Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2879 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5705 times:
Absolutely feasible, it just all depends on slot availability at NRT.
Assuming a few slots are gained by NW, 787 service from NRT could look like this by 2010:
NRT-JFK: resumption of service
NRT-CAN: replacement of current 752 flight
NRT-MEM: new flight
NRT-HAN or SGN: new flight
NRT-MSP: second weekly MSP flight could be brought to daily.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3045 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5697 times:
I'd say pretty unlikely. Although it is true that DL operates ATL-NRT with a lot of success, only 16% of that traffic is O&D. The majority is connections from Latin America (esp. Brazil) and DL loyalists who are willing to connect from other markets.
NW at MEM doesn't have the strong Latin America network to draw from, and any of the cities in the South that they do serve could just as easily connect over MSP/DTW.
Even given NW's hub at NRT, it's my opinion that MEM doesn't have the O&D or connections to make such a flight work. Of course, they're able to make MEM-AMS work, but that is an entirely different market. Asia tends to have much less tourist traffic, and it's a fact that there simply aren't many significant business ties between Asia and the Southeastern US.
I'd expect to see the 787s serve routes like JFK-NRT, DTW-HKG, DTW-ICN, DTW-TPE, DTW-TLV, MSP-HKG, SEA-HKG, etc. before we see Asian expansion from MEM, although I've been wrong before.
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3640 posts, RR: 29 Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5522 times:
How do you explain all the Japanese car makers building factories in the south? That sound slike important business tie to Asia to me! Only NWA nows if the route is feasable or not and since they are the ones that brought this up, don' t you think it has some sort of merit? Oh I forgot, everyone here is smarter than the suits.
Jano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 820 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5430 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3): Asia tends to have much less tourist traffic, and it's a fact that there simply aren't many significant business ties between Asia and the Southeastern US.
Considering that when I take the 11am TYS-DTW flight there are always plenty (varies from as few as 3 to 10+) of Japanese looking guys in "Denso" (or similar) shirts, who connect to NRT flights in DTW I think there are some business ties between Japan and South East USA. As far as I can tell there is plenty of car manufacturing business around here.
I know that my observation is only random. Anyway I think that MEM-NRT on 787 might work. Plus it could be a reliever for DTW-NRT and MSP-NRT flights in case the northern hubs are hit with a bad weather.
Airguardtn From United States of America, joined May 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5352 times:
The flight will work. Tennessee ranks 5th among all states in terms of Japanese investment. Recently Nissan moved their North American HQ to Nashville from LA to be closer to it's southern facilities and suppliers. One of the biggest drawbacks to Nashville cited by Nissan, was the lack of direct flights to Japan. BNA has even kicked around the idea of a direct flight to NRT, but not being a hub, will make that a tough sell to any airline. The state of Tennessee feels that to continue to attract more Japanese investment a direct flight would be an incentive. MEM will be quicker and more convenient than either DTW or MSP if traveling from anywhere in the southeast.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6247 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5298 times:
Quoting Airguardtn (Reply 6): . MEM will be quicker and more convenient than either DTW or MSP if traveling from anywhere in the southeast.
I am not sure that a BNA-MEM-NRT would be any quicker or more convenient than a BNA-DTW-NRT or a BNA-MSP-NRT routing. The Great Circle nm for all three is very similar with BNA-MSP-NRT being the shortest by 119 nm. It would all depend on the schedule and connecting time.
As far as new 787 service to Asia it appears that JFK-NRT, BOS-NRT, DTW-China, and DTW/MSP-HKG, and DTW-India would get first dibs. MEM-NRT would be down lower on the pecking order
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 17953 posts, RR: 57 Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5258 times:
I think it has a chance of being a money-maker. A number of Japanese car companies have factories in Tennessee, Oaklahoma, etc. It's true that MEM probably doesn't have a HUGE O&D demand for a NRT service. It's a "long, thin route."
But Boeing expressly designed the 787 to serve long, thin routes.
Lexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2433 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5140 times:
To think that an airport that is as outdated and crappy as MEM could serve as an Asian gateway is embarassing to the USA. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. With all due respect, Memphis is the LAST city I want people to see when they get off an airplane from another country. They need to fix that airport and bring it up to the 21st Century (which would lift it OUT of the 1960's) before adding flights to God knows where.
In any regard, I doubt the flight will be a huge success from BNA's standpoint. It's just as easy, and just as convienent to connect in DTW from BNA for a flight to NRT. Personally, I bet from an O&D standpoint, there's more demand for it FROM BNA than MEM. Notice, I said an "O & D Standpoint"!!
SNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1514 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5121 times:
Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 4): How do you explain all the Japanese car makers building factories in the south? That sound slike important business tie to Asia to me! Only NWA nows if the route is feasable or not and since they are the ones that brought this up, don' t you think it has some sort of merit? Oh I forgot, everyone here is smarter than the suits.
I think the Hyundai Santfe is bulit in HSV. They have one on display at the airport.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 50 Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5093 times:
MEM-NRT...not a chance in hell that this flight will happen. Wayyy too thin of a market, even with the connections. If DL's ATL-NRT only has 16% O/D traffic, imagine how low MEM would be. I would be VERY surprised if it was double digits. Of course there will be talk of MEM getting new intercon routes when the 787 arrives, but the truth is, NW can make better use of the plane...far better use...out of its DTW and MSP hubs. Wishful thinking i'm afraid. NW would never waste precious NRT slots on a very long, very thin nonstop to a medium sized regional hub.
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7891 posts, RR: 27 Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5064 times:
Quoting Jano (Reply 5): Considering that when I take the 11am TYS-DTW flight there are always plenty (varies from as few as 3 to 10+) of Japanese looking guys in "Denso" (or similar) shirts, who connect to NRT flights in DTW I think there are some business ties between Japan and South East USA
Anybody wearing a DENSO shirt would be conencting to the NGO flight. Denso and 8 other Toyota Group companies are all based in greater Nagoya.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
Lexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2433 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5055 times:
Nashville is "suppose" to become the new home for the Japanese Consulate and I think this speaks volumes about the Japanese "effect" in the southeast in general. There is certainly a connection here without a doubt (especially in Nashville and Atlanta). But the ability to get there from here is really easy as it stands.
SNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1514 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5031 times:
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 11): Of course there will be talk of MEM getting new intercon routes when the 787 arrives, but the truth is, NW can make better use of the plane...far better use...out of its DTW and MSP hubs.
I think NW could use the 787 on one or two new routes out of MEM. I mean, sure MEM isnt the super hub that DTW is, or MSP for that matter. What do you think about MEM-CDG or MEM-LGW?
Well, they do have the world distribution center for FX and they do boast a VERY large amount of warehouse space within the metro. But a case could be made for any large city in America. It's like anything else claiming to be the "Biggest" or the "Best" in the world. It's totally subjective.
No joke. MEM has one of the largest freight, cargo origination/destination/transit facilities per volume centres is the US. It was in the top 5 in the US a few years ago and was in the top 20 in the world. One of the reason's why FX has it's HQ, and megahub there, and UPS and other competitiors operate out of there. Project Runway 2000 was a master plan by Shelby County in 1996, to open a 2nd parallel runway to accomodate an increase of heavy cargo aircraft by 30 percent, to be completed by Y2K. Distribution in MEM is no joke.
Anyway, MEM could have quite a good draw from Japan if they made the city safer and played up the casino attractions in nearby Tunica across the state line in MS. There is promise there from a NRT flight if they were to market the region to our Japanese customers. Until they invest in tourism, MEM would have little chance
WesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5499 posts, RR: 24 Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4966 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3): Asia tends to have much less tourist traffic, and it's a fact that there simply aren't many significant business ties between Asia and the Southeastern US.
Hrmm..Nissan, Toyota, Kia, Honda...any others?
Quoting Airguardtn (Reply 6): The state of Tennessee feels that to continue to attract more Japanese investment a direct flight would be an incentive.
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 11): NW would never waste precious NRT slots on a very long, very thin nonstop to a medium sized regional hub.
