...but when i heard this first being talked about, i thought it was a no-brainer success. With UA having such a strong Asian network with a west coast hub in SFO, and DL having a massive European presence along with UA's Europe network, basing European services mainly out of JFK, ORD and/or IAD could really put DL/UA in a new league and give them the opportunity to offer a better product worldwide.
oh, and not to be left out....Pardus owns a combined 12.6 million shares of these two airlines, which is a Huge influence on their actions, and hopefully will lead them to each other in the end!!!
Jimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 640 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4194 times:
Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 2): The company owned 7 million Delta shares and 5.6 million United shares as of Sept. 30, according to the most recent filing.
I bothered looking this up--that translates to 2.5% of Delta and 4.8% of United.
According the the major holders page off of Yahoo finance, that 4.8% is a big fish in regards to United shareholders. Not so much with Delta, which has some very big shareholders (JP Morgan has 21% of Delta shares.)
I guess the politics of it all can go different ways. All Pardus needs to do is convince a few shareholders with Delta (between JP Morgan and the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp they've got 46% down), but might face a more complex task with United.
Of course, I have no idea if the PBC would vote for or against a merger, since they are kind of a governmental agency.
CALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2207 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4084 times:
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 12): In fact, I'd argue that "Delta" being a letter of the Greek alphabet and the universal "name" for the letter "D" in the aviation industry is more appropriate universally than just about any other U.S. airline name. In fact, my brief investigation reveals that "Delta" translates letter for letter in French, Spanish, Italian and of course Greek. I'll assume that this is true in all the Latin-based languages. Sounds like a perfect name for a global carrier!
I guess we all learn something new everyday. If international travelers think Delta was named after the 4th letter of the Greek alphabet, then you've got a new advertising campaign. In fact, the other majors should change their names to be more global: United = Upsilon, Continental = Kappa, Northwest = Nu and American = Alpha.
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 11): Would you say the "Continental" name should change given it was original based off of serving the NA continent?
If Delta can be interpreted to be a Greek letter regardless of the airline's origin, than CO can surely relate to being European as one of the word "continental's" definitions is "pertaining to the mainland of Europe, to Europeans, or to European customs and attitudes." "Continental breakfasts" are European.. Since another definition applies to the NA continent, what could be better for an American airline flying between continents?
Additionally, (found on a website) "Continental Philosophy" stresses current work drawing upon philosophical texts and traditions originating on European grounds (since Hegel, Marx, and Nietzsche). "Continental philosophy" as a style of philosophizing has not closed itself off. In fact, continental philosophy operates in terms of an orientation toward openness."
Wow, European and American continents with an open philosophy - sounds like a perfect name for an international airline.
At this stage of the game that would be sort of like pursuing a date with a social disease. US has issues to deal with before anyone looks at them seriously. 2c
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 5): and the seniority rights of our people would be protected."
That could be out of his hands.
Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 13): A320/737,M90
A330,747/767,777
How is that similar?
With the size of the combined fleet in some of these merger possibilities, equipment similarities/differences aren't paramount to success, or possibly even an issue.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
Gsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3596 times:
Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 2): but Pardus feels that UA/DL is better
Pardus is only concerned about what is good for Pardus. Ignore any and everything else coming from them.
25 Super80DFW: Well, there is no way they would have 10 HUBS! They would dump CVG, MEM, and SLC right away anyway. AMS would help the Europe Expansion. Tokyo would
26 Bobnwa: Why would DL/UA keep the JFK hub, but DL/NW would drop it.
27 BigOrange: We have NW with DC9, A319, A320, A330, B747, B757 We have DL with 737, 757, 767, 777 How is that similar fleets. Now look at CO and DL and NW and UA
28 EXAAUADL: of course becasue Pardus can make more money out of UA/DL than our of DL/NW regardless of which merger actually makes sense....please dont post Padru
29 Super80DFW: Because NW's DTW hub would cover that I thought.
30 MEMbase: Dump CVG and MEM and run all that volume through....where? Certainly they aren't going to eliminate that much capacity. And how much more can they cr
31 SPREE34: But he's not. He's running his trap about an action that happens every evening about sunset and holidays already.
32 4everRC: Can someone, ANYONE explain to me (and be nice please, I'm tired of snotty responses to questions on this site) why it seems to be assumed that if NW
33 EXAAUADL: DALAP called Pardus what they should be called: a maurading hedge fund.
34 Rwy04LGA: And yet, the ATL underground shuttle system refers to Terminal D as 'D, as in David'. I guess the other airlines thought that naming it Delta would b
36 SPREE34: Nobody really knows. Until some sort of deal actually happens we won't know.
37 4everRC: I understand that. My point is that it seems to be a given in many people's opinion on a.net that if NW is involved in a merger of any kind, that the
38 ER757: Good question - just taking a guess here as I can't really speak for others, but maybe it's because NW is in such poor financial shape that the thoug
39 Eghansen: I don't understand why everyone in ths forum and in Wall Street seems to feel that an airline must be gargantuan to survive. Many of the world's succe
40 Bobnwa: Compared to what airline, is NWA in "such poor financial shape"? During the last two quarters, NWA has led the industry in profit margin, has sizeabl
41 Jetlanta: Actually, even taxiways in ATL are referred to as "David". It's actually to eliminate confusion, in both cases.
42 Bucky707: Taxiway D in ATL is referred to as "Dixie" not "David".
43 BHMBAGLOCK: Alabama should not be a problem. There are only two airports where either carrier is dominant and that's because they're the only choice. A merger wo
44 SLCUT2777: SLC would stay in a DL+NW merger since it is an interior west strategic point of connection. However in a UA+DL scenario, SLC would be dumped in favo
45 Bucky707: Not taking shots at you SLC, but I always laugh when I hear about eliminating capacity is part of a merger. What do you think would happen if DL and
46 DeltaL1011man: yea the largest TATL carrier(of the US carriers) and #2 in the Latin American carrier but no one has ever heard of Delta? sure hope your joking with
47 CALPSAFltSkeds: I was being a little tongue in cheek, but I find it even funnier that another post related Delta to the 4th letter of the Latin language instead of t
48 KarlB737: Here is another twist for the mix................................ Courtesy: Reuters United Airlines L00king For A Merger http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/07112
49 Philly65: " target=_blank>http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/071122/unite...?.v=4 I wish UAL would just get on with it already. I think everyone is convinced the manageme
50 IliriBDL: Here is an article from businessweek talking about United. http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/.../db20071120_389009.htm?chan=search
51 Alias1024: I feel that DL/UA is a much better combination that DL/NW. A merger with NW doesn't give the dominance up and down the west coast that DL/UA could. UA
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