Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
When Will We See Europe - HNL Non-stop Service?  
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12909 times:

At the current time there is enough traffic to support non-stop service at least five days a week between either LON or FRA and HNL. Germany and England together provide sufficent numbers to make the venture worthwhile. With the advent of the 772ER the aircaft is certainly there to fly the route over the pole.


Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4676 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12894 times:

Traffic is one thing, yield is another. HNL is mainly vacation traffic, which is in general lower yielding. Lack of Business/First passengers will give you a hard time to operate the flight profitable. Routing your passengers through mainland hubs makes more sense.


For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineSpencerII From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12873 times:

In answer to the posters question When? Probably not in the near future. With codeshare and Hawaii yields, It is not the best way or wisest way to place your resources---It would require to aircraft devoted entirely to that operation, and I cannot see anyone committing an aircraft such as what you are talking about to anything like that.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12836 times:

I can't see a major airline operating Europe-HNL nonstop. Maybe a charter/leisure carrier but even there yield would be low. It's also too far for one aircraft to operate a roundtrip in 24 hours and dedicating 2 aircraft to a low yield route like with virtually no business traffic would be a poor use of resources especially with current fuel prices. Connections via the many Hawaii gateways in the US and Canada works better and much of that kind of traffic would want to make a stopover enroute anyway.

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12786 times:

You'd be very lucky to get a European non-charter carrier to fly direct services to Hawaii - hell, even AA and UA both claim they only fly to Hawaii to keep the frequent flyers happy - they need somewhere to burn miles. The routes don't yield much, they're long and expensive with very little local traffic coming the other way. Routes from Japan make money because of sheer volume.

User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12766 times:

Maybe a airline like NZ might and continue its flight through to LHR as it could still fill any empty seats with passengers from AKL to LHR and still get the yields as passengers between HNL and LHR would be the icing on the cake for the service .. A service like that would also help the AKL-HNL leg to and get it to daily ..


"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12677 times:



Quoting SpencerII (Reply 2):
In answer to the posters question When? Probably not in the near future.

It's been discussed many times.

There are those here that actively dismiss it out of hand because it doesn't exist now, because europeans would rather go elsewhere, that if they go to HNL they also want to go the Los Angeles, that the connecting flights through the USA are almost as convenient anyway etc. etc. (despite being confronted with tourist numbers and aircraft schedules that say otherwise).

The real problem is the most likely candidate city would be London (due to language considerations and historical considerations), and such flights CAN'T exist under Bermuda 2 without another city pair being dropped. Further, for the longest time, only a 747 could do the job, and that was too big.

But now Bermuda 2 is dead and smaller long range aircraft exist (or soon will).

SRB has said he would likely launch HNL service in the future, and it's likely a matter of when they get enough 787s to make that route the best route to add. Or it's even feasible that they put A343s on the route while they use the newer planes for other routes. We'll see.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/04/25/business/story01.html



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12650 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
SRB has said he would likely launch HNL service in the future, and it's likely a matter of when they get enough 787s to make that route the best route to add. Or it's even feasible that they put A343s on the route while they use the newer planes for other routes. We'll see.

But even if he does, hows he going to get good yields, I am struggling to believe that up front will be a major money maker, but as you say, we'll see but IMHO we will be waiting a hell of a long time before we see this route open up.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12629 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 7):
But even if he does, hows he going to get good yields, I am struggling to believe that up front will be a major money maker, but as you say, we'll see but IMHO we will be waiting a hell of a long time before we see this route open up.

Very good question - it's ALL leisure traffic. Even convention traffic is almost entirely continental US-based. Hawaii is a VERY long way away from Europe, it's a helluva long flight. There's no need to travel that far when you can get essentially the same experience in Jamaica or the Domincan Republic for much less money. And if you HAVE to have a beach holiday in the U.S., there's always Florida.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25049 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12582 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
It's been discussed many times.

Sigh yes....

UK/Europe - Honolulu Non-stop? (by CHRISBA777ER Feb 13 2007 in Civil Aviation)
Any Demand For A Europe To HNL Non-stop Service? (by N593HA Sep 10 2005 in Civil Aviation)
Europe To Hawaii Nonstop? (by HALFA Feb 17 2004 in Civil Aviation)


I guess some people dont give up on the dream and fail to accept the many reasons why a service (particularly a scheduled one) is not right around the corner.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12373 times:

Actually, once the 787-9 arrives it is very likely to happen.