You can lump MEM-NRT into the same basket SLC-CDG came from. Both are on the thinner end fo the spectrum, but if DL can make the SLC-CDG (DL hub to Skyteam hub) flight work, then NWA deserves a shot with MEM-NRT (in which both airports are hubs for NW)
Next trip: SLC-JFK-LHR-ATL-LAX-SLC...my wife's first time on DL's 764!
Lexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2433 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4956 times:
Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 19): You can lump MEM-NRT into the same basket SLC-CDG came from. Both are on the thinner end fo the spectrum, but if DL can make the SLC-CDG (DL hub to Skyteam hub) flight work, then NWA deserves a shot with MEM-NRT (in which both airports are hubs for NW)
Well, with SLC there's tourism, numerous connections to the west, and international recognition. MEM really hasn't got any of that on the same scale as SLC. The economics that brought that flight to SLC is different than those that would land a NRT flight in MEM. MEM as an O&D market is embarassing for a city it's size (blame it on price, blah, blah, blah MEM isn't CVG). NW has to recognize this in any decision they make about that hub. To me, O&D would be a big deal in deciding whether a flight from MEM to NRT would be feasible.
I'd personally love to see this flight start, and I'd definitely be one of the first people on it if opened with a 787. However, under the current agreement between the US government and Vietnam, only one flag carrier from each country is allowed to operate a route to each respective country. Currently the US-served route is UA's HKG-SGN. Unless the US and Vietnamese government changes this, NW will not be able to gain entry to any Vietnam destination. The more likely 'new' route would be NRT-KUL, which NW used to serve some years ago.
This was discussed briefly in another thread, when there were rumors flying regarding new TATL routes at NWA. The formally announced routes were PDX-AMS on an A332 and MSP-CDG on A333. Since NWA had no remaining 332's yet to be delivered, they took the A332 currently used on MEM-AMS, and "allocated" it to the new PDX-AMS route, while assigning an A333 to take over on MEM-AMS. With one remaining A333 to be delivered, NWA then started MSP-CDG. So, in the short run, it is probably unlikely NWA will not start another Europe route from MEM. For one, they just don't have any planes to do it. They currently have 4x unallocated TATL 757's, but the 757 lacks the range to make Europe from MEM.
Also, as was discussed in the other thread, MEM most likely does not have enough O&D to support a second Europe flight, especially after the AMS flight was upgraded to A333.
I dont know much about MEM, but as a long thin route it would seem to be an ideal 787 route. Weither or not it is too thin, and NW could make better use of teh a/c in other markets is a decision only NW could make, especially in slot constrained NRT.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
25 WesternA318: I would also think FedEx might have NWA beat in the cargo market. Did NW fly to Vietnam before the war? Why would they? I would see it as a second ci
26 Blackearth: Lexy, that slur goes far beyond a rational analysis of whether the flight could work. NWA apparently is seriously considering it. Btw--I'm sleepy fro
27 Lexy: Hey Sleepy. It' wasn't nothing personal, but let's be real here. It's my opinion and if it doesn't fit yours, that alone doesn't make it wrong or sla
28 Sean-SAN-: NW would be better off doing a NRT-ATL flight and get conex pax on Delta flights.
29 WesternA318: Not to get off topic here, but how about NRT-CDG or NRT-MEX?
30 Blackearth: Disagreement alone doesn't make it a slur, but one can certainly disagree with a slur and that's what I did. Disagreement doesn't elevate a slur to s
31 777STL: I assumed it was in regards to pax since that sign appears to be in the pax terminal. So in terms of pax, I find that kind of laughable. I doubt MEM
32 Lexy: If you read on, I state my peace on the flights merits. Perhaps it would've been better if I put everything into one post so as not to lead one to th
33 Transpac787: DL already flies it, and with O&D percentages on that route in the teens as quoted above, there would be little hope for a 2nd daily. NW doesn't infr
34 JohnJ: In at least one very important aspect (and to add to Jetjack74's comments) Memphis' title as "America's Distribution Center" is not at all subjective
35 BHMBAGLOCK: Nissan - TN and MS Toyota - KY and AL Sanmina - AL Honda - AL Isuzu - AL Ogihara - AL JVC - AL Sony - AL Toray - AL I'm sure there are many more comp
36 FlyDreamliner: Not possible... the US-Vietnam bilateral allows a single designated carrier for each country, the US currently has United designated for the 747-400
37 WesternA318: Is that why NWA upgraded from a 332 to a 333?
38 RwSEA: What advantage would MEM offer to these cities that they don't already have through ATL, MSP, DTW, DFW, or IAH?
