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SAA To Decide On Fleet Decisions In 2008  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Posted (7 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5382 times:



Quote:
National flag carrier South African Air-ways (SAA) could decide in January to acquire extra aircraft.

The company’s return to growth could make such a step possible.

“If we continue to grow at the rate we’re growing now, we may have to acquire further aircraft, whether new or old, in the future,” states SAA CEO Dr Khaya Ngqula. “This is now on the horizon. We’ll have workshops first and then discuss the issue with the board in January.”

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article.php?a_id=121195

No indication given what might be on the table but IMO it will be more long-haul equipment (A330-200, A340).


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6957 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

Couldn't they just take the 747s out of storage?

User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 days ago) and read 5265 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 1):
Couldn't they just take the 747s out of storage?

None in storage, all found new lives elsewhere...



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 days ago) and read 5255 times:

AFAIK, the only 747 that SA still has sitting in storage is Ndizani (ZS-SAJ) -- while I'd LOVE to see her take to the air again, it's not likely to happen in a hurry.


I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3944 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 days ago) and read 5214 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Maybe they'll go for the 747-8, which would be nice. I'm not sure they will buy it but at least they are evaluating it, and compare it with the A380, in terms of performance and revenue. If they buy it they will start by ordering a couple of those with options on a few more, and if they are really happy with it then they will exercise their options.

Possible SAA 747-8 or A380 routes:
JNB-LHR
CPT-LHR
JNB-FRA

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 days ago) and read 5201 times:

I've always wondered if they could be a destination for some of the ILFC A380s, although they're short of cash and if they want a cheap new wide quickly it's looking like the 767!

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 days ago) and read 5179 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 4):
. I'm not sure they will buy it but at least they are evaluating it, and compare it with the A380, in terms of performance and revenue.

Where do you have found that information ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3944 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5028 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Columba (Reply 6):

Quoting American 767 (Reply 4):
. I'm not sure they will buy it but at least they are evaluating it, and compare it with the A380, in terms of performance and revenue.

Where do you have found that information ?

I didn't say they would buy it. I was only thinking of this as a possibility. The company is returning to growth according to the article posted above. SAA has a long history with the Boeing 747.



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4993 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
I didn't say they would buy it. I was only thinking of this as a possibility. The company is returning to growth according to the article posted above. SAA has a long history with the Boeing 747.

But you said that they are evaluating the A380 and 747-8I in the article posted above no type is mentioned so it could only be A350s and 787s they consider. Don´t get me wrong I would love SAA get the 747-8I, their 747-400s were one of the best looking aircraft around.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3650 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

If SAA couldn't justify a 747-400 on JNB-LHR, their need for the 747-8i or A380 is slightly suspect.

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4798 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):
If SAA couldn't justify a 747-400 on JNB-LHR, their need for the 747-8i or A380 is slightly suspect.

AC and KL could also fill an A380 on some routes and are not ordering it.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4788 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):
f SAA couldn't justify a 747-400 on JNB-LHR, their need for the 747-8i or A380 is slightly suspect.

I personally don't think they had a problem justifying the 744 on the route; it's a huge market. I think a combination of having a slightly ageing 744 fleet & increasing shift to Airbus were behind dropping the aircraft. A332s/A350s & A380s would be my prime suspects...


User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

SAA has a poor recent history of getting the right aircraft at the right price and is probably the only airline in the world that could not make money on full capacity 12hr 744 flights (LHR-CPT & JNB). That says alot about the airline rather than the actual a/c it flies.

It would be a coup for SAA to bag the lease company 380's and start operating those on its prime routes way ahead of its rivals (and possibly for the 2010 world cup?). However, one suspects SAA could not negotiate a decent deal if it had to and would soon be moaning that despite 90%+ load factors, it can't make money on the 380.

I love SAA; it is (was) a true one off and I hate to see it in such a stagnant state



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4709 times:



Quoting American 767 (Reply 4):
Possible SAA 747-8 or A380 routes:
JNB-LHR
CPT-LHR
JNB-FRA

Are you serious? The utilization of these routes is horrible, and they will never be able to cover the high ownership costs if the plane is on the ground all day long.


User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4696 times:

I'm still waiting to see something definate as to where the ex SAA B744's are going, nothing has appeared on any of the usual aviation forums with the exception of -SAX.

Apparently Transaero for the RR powered ones and PR for the 2 x GE ones.


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4624 times:



Quoting Shankly (Reply 12):
That says alot about the airline rather than the actual a/c it flies.

Spot on. If they were *given* free aircraft they wouldn't be able to make a profit...



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlinePfletch1228 From South Africa, joined Aug 2006, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4600 times:



Quoting QF744ER (Reply 14):
I'm still waiting to see something definate as to where the ex SAA B744's are going, nothing has appeared on any of the usual aviation forums with the exception of -SAX.

TAAG Angola have some. Cathay also took some. I watched the TAAG crew come pic up the last of the 744s at JIA and you can still see them flying the Luanda -> JNB route.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):
If SAA couldn't justify a 747-400 on JNB-LHR, their need for the 747-8i or A380 is slightly suspect.

They couldnt justify it because of the balloon lease scheme that was attached to all aircraft. The payments got more and more the older the aircraft got. Coupled to age based increase in maintenance costs, and the CASM incl lease payments were more than the sustanable RASM. The lessors wouldnt re-look at the payments, so they had to go... I am sure at market related leases, the CASM figures would work on the 744.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 5):
although they're short of cash and if they want a cheap new wide quickly it's looking like the 767!

Unlikely. SA had 3 x 762ER and replaced them with A343. They were problematic in the fleet, and by all accounts, SA were happy to see the 767 leave.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 5):
I've always wondered if they could be a destination for some of the ILFC A380s

If my memory serves me, they actually did have a contract of sorts with ILFC for the A380s then pulled out the deal before finalising due to financial constraints.