Air New Zealand can't operate any more Auckland-London Heathrow services via California but can use other US intermediate points, and using Honolulu would work well from the following points of view:

1. AKL-LHR passengers would fill the high yield seats, while AKL-HNL and HNL-LHR passengers would fill the back of the plane.

2. It would offer AKL-LHR passengers totally new departure time options (services via LAX leave in early evening and via HKG leave around midnight, while a service via HNL would depart early in the morning from both AKL and LHR.)

And by the way, if Virgin Atlantic open the route they are likely to use their Manchester / Gatwick - configured 787-9, with a seat count likely to be roughly 16 Upper Class / 64 Premium Economy / 200 Economy, which would use Premium Economy demand to retain high-yields.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12299 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 8):
Very good question - it's ALL leisure traffic.

Except when it's not.

There is cargo, and there are conventions.

And Las Vegas and Orlando are "all leisure traffic" (also a fallacy) yet they make it to europe.

The reason it doesn't exist now is because the city that makes the most sense, London, can't have service because of a stupid treaty. But that ends in 4 months.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
I guess some people dont give up on the dream and fail to accept the many reasons why a service (particularly a scheduled one) is not right around the corner.

That's a nice spin on something that is by no means settled.

And service does seem "right around the corner" in aviation terms at least, it's just will it be profitable?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12282 times:



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
You'd be very lucky to get a European non-charter carrier to fly direct services to Hawaii - hell, even AA and UA both claim they only fly to Hawaii to keep the frequent flyers happy

That is ABSOLUTELY untrue.

Both AA and UA have repeatedly said that they serve Hawaii because it is massively profitable for them. Hawaii traffic may be leisure, but it is far from low yield. Try getting a cheap ticket to HNL on either.

NS


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6311 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12244 times:

No offense, but...Hawaii isn't really that great. Europeans have a lot of better places to go to in southern Europe/northern Africa, and even the Caribbean, than Hawaii. Add that to the 7200+ mi. trip LHR-HNL (compared to just over 4000 mi LHR-SXM as a random Caribbean destination I picked), and...well...not going to happen. Japanese go to Hawaii, Europeans don't.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12199 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 12):
Both AA and UA have repeatedly said that they serve Hawaii because it is massively profitable for them. Hawaii traffic may be leisure, but it is far from low yield. Try getting a cheap ticket to HNL on either.

That is probably largely related to the use of smaller aircraft (e.g. many 757s and now 737s) by US carriers serving Hawaii, compared to 747s, L1011s and DC-10s on virtually all flights a few years ago. Domestic routes to Hawaii also have at least some business traffic (probably not much) paying the highest fares, while there would be almost none Europe-Hawaii. The much longer nonstop distance would also be more costly to operate especially at current fuel prices since you burn quite a bit of fuel just to carry the extra fuel required for a 15 hour sector. Rules would no doubt also require a double crew (2 relief pilots) and more than one night's crew rest at the turnaround point for both cockpit and cabin crew on such a long sector.

I think most carriers would find it more profitable to use the aircraft on 2 roundtrips on 6 to 8 hour sectors in the same time it would take the aircraft to get from Europe to Hawaii and back.

If Europe-Hawaii was lucrative, considering all the US-Europe open-skies markets that already exist, airlines would already be doing it. It seems that they consider it more lucrative to code-share with their alliance partners.


User currently offlineBAKJet From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12170 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 10):
Air New Zealand can't operate any more Auckland-London Heathrow services via California

Why not?


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12164 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 13):
No offense, but...Hawaii isn't really that great. Europeans have a lot of better places to go to in southern Europe/northern Africa, and even the Caribbean, than Hawaii. Add that to the 7200+ mi. trip LHR-HNL (compared to just over 4000 mi LHR-SXM as a random Caribbean destination I picked), and...well...not going to happen. Japanese go to Hawaii, Europeans don't.

No offence, but that's nonsense.

Firstly, Honolulu is less than an hour further away (440 miles further) from London than Singapore, yet Britons go in their masses to all sorts of places in Thailand, Malaysia or Indochina.

The only reason they don't go to Honolulu ANY MORE is because flying via LAX or ORD adds an extra five or six hours to the trip.

Secondly, more than twice as many Britons visited Honolulu in 1986 than 2006. Have you stopped to wonder why? The answer is that 747 classics and DC-10s needed to make refuelling stops across the Pacific, and passengers from Australia and New Zealand to the UK (and vice versa) jumped at the chance of a stopover in Hawaii. But now that those airplanes overfly Hawaii, those sorts of passengers are no longer catered for.