39 MSYtristar: It's a seasonal upgrade. It's back to a 332 now. None whatsoever.
40 Transpac787: Incorrect. It will permenantly become an A333 once PDX-AMS begins operation as an A332 in a few months. After PDX-AMS starts, NWA will have "full" ut
41 N593HA: I think NW is mainly doing this, to free one 332 for the new PDX-AMS-PDX flight, as the 333 doesn't have the range for that route. Aloha N593HA
42 MSYtristar: Fair enough, but it is not a 333 now, that's sort of what I was getting at.
43 Centrair: They didn't serve before the war, but they did serve all be it charter service from Tokyo in the 1990s. NWA History at NWA.com NWA joined the recent
44 Indy: I was thinking the same thing. I'd call a any U.S. destination to NRT a high profile route. I don't think MEM is the first impression you want to mak
45 Bobnwa: If you do not think it's true, then what city has that distinction?
46 B752OS: I think you are overstating this a little bit. For starters, what size operationg does JVC have in AL? Their NA HQ are in New Jersey and their NA r&d
47 Lexy: I have numerous family members that work for Nissan and workers and execs from Japan are always visiting the plants in Tennessee, Mexico, and Mississ
48 BHMBAGLOCK: Less chance of delays, possibly better connections, in some cases the ability to fly from the local airport rather than have to drive to a more dista
49 Lexy: Well you got us on the delays, but connections? Is there that many people flying out of Paducah, Ky or Gulfport, Mississippi that are going to NRT? M
50 MSYtristar: Exactly. Even though the facilities leave a lot to be desired, it does the job for a mid sized, RJ-dominated domestic hub. MEM is not what you would
51 Transpac787: Yea I understood that much, but in your own words you said it was a "seasonal upgrade", which was not true as it will be a permenant upgrade in a sho
52 MSYtristar: In the past I have seen them fluctuate back and forth so I put 2+2 togther and assumed that seasonality had something to do with it. You learn someth
53 Bobnwa: The MEM-AMS route has seen MD-11's, DC-10's, A332's and A333's since its inception. The changes in aircraft have resulted because of system schedulin
54 BHMBAGLOCK: JVC's NA magnetic tape manufacturing is here. I know people working in most of these plants and I can assure you that engineers, management, IT, and
55 Lexy: Ten year olds don't mean a hill of beans to the airlines though. And to outsiders from another country it's highly, HIGHLY, doubtful they know or car
56 SNCntry32: Really? I am surprised they wouldn't flip the bill on 9E... MEM serves its purpose and without it NW would have little no presence in the south havin
