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Wednesday U.S. Travel As Bad As They Say?  
User currently offlineTcv From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

The way the media has spun it, I expect no flights in the air on Wednesday.

But I imagine folks here know the real story...?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNucsh From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Well, the weather could be a little squirrely on the east coast from Wednesday afternoon through Thursday morning thanks to the cold front that's supposed to move through.

It certainly wont help the issues already at hand.



If landing is about "kissing" the ground, you just about raped it.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

I think Mike Boyd has something to say.

Now For Some Reality About The Thanksgiving "Travel Crunch"

Excerpt

Quote:
The Good News: It Should Be Pretty Much Like Any Other Wednesday
The Bad News: It Should Be Pretty Much Like Any Other Wednesday



Quote:
"27 million passengers will be flying this holiday!"

"That's FOUR PERCENT more than last year!

"Flights will be jam-packed!"

"Airports will be crammed with travelers"

"Flight delays could be horrendous!"

Sorry to reveal the exciting ending to this supposed air travel horror flick, but here's a flash for the reporters who are wandering out at airports and sitting in studios interviewing amateur lightweight consumer gadflies who don't know diddly about airline operations:

Essentially, every one of those statements describes a normal week in the air travel scene of 2008.

In other words...it is all hype.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineTcv From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2374 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 2):
I think Mike Boyd has something to say.

Now For Some Reality About The Thanksgiving "Travel Crunch"

Yay! Reality!


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3590 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2347 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 2):
In other words...it is all hype.

Actually, is will be a little worse than normal. This is just because you have a bunch of clueless idiots flying that don't normally fly (as opposed to the idiots that fly every day). The inexperienced idiots make every aspect of air travel just a little worse as you wait in every line for them to figure out what they are supposed to do.


User currently offlineDLOnur From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2333 times:

Operationally, the midwest is going to get pounded today--DFW all the up to ORD will be feeling the punch of some winter weather crossing the mid-section of the country. CLE will be the farthest east extent for a good portion of the day but tonight and tomorrow the east coast is going to feel it. Luckily, most everyone will be to where they are going and the airlines are running on very reduced schedules so the impact should not be as great Thursday.

Now, if all hell breaks loose with the weather on either Saturday or Sunday, then, yes, flying will be miserable.

-o-



What you believe is what you see.
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Well...just lost MEM for bit due to thunderstorm....expected. No lines of pax then no TV interest.....that is how the game is played.

User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 990 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

Well there is some truth to the medias reporting, and Boyd did forget about general aviation. The company that I work for has about 300 revenue flights a day average. The Sunday after Thanksgiving we have over 900 scheduled. So there won't be anymore commercial aircraft in the air, but we will be flying the wings off our aircraft.


The voice of moderation
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Right, as others have mentioned there are two seperate issues.

1) Operationally - it will not be significantly different than most other days nor during other busy summer periods / weekends. Essentially just another day of weather & ATC delays that are not a result of it being the day before Thankgiving. More hype is just drawn to this aspect because it makes for a good story. The media forgets that ORD/PHL/JFK/LGA/EWR are just this delay-prone every other day of the year. Plus rain, snow, & fog are a daily/weekly occurance throughout the country that routinely cause some minor delays.

2) Passenger Mix - this is the big difference as others have already mentioned. From the parking lots, check-in, security, boarding, and baggage claims, you have proportionally more "clueless" and inexperienced passengers than your average day. They cause longer lines as they don't know the procedures are ways to speed things up.

That said, I'm traveling later today, and I've flown on the Tues/Wednesday before Thanksgiving for the past 7-8 years and I have never had any significant issues that were directly attributed to the holiday - other than your normal every day type of delays. I also know the trick to finding parking at DTW, check-in online, use the Elite security line, use a carry-on, and have been upgraded. DTW handles crowds very well and doesn't get backed up both land-side and air-side.

Routes like I-95 on the East Coast or the Ohio Turnpike are much worse to deal with today than the nation's airports.

Have a fun travel day.


User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Other than the jammed parking lots,longer than usual lines for checkin and security,more traffic in front of the terminals as grandparents pick up family members,flights that used to be 80% full are now 100% so any delay or cancellation and people are screwed,bad weather somewhere over not 1 but 2 or more major hubs,and oh yeah, Christmas music playing PA system. Other than that its a normal day of flying.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2191 times:

What makes the Wed pre-thanksgiving tough is that most flights have 100% load factors. That means if weather hits, there is no easy way to fix it if flights are canceled. And there are a few who are going to be bumped on oversold flights (which means stories of how they couldn't get home for thanksgiving).

Most airlines are running a normal schedule, though sometimes there is an extra frequency on a busy route, or a larger plane on a smaller route. But operationally, for an airline it's not that much different than any Monday or Friday during the year. It's just a Wednesday.

I'm flying Friday, so hopefully it will be less busy.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4659 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

I talked to my freind who works at PVD and he said everything is very smooth over there, but the US Airways lines are pretty light... perhaps everyone has learned not to fly them during the holidays now  Smile


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineIcarus75 From France, joined Oct 2003, 797 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2085 times:



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 4):
The inexperienced idiots make every aspect of air travel just a little worse as you wait in every line for them to figure out what they are supposed to do.

Why are you so rude with unexperienced people? How were you the first times you've flown?
I myself used to travel and I can understand that when you end up in a huge airport with a lot of people and noise, it can be very disturbing if you're not used to that!
I think the biggest problem is experienced people that think they know everything, that treat the crew like servants and so on!



Flying is amazing!
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11529 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2074 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
What makes the Wed pre-thanksgiving tough is that most flights have 100% load factors.

