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Any Fresno Airline Historians Here?  
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Hello all....

I noticed in the February 16, 1985 Official Airline Guide that there is a single Jet America Airlines roundtrip from FAT to Chicago O'Hare. However, I have quite a few Jet America timetables and do not recall ever seeing Fresno service.

The schedule is shown here:

www.departedflights.com/FAT85p1.html

Does anyone know for sure whether this service ever operated, no matter how briefly?

Thanks!

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

I'm going to guess that WhatUSaid will be able to answer that when he gets some time to post.

Off the top of my head I do not remember that flight ever operating. But I would want to verify things in some records when I get home from the office before saying that with complete certainty.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 1):
I'm going to guess that WhatUSaid will be able to answer that when he gets some time to post.

And, because I'm older than FATFlyer.... (lol)

Jet America, I don't believe ever served Fresno. I know there were talks between the city and SI, but, something actually scheduled, nope, don't think so.

FAT-ORD was limited to a brief stint on UA, first through SMF, for a brief time with a stop in SLC, and a brief NS stint as well; and, for what it's worth, a 1-stop on RW through PHX. Since, nothing. There's about 70 O&D pax daily in the market - many more if you include the drive-a-ways to SFO, etc. Route would work, but not in my lifetime.

Ok, trivia hounds, what airline had the shortest stay in Fresno? Hint. They flew one L-1011 flight and called it quits.

[Edited 2007-11-19 17:21:56]

User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresno_Yosemite_International_Airport

Thats a page containing lots of info on FAT if you guys are interested.



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2149 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 2):
Ok, trivia hounds, what airline had the shortest stay in Fresno? Hint. They flew one L-1011 flight and called it quits.

Okay this is a TOTAL guess....and there is NO pun intended....but my guess would be Total Air/Air America with service, possibly, to the Hawaiian Islands.


User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2709 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2128 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 2):
Ok, trivia hounds, what airline had the shortest stay in Fresno? Hint. They flew one L-1011 flight and called it quits.

I'm dying to find out?


What is the biggest aircraft currently serving FAT (as of Dec 07)?

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

I pulled my list of FAT airlines and I don't see Jet America ever operating that flight.

The early 80s were a strange time at FAT. I show between Jan 1 1980 and Dec 31 1986 a total of 14 airlines started and ended service at FAT. Most were the short lived startups of the era like Air Sierra and Dash Air.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 2):
And, because I'm older than FATFlyer.... (lol)

LOL no because you had more industry contacts from that era. Besides you may be older but you seem to handle full-time business travel better than I do. I cut back on my travel but you keep going and going.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 2):
Ok, trivia hounds, what airline had the shortest stay in Fresno? Hint. They flew one L-1011 flight and called it quits.

That was easy, you're thinking of the Pleasant Hawaiian attempt at FAT.

Quoting MKE22 (Reply 3):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresno_Yosemite_International_Airport

Thats a page containing lots of info on FAT if you guys are interested.

But lots of missing info there also. For example wikipedia says FAT has been HQ to at least 2 airlines but mentions only Air 21 and Allegiant. There is no mention of WestAir which was headquartered at FAT and was at one time the largest operator of UAX flights. WestAir also founded ACA which later became Independence Air. There was also Far West which was a FAT based startup.

Besides wikipedia is good but not a great resource. Erroneous edits can take time for the wiki community to catch and correct. I refuse to accept it as a reference from my college students without an independent confirmation source.

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 5):
What is the biggest aircraft currently serving FAT (as of Dec 07)?

Operated by a certain non-US airline. And it shows that it will operate daily beyond the holiday season.  Wink



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2086 times:
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Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 2):
Ok, trivia hounds, what airline had the shortest stay in Fresno? Hint. They flew one L-1011 flight and called it quits.

I would have guessed Rich International.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2076 times:



Quote:
What is the biggest aircraft currently serving FAT (as of Dec 07)?



Quote:
Operated by a certain non-US airline. And it shows that it will operate daily beyond the holiday season.

Out of BFL, I would have no doubt...but FAT also has mainline service to DFW on MD80's, as well as MX's A319. I really don't know which one is bigger!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2066 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
Out of BFL, I would have no doubt...but FAT also has mainline service to DFW on MD80's, as well as MX's A319. I really don't know which one is bigger!