Lastly, as someone who has been to multiple Caribbean islands and all across Spain, Italy and France, I am astonished by your assertion. Most Caribbean islands are charmless barren American condo building sites (hello Aruba and St Maarten). Southern Europe is great, if you can afford high Euro prices, don't mind surly service and aren't upset by being pickpocketed. Waikiki may be built up but have you been to the other islands? Different strokes for different folks: Hawaii is a nice destination if you want to combine natural beauty with freedom from petty crime, beggars and hawkers trying to sell you postcards and souvenirs on the beach. And you can drink the water and need no shots, which isn't true in southeast Asia.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12150 times:

Quoting BAKJet (Reply 15):
Quoting Koruman (Reply 10):
Air New Zealand can't operate any more Auckland-London Heathrow services via California

Why not?

Because although the NZ-UK bilateral allows unlimited services into any LHR airport it specifies one service per day via LAX or SFO. This is also reflected in the NZ-US bilateral.

That is why Air New Zealand has just opened up AKL-YVR as a new service which will be extended on to London when there is demand for a third daily AKL-LHR flight, and it is why NZ5/6 AKL-LAX is highly likely to be extended on to Manchester.

The options for an eventual fifth and sixth daily flight from Auckland to the UK are Shanghai (except the transit experience there is so horrible that that is on indefinite hold) and, once the 787-9 is online, either AKL-PER-LHR or AKL-HNL-LHR. To be honest, when AKL-PVG was opened it was fully expected that it would soon continue on to LHR, but the check-in / immigration / security / transit situation at Shanghai is so aversive that Vancouver was conjured up as an alternative.

Demand between the UK and New Zealand is doubling every three years, and Air NZ's existing double daily 747-400 services will be replaced with smaller 777-300ERs, so current planning for Air New Zealand is for four daily services by 2011 and six daily services by 2013.

[Edited 2007-11-18 17:48:09]

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11990 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 16):
Firstly, Honolulu is less than an hour further away (440 miles further) from London than Singapore

You should have clarified this a bit to avoid confusion. According to the Great Circle Mapper, LHR-HNL is 6289 nm if flown as a North/Northwest-South/Southeast route, while LHR-SIN is 5879 nm if flown as a West-East route. That's a difference of 410 nm or roughly 472 statute miles.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25049 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11888 times:

Lets get some facts on the table regarding Hawaii travel from Europe which can help as a reality check to show its a rather thin market.

In 2006 of 7.6mil visitors to Hawaii mere 104,841 (1.3%) were from Europe. Of this 54.2% were from the UK, and 24.6% from Germany. Arrivals had strong seasonality with 2-1 swing from the peak month to lowest month.

Demographically wise, largest group was 25-40 years olds with wedding and honeymoon travel being one of the primary drivers. Average daily spending was $168, somewhat in the middle of the pact for all visitors, however on the lower end of international ones. Of European travellers 69% were 1st visitors, the 2nd lowest rate of return visitors. 71.3% stayed on Oahu (cheapest isle). Just over 1/2 were on air+hotel package holidays.

So, to sum up the European Hawaii traveller, they are a younger budget conscious traveller whom make the trip once in their lives often related to a honeymoon/wedding

So can a dedicated Europe-HNL flight be supported with only 287 average daily visitors from all over Europe with rather weak(cheap) demographics??

In addition I am near certain many of these travellers also add in US mainland destinations as part of their trips, so there is no guarantee they would even be interested in a nonstop only service even if you could corral them to a single European departure point.

Data source: HVCB

[Edited 2007-11-18 20:48:38]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11569 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 17):
Demand between the UK and New Zealand is doubling every three years, and Air NZ's existing double daily 747-400 services will be replaced with smaller 777-300ERs, so current planning for Air New Zealand is for four daily services by 2011 and six daily services by 2013.

I didn't realise that planning at NZ was down to this level of detail at this stage. I'm assuming that this info comes from a reliable source? Does the "6x daily by 2013" include all European services, or just LHR? I assume all Euro services? And is YVR accepted within NZ as the next transit point for Europe? If confirmed, this is an interesting timetable for NZ expansion - but before I invest too much emotional energy in it, I do want to be sure that it's kosher info!



