Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4180 posts, RR: 34 Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5828 times:
Quote: National flag carrier South African Air-ways (SAA) could decide in January to acquire extra aircraft.
The company’s return to growth could make such a step possible.
“If we continue to grow at the rate we’re growing now, we may have to acquire further aircraft, whether new or old, in the future,” states SAA CEO Dr Khaya Ngqula. “This is now on the horizon. We’ll have workshops first and then discuss the issue with the board in January.”
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4483 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5660 times:
Maybe they'll go for the 747-8, which would be nice. I'm not sure they will buy it but at least they are evaluating it, and compare it with the A380, in terms of performance and revenue. If they buy it they will start by ordering a couple of those with options on a few more, and if they are really happy with it then they will exercise their options.
Possible SAA 747-8 or A380 routes:
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5439 times:
Quoting American 767 (Reply 7): I didn't say they would buy it. I was only thinking of this as a possibility. The company is returning to growth according to the article posted above. SAA has a long history with the Boeing 747.
But you said that they are evaluating the A380 and 747-8I in the article posted above no type is mentioned so it could only be A350s and 787s they consider. DonÃ‚Â´t get me wrong I would love SAA get the 747-8I, their 747-400s were one of the best looking aircraft around.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
ZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5234 times:
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9): f SAA couldn't justify a 747-400 on JNB-LHR, their need for the 747-8i or A380 is slightly suspect.
I personally don't think they had a problem justifying the 744 on the route; it's a huge market. I think a combination of having a slightly ageing 744 fleet & increasing shift to Airbus were behind dropping the aircraft. A332s/A350s & A380s would be my prime suspects...
Shankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5198 times:
SAA has a poor recent history of getting the right aircraft at the right price and is probably the only airline in the world that could not make money on full capacity 12hr 744 flights (LHR-CPT & JNB). That says alot about the airline rather than the actual a/c it flies.
It would be a coup for SAA to bag the lease company 380's and start operating those on its prime routes way ahead of its rivals (and possibly for the 2010 world cup?). However, one suspects SAA could not negotiate a decent deal if it had to and would soon be moaning that despite 90%+ load factors, it can't make money on the 380.
I love SAA; it is (was) a true one off and I hate to see it in such a stagnant state
Pfletch1228 From South Africa, joined Aug 2006, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5046 times:
Quoting QF744ER (Reply 14): I'm still waiting to see something definate as to where the ex SAA B744's are going, nothing has appeared on any of the usual aviation forums with the exception of -SAX.
TAAG Angola have some. Cathay also took some. I watched the TAAG crew come pic up the last of the 744s at JIA and you can still see them flying the Luanda -> JNB route.
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9): If SAA couldn't justify a 747-400 on JNB-LHR, their need for the 747-8i or A380 is slightly suspect.
They couldnt justify it because of the balloon lease scheme that was attached to all aircraft. The payments got more and more the older the aircraft got. Coupled to age based increase in maintenance costs, and the CASM incl lease payments were more than the sustanable RASM. The lessors wouldnt re-look at the payments, so they had to go... I am sure at market related leases, the CASM figures would work on the 744.
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 5): although they're short of cash and if they want a cheap new wide quickly it's looking like the 767!
Unlikely. SA had 3 x 762ER and replaced them with A343. They were problematic in the fleet, and by all accounts, SA were happy to see the 767 leave.
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 5): I've always wondered if they could be a destination for some of the ILFC A380s
If my memory serves me, they actually did have a contract of sorts with ILFC for the A380s then pulled out the deal before finalising due to financial constraints.
I dont think you will ever see new Boeing products flying for SA again. They are an Airbus shop now. Even SAA Technical are gearing towards an all airbus future. The leases on the 738 fleet start expiring in 2010, so the replacements for these 21 birds will tell the story at the end of the day - and my bet is that it will be the A320 as SA have repeatedly stated that they work better for them on their route network than the 738s do (and SA would know as they have operated the A320 before, and operate A319 now). They have also cancelled 777s they had on order in the past.
War does not determine who is right. War determines who is left.
Flymad From South Africa, joined Jun 2006, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4166 times:
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9): If SAA couldn't justify a 747-400 on JNB-LHR, their need for the 747-8i or A380 is slightly suspect
As was discussed in another thread. IIRC, problem with profitability (or lack thereof) on the LHR route was because the lease costs on the 744's were so high (almost double what they should have been paying). SA sold most of their 744's and leased them back at a ridiculous lease cost with an exorbatant annual increase built in as well. Had the 744's still been SA's own (as in purchased outright like they were before being sold and leased back) they would problaby still be in service with SA and flying profitably.
Yip I am sure. What I am not sure of is the terms and conditions. Prior to SA grounding the 744, they had it out on wet lease with crew to TAAG anyway. TAAG have "sold" their 777's, so I am not sure if the ex-SA 744 is a permanent fixture in their fleet, or if they are wet leasing it short term directly from the owners until they can replace the 777s.
They have 4 birds on sub-lease, all HGW versions. They are getting another 2 birds ex-SA at the end of the year, also HGW versions. I imagine if they want to keep them at the end of the lease, they will enter into contract negotiations directly with the lessors and get a favourable lease rate. At the moment they are paying "Market related rates" for them through SA, but SA is heavily subsidising the lease rate as the rate attached to them via the owner lessor is circa 2001 when the Rand was at R12:$1. I believe you will see a situation whereby SA will move all the 738s worth keeping to Mango (the HGW versions), renegotiate the leases, and get rid of the rest. The HGW version of the 738 is however ideal for Mangos operation (high pax density, range, performance out of JIA in summer, and they dont need the containerised cargo ability as they seldom carry cargo), and it is a seperate pilot pool, so I believe they will keep them.
The remaining 738s at SA will be get replaced by A320s, more than likely with IAE engines like the previous 7 they had. They have not given any indication whether they will look at any A321s.
War does not determine who is right. War determines who is left.