57 CF6PPE: Add B767 (KL's) to the equipment used on the MEM-AMS route.
58 MSYtristar: That being said, it's just one flight per day. So we could break that down to "around 220 people", give or take, find MEM as a viable alternative to
59 Dutchjet: NW is certainly studying the possibility of operating MEM-NRT nonstop upon the introduction of the 787: 1. NW has stated that they intend to connect m
60 TVNWZ: I prefer to fly into MEM on all my NW flights. Few delays. Short walk from any gate to any gate. Short connection times and great Q. The place does no
61 Lexy: Nobody is asking for that. If you prefer it, consider yourself a part of that group then. But I would avoid it like the plague even if it had a fligh
62 Azjubilee: We get it Lexy - MEM is not as great as BNA. You're BNA's largest cheerleader, that's fantastic. Perhaps you should get a job for marketing BNA and it
63 MAH4546: I wonder what other cities Northwest is considering connecting with Narita via Tokyo. Boston? Las Vegas? Miami? San Diego? Does Northwest plan on usin
64 Azjubilee: NWA has publicly said the 787s would be used for expansion. They've specifically mentioned routes in Asia, but I cannot imagine NWA would limit themse
65 MSYtristar: Still, MEM is a pretty small hub all things considered. And I'd venture to say, from a revenue standpoint, NRT is miles ahead of MEM. I'll conclude t
66 Bobnwa: The Asia side of the flight would supply the majority of the passengers as they do on all Trans-pac flights, on all airlines. Would it rank with MEM-
67 MSYtristar: No, that one makes more sense, even though seeing any transatlantic flight from MEM is indeed a bit odd. But, more power to NW, they have made it wor
68 Cubsrule: I thought this too, but it's actually incorrect... While I don't think the text of the Bilateral is online anywhere, UA's application for HKG-SGN mak
69 WesternA318: Just out of curiosity, why did it close, and what was so different about it? Careful Lexy, that wasnt me that said that. That would be nice, I'd pers
70 FUN2FLY: I think MEM>NRT has a shot, but it's probably in the second group of expansion cities for NW. However, with all 18 788's coming on in a very short tim
71 Bobnwa: But they proved to very adept at adding the following new aircraft to the US, ie" 747-400. A320, A319, A330, DC-10-40.
72 Mason: Call me crazy, but I don't see NRT as a big target for 787 service, at least until the airport is able to finish expansion and open up more capacity.
73 WesternA318: OK, youre crazy (you told me to call you so). I dont see NRT becoming a huge 787 player either, at least not from a lot of the airlines ordering it,
74 MAH4546: The 787 does not open up any new long-haul opportunities whatsoever from MKE, IND, and BDL.
75 WesternA318: I didnt think so either, I just thought I would toss that out there as I dont know any other focus cities NW has
76 Cubsrule: That really doesn't have anything to do with NW's ability to successfully open new longhaul routes. Hopefully, it's obvious that domestic flight deck
77 MAH4546: On that note, however, MKE and BDL aren't Northwest focus cities. They only have a focus city at IND.
78 RwSEA: SEA-NRT has operated for decades (it was NW's first transpacific flight, IIRC). Yes, NW operates a daily SFO-NRT on the A332.
79 Nwa757boy: Yes NW serves SFO-NRT, just worked the flight on a A332. flights 27/28 and they preform rather well for NW.
80 Mason: Well played, but you missed my point. Even if there was a market for every US city with an airport to Japan, there simply isn't enough capacity at th
81 WesternA318: Speaking of DL, any chance theyll ever return to HKG?
82 Indy: A 2002 (updated 2004) study addressed the value of the 787 (termed 7E7 with the initial study) in routes like IND-FRA for LH. So yes it would open ne
83 Lexy: Correction, NRT is important for NW. MEM is debatable. Finally some civility has entered this thread. I'm more surprised it took you this long to fin
84 Transpac787: Who wants to take bets on how long it takes Jacobin777 to show up and provide his requisite photographic evidence of this?? I believe it was, origina
85 WesternA318: LOL, no need, its my background, LMAO.. Appropriate, LMAO, is the 772 also doing ATL-DXB?
86 SkyyMaster: There are over a dozen Japanese car manufacturing plants and support plants in the south. Other than ATL, there's no nonstop service to Japan. Last t
87 Blackearth: More than that, Memphis has something on the order of 5 trunk railroads, and is the 3rd largest rail hub in the US, after Chicago, St. Louis/and or K
88 Blackearth: I've read your stuff on many forums where you've stated the good times you've had in Memphis. What gives? Why do you dislike the idea of Memphis bein
89 Indy: I'm guessing MEM isn't being considered for that flight either. Just because NW flies somewhere doesn't mean it is considered for MEM. It just isn't
90 Cubsrule: If MEM-AMS were a loss leader, why would it have stuck around so long?
91 JohnJ: I grew up in Memphis, but left in 1989. What you say is true - in the eyes of most people outside the South, Memphis and Nashville are the same city.
92 Indy: A route like that gives you bargaining power.