AA said they have proactively undersold select flights in key markets over this week so they could deal with reaccommodations more smoothly should weather/ATC, etc. happen.

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 12):
I myself used to travel and I can understand that when you end up in a huge airport with a lot of people and noise, it can be very disturbing if you're not used to that!

I think we can all understand that. But we can also understand that for the uninitiated, their being "disturbed" can also "disturb" the natural flow and movement through the terminal and the air travel process for those of us more familiar with the whole procedure.


User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2068 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
AA said they have proactively undersold select flights in key markets over this week so they could deal with reaccommodations more smoothly should weather/ATC, etc. happen.

That means they only oversold by 20% rather than 30 to 50%.
 Wink


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11529 posts, RR: 61
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2044 times:



Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 14):
That means they only oversold by 20% rather than 30 to 50%.
Wink

LOL.

Well, from what I heard, they actually are holding a lot of seats out on certain flights - underselling, in some cases, by as many as 10-15 seats on some departures, and not "under-overselling," so to speak, but holding back real seats.

I guess we'll see if AA's reaccom goes any better than UA's out of ORD today.


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2032 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 2):
In other words...it is all hype.

Hear, hear! All I've heard about on the news for the past week has been travel delays. There may be some problems around the country, but I'm sure it won't be as bad as the media (especially in the DC area) is predicting.

The TV stations around here have reporters semi-permanently assigned to DCA. I guess they're hoping for something to put on their news to confirm their predictions.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2032 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
AA said they have proactively undersold select flights in key markets over this week so they could deal with reaccommodations more smoothly should weather/ATC, etc. happen.

Okay, so what traditionally makes it so bad is what I said, and airlines this year, after 30+ years of screwing over customers, have finally realized there might be another way.

I also doubt they have truly "undersold" the flights by much but instead they haven't OVERSOLD the flights like AA, DL and others usually do on Thanksgiving.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1990 times:



Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 12):
Why are you so rude with unexperienced people? How were you the first times you've flown?
I myself used to travel and I can understand that when you end up in a huge airport with a lot of people and noise, it can be very disturbing if you're not used to that!

There is a difference between being inexperienced and being stupid. There is nothing wrong with inexperienced people as long as they attempt to follow procedures.

Then there are stupid people who just don't get it - no matter how many times you tell them to do something they don't, they can't follow directions, and apparently can't read. This is the group of people who cause problems.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1870 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 18):

There is a difference between being inexperienced and being stupid. There is nothing wrong with inexperienced people as long as they attempt to follow procedures.

Then there are stupid people who just don't get it - no matter how many times you tell them to do something they don't, they can't follow directions, and apparently can't read. This is the group of people who cause problems.

It's the people that show up to the airport in cumbersome shoes, with tons of metal on them (belt buckles, jewelry, etc) who don't know about the stupid 311 rule that slow it down for everybody.



DMI
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4261 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1787 times:

I flew to BOS today and in ATW someone tried to carry a soda can through TSA. Needless to say, that didn't go over too well.

Luckily, I left on the very first flight, and got to ORD and out before the airport blew up. Had to ride up front on a 757 out of ORD, which was interesting. But ORD didn't seem much different today than any other day, except the travellers were more leisure and the business travellers that usually fly weren't around as much.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19516 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

So apparently yesterday (Wednesday) went pretty well. There were some 2-hour delays around the NYC area due to weather, but otherwise, the news was saying that people were generally pleasantly surprised at how smoothly it all was running.

I think the Administration's plan of opening up some military airspace for civilian use turned out to be some help. Of course, reasonably good weather and a fair amount of stochastic factors (a.k.a. "luck") helped a lot, too.

Sunday will be the next acid test.


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1680 times:

I agree with everything said already... I did a couple legs yesterday and things were just like any other day. Didn't actually have a single full flight... everything was around 80-90% full.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):

I think the Administration's plan of opening up some military airspace for civilian use turned out to be some help

That was all just hype, soundbites, and window dressing. That "military" airspace did absolutely nothing.

But, since yesterday went smoothly, congrats Bush, everyone is going to think it was because of the military airspace being opened up and now people are going to demand it in the future. More of it, more often.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

I'm traveling tomorrow and already got cleared for my CO upgrade as a silver, which never happens out of LAX 24 hours in advance. Seems nobody is flying on Friday!  Smile

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
There were some 2-hour delays around the NYC area due to weather, but otherwise, the news was saying that people were generally pleasantly surprised at how smoothly it all was running.

But that's just called Wednesday in New York. Noting special...  Wink

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 22):
That was all just hype, soundbites, and window dressing. That "military" airspace did absolutely nothing.

Proof? Thanks...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDLOnur From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

Things were eerily quiet yesterday. We had 70% loads to ATL/CVG/SLC. They put in an extra MD88 to ATL in the afternoon and it went out with 45 people total.

We have a red eye on Sunday night to ATL and it is only booked to 56 so far....

WN was busy as hell--seems like everyone is flying WN this year.

 Wink

-o-
ABQ



What you believe is what you see.
25 DocLightning : Look, I'm not a Bush fan by any stretch, but I think only an ATC person in NYC could tell you whether it helped or not. Either way, I'm sure it was n
26 Flyf15 : In NYC, its a runway problem and a close proximity of airports problem. Airspace has nothing to do with it. I know multiple crews that went in and ou
27 DLPMMM : Why do you think I was rude to the inexperienced people? I was just making observations. I noted that there are alot of "inexperienced idiots flying
28 Ikramerica : That is because all the weather was good. But having the space available meant that if the weather wasn't as good, it would be easy to route around i
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