Actually for mainline FAT now has:
AA to DFW on MDs
G4 to LAS on MDs
US on A319s to LAS
MX on A320s to GDL

The non-US airline currently wins at FAT. Interesting since the FAT-GDL route started with an A318 a little over a year ago.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4974 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2039 times:



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 7):
I would have guessed Rich International.

I think Rich had a few L10's in their fleet actually. I know I saw more than 2 on the ground in LAS when they were flying.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineSpencerii From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2023 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 6):
There is no mention of WestAir which was headquartered at FAT and was at one time the largest operator of UAX flights. WestAir also founded ACA which later became Independence Air.

Are you sure about this? I thought WestAir was headquartered in Chico (along with Pacific Express).


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2205 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2006 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 2):
FAT-ORD was limited to a brief stint on UA, first through SMF, for a brief time with a stop in SLC, and a brief NS stint as well; and, for what it's worth, a 1-stop on RW through PHX

RW never served ORD before the merger with RC. RW did fly to Houston, DSM, and MKE, but never ORD.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1994 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 6):
But lots of missing info there also. For example wikipedia says FAT has been HQ to at least 2 airlines but mentions only Air 21 and Allegiant. There is no mention of WestAir which was headquartered at FAT and was at one time the largest operator of UAX flights. WestAir also founded ACA which later became Independence Air. There was also Far West which was a FAT based startup.

The Allegiant HQ moved to LAS later, but ironically as former ACA (the westair branch for the east coast) some of the management went on to Independence Air, while the management for former WestAir went to Allegiant Air.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineAeroman62 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

Here's a long ways back question - does anyone have any pics, or know of the final schedules, that TWA operated into Fresno in the late 50's/early 60's (like 60/61)? Their route map showed SFO and LAX routes.

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1949 times:



Quoting Spencerii (Reply 11):
Are you sure about this? I thought WestAir was headquartered in Chico (along with Pacific Express).

Started in Chico but they moved into several buildings at FAT about 1984 or 1985.

WestAir took over the hangar for their maintenance that is now used by Skywest.

They also used old military barracks on Air Terminal Drive at FAT (on the airport's northeast side next to the hangar) for the administrative offices and headquarters.

Lots of names that people have seen at airlines over the years went through WestAir's HQ at Fresno. Tim Flynn and Maurice Gallagher owned WestAir, sold it to Mesa then went on to found ValuJet. Gallagher now is CEO at Allegiant. Jonathan Orenstein served as WestAir president after the Mesa purchase.

Many others now scattered around the industry will remember WestAir's old military barracks headquarters at FAT.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1939 times:



Quoting Aeroman62 (Reply 14):

Here's a long ways back question - does anyone have any pics, or know of the final schedules, that TWA operated into Fresno in the late 50's/early 60's (like 60/61)? Their route map showed SFO and LAX routes.

Only schedule I have actually have on TWA is from an old Official Railway Guide, when they actually let the airlines include their schedules up-front. SFO-FAT-LAX was a milk-can run to the East on Constellations. There is actually a photo that circulates among several historical collections at the Met (local museum). I can pull the schedule if you'd like... The one schedule that I have is from 1955, well before they pulled out in the 60's. I've some old Western Air Express and other obscure schedules from the '40's as well. FAT was a TWA and UAL city until Pacific Airlines arrived when the new airport opened in '62 or thereabouts.

And, it figured that FATFlyer knew about Hawaiian Air's L-1011... (Are we ready to start debating the merits of AQ doing an RNO-FAT-OGG or RNO-FAT-HNL run yet?)


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3252 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1919 times:



Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 5):
What is the biggest aircraft currently serving FAT (as of Dec 07)?

For awhile, UPS has been flying 757s into FAT. Does that count?



.......
User currently offlineFAT5DEP From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1907 times:



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 17):
For awhile, UPS has been flying 757s into FAT. Does that count?

And if Airborne Express was still here their DC-8's and 767's would take the cake. Here's another question, what other aircraft did UPS used to fly into Fresno?



Oh, that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest.
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

Prior to the 757's, wasn't UPS doing just contract work with a number of the freight feeders....maybe a Shorts 330?

You got me. I give.


User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1894 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 12):


Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 2):
FAT-ORD was limited to a brief stint on UA, first through SMF, for a brief time with a stop in SLC, and a brief NS stint as well; and, for what it's worth, a 1-stop on RW through PHX

RW never served ORD before the merger with RC. RW did fly to Houston, DSM, and MKE, but never ORD.