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineHMan From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10943 times:



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 19):
So, to sum up the European Hawaii traveller, they are a younger budget conscious traveller whom make the trip once in their lives often related to a honeymoon/wedding

Here in Europe Hawaii vacations are usually considered very expensive. If you go to your travel agency you very well spend 5000 EUR for two weeks. That's why many people don't even consider it.

Airlines do offer good deals, but nobody seems do know about this. I went to Hawaii last year with a couple friends just for fun and spent 800 EUR for the flights TXL-JFK-LAX-OGG-LAX-JFK-TXL on DL. Everybody was astonished about this. Sure this trip was a pain in the a** as it took 40hrs out there and 22hrs on the return. A direct flight would cut the travel times significantly and could probably gain a lot "high yielding" economy traffic through the travel agencies.

On the other hand, I enjoyed not to have that many Germans or any other foreign group of tourists around. At least most of the time, until we got to Oahu  Wink.


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days ago) and read 10898 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Koruman (Reply 10):
Air New Zealand can't operate any more Auckland-London Heathrow services via California but can use other US intermediate points, and using Honolulu would work well from the following points of view:

I wasn't aware of that point. Can I ask you the reason why ?

Thx;



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days ago) and read 10878 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

How about HKG - HNL nonstop service!? That would be nice too. Perhaps with the 773ERs coming to CX, they can shift an A330 to daily HNL service!

Does Hawaii advertise itself to the European tourist--has it done anything to drive up tourism from there? If not, and with no major airline based there, it will most likely have to be a charter airline. Then the question becomes, what does Hawaii offer that the Caribbean or Mediterranean doesn't? What's the hook to have someone trapped in a 18hr flight (what would it be in a direct polar route???)?

There would not be a lot of premium traffic on that route either.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlinePohakuloa From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days ago) and read 10713 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 12):
That is ABSOLUTELY untrue.

Both AA and UA have repeatedly said that they serve Hawaii because it is massively profitable for them. Hawaii traffic may be leisure, but it is far from low yield. Try getting a cheap ticket to HNL on either.

NS

indeed...and as for hawaii residents going towards the mainland or europe, on average it is far more expensive for us to travel away from hawaii than it is for anyone else to travel to hawaii. almost double on a one way basis via many airlines on a HNL-west coast destination!



Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
25 Bofredrik : How long would the total flying time incl (1 hour stop ?) be between for example LHR-HNL-AKL compared with LHR-HKG-AKL?
26 Post contains images OHLHD : Maybe there are enough people to travel this route but a non-stop would be much more expensive and the ultra longhaul segment is rather for business
27 Koruman : Interesting that you should ask. Auckland to London via Honolulu is 57 miles shorter than via Hong Kong (the existing NZ38/39) and 334 miles shorter
28 DavidByrne : I've always thought of HNL-YYZ as being potentially very difficult, given that NZ couldn't make YVR work via HNL. They won't want to extend to YVR in
29 Scbriml : Yes, but how many attend those conventions from Europe? I suspect the numbers are very small.
30 Koruman : I think you might have hit the nail on the head there. Auckland-San Francisco only opened 2 years ago as 3x weekly and has already been a daily servi
31 Flylku : This is spot on. Perhaps, but UA serves many of the Hawaii routes with specially configured, high density 777s (two class) and the domestic version o
32 Etops1 : that's a real long haul . it's roughly 6296 nm between london anf honolulu going westbound. i am flying it right now on my flt sim using a virgin 747-
33 KL911 : Last week when Arkefly ( Holland) received their new 737-800 an executive said that when they receive their 787's HNL is serious option to fly it to,
34 Itsnotfinals : This is one of the longest running fallacies on Anet. FF tickets are extremely limited to Hawaii on all airlines. you contradicted yourself here. Vol
35 JGPH1A : No but in the absence of one, the other is acceptible if costs can be kept down. Everyone I've spoken to in Revenue Management at AA and UA say the r
36 Incitatus : Would you be able to demonstrate this with numbers and source? Also, non-HNL will be no better off. For example, Maui traffic on LHR-HNL will have to
37 Itsnotfinals : It would be nice to see some facts, since UA seems to tie up over a billion dollars of assets every day to fly to and from Hawaii, that is highly dou
38 JRadier : Not totally true. Volume does indeed not replace yield, but if you have loadfactors close to a 100% yields can be lower to cover the costs. So if the
39 B777a340fan : Hmmm...you can't really compare going to Thailand, Malaysia, and Indochina with Hawaii. First, like you said, the trip is shorter. Even if you're tal
40 Itsnotfinals : That is called yield management. the airlines use very sophisticated algorithms to maximize yield and Hawaii flights are no exception. You operate fl
41 FlyLKU : One other wild card ... the strength of the Euro. Demand for travel to the U.S. as a tourist destination will grow in proportion to the weakness of th
42 COSPN : HKG and SIN would make more sense SQ used to fly to HNL guess droped because of low yeild...
43 AirPacific747 : If you go to Tahiti, then why not also Hawaii? Tahiti is just as commercial and expensive as Hawaii is.
44 Laxintl : With US tourism arrivals about to set a record in 2007, conventional wisdom would indicate Hawaii would get its slice of the pie as well. In reality
45 Arrow : Interesting side note to this: there's a growing level of traffic on the YVR-HNL,OGG routes from Hawaiians wanting to ski at Whistler in the winter.
46 JRadier : It is, and I don't think I believe I said anything else. But the point I was trying to make it to explain why volume can offset a lower yield. I neve
47 ORDagent : It is only a matter of time before we get Europe-Hawaii nonstops. The vactioning public in the U.K. and Germany in particular witll demand it. It star
48 LGAtoIND : You are correct, but realize that real life adds more complexities than your argument presents. For instance, perhaps if UA decided tomorrow to end a
49 MDL21483 : Using an operating cruise speed of 490KTS: LHR-HKG 57°(NE) 5209 nm 10:38 HKG-AKL 135°(SE) 4943 nm 10:05 total in-air time LHR-HKG-AKL: 20:43 LHR-HN
50 EWRCabincrew : IIRC, Western flew HNL-ANC-LGW.
51 CALPSAFltSkeds : That was a winner. A DC10-10 that usually had more Flight Attendants (double crew due to union agreement) than passengers on the LGW-ANC leg. Another
52 Laxintl : Keep in mind also, Hawaii barely has East Coast flights As is only CO manages a single daily EWR-HNL, while DL is doing 2x ATL-HNL. Thats it. Look inl
53 CALPSAFltSkeds : It might make sense for NZ to try the market on a less than daily operation. I'm kind of surprised to see that NZ only flies AKL-HNL twice a week. It
54 Post contains links Sokol : From Europe to Hawaii (From: LHR-FRA-CDG-AMS) I would say the best way is one-stop via Anchorage ANC. London to Honolulu Frankfurt to Honolulu Amsterd
55 EWRCabincrew : CO has done HHN-HNL and FRA-HNL for charters on the 772. Our flights 61 (BRU), 57 (CDG), 81 (GVA), 69 (ARN), 21 (MAN), 75 (HAM), 123 (CPH) (to name a
56 HNL-Jack : Interesting responses. It is a fact that Hawaii is a leisure market, but yields are sometimes greater than average yield over the North Atlantic. Fir
57 BlueShamu330s : The problem is though, that whilst you might get a few Y pax doing that, the average year-round fare for, let's say, MAN-HNL on CO in J is approx. £
58 Itsnotfinals : there are literally 100's of variables that go into route and yield management. FF desire for a route is just one very small piece of the pie.
59 JRadier : I want to know where you buy your Euro's as I would be happy to get my dollars there for my next vacation (not Hawaii, sorry). The rate is 1:1.46 EUR