It was RC that flew the FAT-PHX-ORD, circa 1983.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5888 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1878 times:
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Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 6):
The early 80s were a strange time at FAT. I show between Jan 1 1980 and Dec 31 1986 a total of 14 airlines started and ended service at FAT. Most were the short lived startups of the era like Air Sierra and Dash Air.

I remember one of those short-lived airlines was Far West Airlines, flying Mid-Pacific YS-11's between OAK, SJC, ONT and SNA to FAT. Air Cal use to handle them at OAK. I have one of their ticket jackets.


User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1878 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 2):
FAT-ORD was limited to a brief stint on UA, first through SMF, for a brief time with a stop in SLC, and a brief NS stint as well; and, for what it's worth, a 1-stop on RW through PHX. Since, nothing. There's about 70 O&D pax daily in the market - many more if you include the drive-a-ways to SFO, etc. Route would work, but not in my lifetime.

If my rusty memory is correct, UA also flew FAT-DEN-ORD at some point in the early 1970s - I remember flying as an UAM to visit my grandparents and missed my connection in ORD due to a delay at the intermediate stop, which I think was DEN.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1866 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 21):
I remember one of those short-lived airlines was Far West Airlines, flying Mid-Pacific YS-11's between OAK, SJC, ONT and SNA to FAT. Air Cal use to handle them at OAK. I have one of their ticket jackets.

Both Mid-Pacific and Far West operated at FAT.

Far West leased 2 aircraft in 1984 and operated for all of 4 months IIRC.

Mid-Pacific then attempted some mainline routes, including FAT-SNA, in 1985.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFAT5DEP From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1850 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 19):
Prior to the 757's, wasn't UPS doing just contract work with a number of the freight feeders....maybe a Shorts 330?

You got me. I give.

I want to say it was late 90's when they operated a DC-8 for a season. I loved cruising by it on my tug while hauling the bags to the baggage claim. It was short lived, though.



Oh, that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest.
25 Post contains images Latinplane : So was it Hawaiian Airlines, or Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays AKA --- American Trans Air that tried FAT-HNL. This is quite interesting, can you tell us
26 FAT5DEP : Delta had 7 flights in the early 90's, downgraded to 4 in 95, then to 2 in 98, then poof. I worked for them on the ramp for a few years and saw many
27 Timz : "New airport"?
28 WhatUsaid : The owners of Air 21, those of us who invested in that poorly managed (can we say it was even managed) airline? Most of us are around and learned the
29 MtnWest1979 : Many FAT people remember that Metro operator Pacific Cal Air (AX) from very early '80s? They were based in OAK, I think. I remember when they started
30 FATFlyer : BFL has done OK but turned out to not be as strong a market for them as FAT. The current FAT terminal complex opened in 1962. I always wondered if th
31 Wedgetail737 : Yeah Pacific Cal Air was based at OAK. I believe they only had a handful of metros that I remember. They flew between OAK and FAT. I can't really rem
32 FATFlyer : Both did. Pacific Coast operated for 2 years at FAT, 1985 and 1985. Inland Empire was at FAT mid-1981 to mid-1983. IEA also operated at Visalia.
33 WhatUsaid : Dave Vander Lugt - great guy. There were a number of high powered Fresno-types who'd invested in the carrier, including Joe Levy, the major owner in
34 Timz : They started with C402s-- I flew OAK-FAT-OAK for $20 on a Cessna, just for the ride.
35 FAT5DEP : Regarding Air 21, do you think that whole experience damaged Fresno's reputation in other airline's eyes as a profitable place to serve and in the pub
36 WhatUsaid : I don't know if Air 21 actually damaged us in the eyes of other carriers. Having been involved in bringing Horizon Air to FAT, QX looked at drive-a-w
37 FATFlyer : That's right, he was from elsewhere and had moved to the Exeter/Visalia area. He looked at starting out of VIS first but after crunching numbers deci
38 WhatUsaid : You noticed that F9 picture too.... Fresno media were out at the airport after the rush this morning and they'll be out tonight at 6, when there's ve
39 AirlineBrat : I see QX added a third flight to SEA for the holiday season or at least through New Years then I don't see it on the schedule after that.
40 F9Animal : Very interesting info there. I was saddened to see Air 21 fail. I used to enjoy watching them fly the old 28's into LAS. I had a ticket to fly LAX to
41 WhatUsaid : 21 was a low budget carrier. Its interiors were nothing to brag on. Several of the US Air birds were never painted. 21 did not have an interline agree
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