60 B777A340Fan : I guess it's personal.... I would choose Tahiti over Hawaii any day. White beaches and clear blue water. Ahhhh. True, but we can't really deduce on t
61 SLCUT2777 : Which is why DL is shifting service to the outer islands away from SLC to LAX. The Dominican Republic has siphoned away a significant chunk of the Ca
62 JRadier : While I'm not from the UK, that might be a bit much. 7-14 day vacations are the most common in western Europe.
63 SLCUT2777 : Perhaps from CDG/AMS-SXM that would most likely be correct, but typically when the U.K. folks go to the D.R., it usually lasts 3 weeks if not more fo
64 Nzrich : Yes but the one advantage of NZ operating the route is if they cant fill the seats AKL-HNL and HNL-LHR than there is a massive market to fill those s
65 Koruman : Sure. But Air New Zealand charges 3,100 pounds for a Business Class return to Australia or New Zealand (using Virgin's Upper Class suite) and the far
66 Bobnwa : If you are in HNL tomorrow Nov 20 at 423p look up and you will see NW809 a A332 coming in non-stop from MSP.
67 BlueShamu330s : Yes, I'm with you on that point. If I was travelling to AKL or SYD, had time to spare, and there was the option of stopping over for a few days at HN
68 Bluewave 707 : Isn't UAL934/935 a HNL-LAX-LGW segment? I have come across quite a few European visitors here in Honolulu, maybe not in droves, but they do travel her
69 Itsnotfinals : it is an aircraft change in LAX. the LHR-LAX portion has the international Biz. the HNL flight is domestic config with no J and domestic F.
70 Koruman : That's my point really. We know from the experience of the 70s and 80s compared with today that Europeans will visit Hawaii if it is a convenient sto
71 AussieItaliano : That's only necessary if the route went daily. I'm sure that a 3x/week might be considered until the route proved itself, thereby requiring one aircr
72 Pohakuloa : I live on the other side of oahu and i avoid it like the plague as well!! In all fairness, CO has IAH-HNL flights as well. I think that this is confi
73 Viscount724 : As did JAL when they operated HND-HNL-SFO-JFK-LHR as part of their RTW route, with 5th freedom rights USA-LHR. I think that route ended about the tim
74 LGAtoIND : I completely agree with you. I was simply pointing out that it IS a small piece, and involves some consideration when planning routes.
75 BAKJet : OK, I thought that it was saying that NZ was cancelling the LAX-LHR or that they couldn't do it anymore.
76 Eghansen : Hawaii is and probably always will be a great getaway for residents of California and the surrounding states. Many people I know own time-share condo
77 AussieItaliano : Tis true. People from around here speak of going to Hawaii and Mexico all the time. When I lived in NY, I would hear about Florida and the Caribbean
78 SLCUT2777 : If one had the time to sit down and research all scheduled routes from the U.S. mainland to the Hawaiian Islands, probably 2 of 3 would originate fro
79 CitationJet : I have talked to a few Europeans who are amazed that Americans take 3 or 4 day cruises from Florida.
80 Eghansen : If you look through the LA Times or San Diego Union travel sections, nearly all the package deals are Hawaii or Cabo/Puerto Vallarta/Mazatlan. It's n
81 Aloha73G : HUH?? I think the only bottled water that is $5 is the 5 gallon size. Plus, you don't need to drink bottled water here because we have the BEST tap w
82 COSPN : Good Old CO 15 SYD-HNL-DEN-LGW DC-10-30 !!!!!!!!
83 Arrow : No you don't. It won't hurt you, but it has a strong taste of whatever is put in to make it potable. I love Hawaii, but not the tap water. For one th
84 Post contains links Aloha73G : OK....the water here is PURE. It filters through thousands of feet of porous lava rock over 30+ years before enterign the water supply. Our water has
85 BlueWave 707 : Aloha73G is right! We got the best tap water! The only time you'll pay $5 for a small bottle of water is at some tourist trap location that tries to m
86 Post contains images B777A340Fan : Yes, I agree. A lot of visitors, if not most, are Americans. But we're talking about Europeans here. I don't think airlines are going to create non-s
87 Arrow : I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but since I rarely go to Oahu I checked to see how I could be tasting something in the water that isn't there. Th
88 Aloha73G : I wasn't talking about Maui's water. Maui's major resort areas (Lahaina, Ka'anapali, etc) get most of their water from reservoisr which are treated..
89 JRadier : Could we get back on topic?
90 SLCUT2777 : My wife is from southwest Alberta (YQL), and she has been to Hawaii 9 times between ages 14 to 26. Western Canadians (mostly from B.C. & Alberta) use
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
When Will We See LAX-GRU Again? posted Thu Jan 25 2007 07:23:57 by LAXdude1023
When Will We See Pics From 2007 posted Wed Jan 3 2007 10:39:44 by An225
When Will We See A B787 "In The Flesh"? posted Thu May 25 2006 17:39:35 by Speedmarque
Spring '06 Schedules, When Will We See Them? posted Mon Oct 3 2005 05:59:46 by KBUF737
When Will We See E-Jets At LAX? posted Sun Aug 14 2005 04:23:53 by PPVRA
When Will We See Consolidation? posted Wed Mar 9 2005 16:54:02 by 7E72004
When Does NW Have A DTW-HNL Non-stop? posted Wed Mar 2 2005 05:00:46 by PanAm330
When Will We See The 7e7? posted Fri Dec 31 2004 00:17:20 by Erj145lr
When Will We See Austrian A340 New Colors? posted Tue Apr 13 2004 20:38:20 by INNflight
When Will We See AirTran At SEA? posted Sat Apr 10 2004 19:35:38 by BCAInfoSys