I dont think you will ever see new Boeing products flying for SA again. They are an Airbus shop now. Even SAA Technical are gearing towards an all airbus future. The leases on the 738 fleet start expiring in 2010, so the replacements for these 21 birds will tell the story at the end of the day - and my bet is that it will be the A320 as SA have repeatedly stated that they work better for them on their route network than the 738s do (and SA would know as they have operated the A320 before, and operate A319 now). They have also cancelled 777s they had on order in the past.



War does not determine who is right. War determines who is left.
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4473 times:



Quoting Pfletch1228 (Reply 16):
The leases on the 738 fleet start expiring in 2010

How many do they have? Are they expiring in a short period of time, or over a long period? Will they be replaced with A321?


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3944 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4355 times:
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Quoting AF022 (Reply 13):
Are you serious?

I was only talking about possible plans for the future, if they ever order a new jumbo but it doesn't look like they will, according to the replies.



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4282 times:



Quoting Pfletch1228 (Reply 16):

TAAG Angola have some. Cathay also took some. I watched the TAAG crew come pic up the last of the 744s at JIA and you can still see them flying the Luanda -> JNB route.

TAAG took some ex.SAA 744? Are you sure?



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineUmfolozi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3859 times:



Quoting Pfletch1228 (Reply 16):
The leases on the 738 fleet start expiring in 2010, so the replacements for these 21 birds will tell the story at the end of the day

How will this affect Mango?


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3806 times:
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Quoting AF022 (Reply 17):
How many do they have?



Quoting Pfletch1228 (Reply 16):
these 21 birds

when in doubt.... read!  Smile



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineFlymad From South Africa, joined Jun 2006, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3720 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):
If SAA couldn't justify a 747-400 on JNB-LHR, their need for the 747-8i or A380 is slightly suspect

As was discussed in another thread. IIRC, problem with profitability (or lack thereof) on the LHR route was because the lease costs on the 744's were so high (almost double what they should have been paying). SA sold most of their 744's and leased them back at a ridiculous lease cost with an exorbatant annual increase built in as well. Had the 744's still been SA's own (as in purchased outright like they were before being sold and leased back) they would problaby still be in service with SA and flying profitably.  twocents 


User currently offlinePfletch1228 From South Africa, joined Aug 2006, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 day ago) and read 3637 times:



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 19):
TAAG took some ex.SAA 744? Are you sure?

Yip I am sure. What I am not sure of is the terms and conditions. Prior to SA grounding the 744, they had it out on wet lease with crew to TAAG anyway. TAAG have "sold" their 777's, so I am not sure if the ex-SA 744 is a permanent fixture in their fleet, or if they are wet leasing it short term directly from the owners until they can replace the 777s.

Quoting Umfolozi (Reply 20):
How will this affect Mango?

They have 4 birds on sub-lease, all HGW versions. They are getting another 2 birds ex-SA at the end of the year, also HGW versions. I imagine if they want to keep them at the end of the lease, they will enter into contract negotiations directly with the lessors and get a favourable lease rate. At the moment they are paying "Market related rates" for them through SA, but SA is heavily subsidising the lease rate as the rate attached to them via the owner lessor is circa 2001 when the Rand was at R12:$1. I believe you will see a situation whereby SA will move all the 738s worth keeping to Mango (the HGW versions), renegotiate the leases, and get rid of the rest. The HGW version of the 738 is however ideal for Mangos operation (high pax density, range, performance out of JIA in summer, and they dont need the containerised cargo ability as they seldom carry cargo), and it is a seperate pilot pool, so I believe they will keep them.

The remaining 738s at SA will be get replaced by A320s, more than likely with IAE engines like the previous 7 they had. They have not given any indication whether they will look at any A321s.



War does not determine who is right. War determines who is left.
User currently offlineSA006 From South Africa, joined Sep 2003, 1883 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (7 years 23 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

Interesting.

Any more A340's on the cards for international use?

Off topic , but for the South African members quick question....were any aircraft damaged last night at JNB after the horrendous hailstorm? Haven't heard anything..



Proudly South African
25 Post contains images Leskova : While I'd love to see that happening, I guess that SAA probably will be heading the A350's way; question is what they'll be doing in the short-term,
26 Thorben : Excactly my thoughts. A332s could do routes to South America, India, the Middle East and Europe. A350s should replace the A342s and A343s in 7-8 year
27 Flymad : Nothing on the news wires but maybe somone at the JNB itself could confirm
28 A390 : I am working at JNB today and have not heard of any damage to a/c last night. Back to the topic: I seriously doubt SAA is in a financial state to purc
29 SA7700 : I agree with you. IIRC TAAG's 777's are out on wetlease, due to the EU ban of TAAG's planes in EU airspace. For the record, their 3rd 777 is in the f
30 SA7700 : Forgive my ignorance, but how? IIRC the A332 is 120 minutes ETOPS restricted, making JNB-GRU-JNB a no-go.
31 Pfletch1228 : Well if the price is right, they will get more A340s. SA are very happy with them as they are perfect for hot and high JNB. Having said that, they ha
32 Andz : The "horrendous" hailstorm wasn't as bad as reported, I live 5 min from the airport and was out on my motorcycle in it ... it stung but wasn't enough
33 Dutchjet : The key issues facing SAA are as follows: 1. Rationalization of the narrowbody fleet: the A32X/737NG mix clearly does not make much sense in the long-
34 Thorben : ETOPS 180 min, AFAIK.
35 Speedbird128 : Didn't hear anything about hail-damage either... (Down here in Boksburg it was all smaller than marble size hail)[Edited 2007-11-24 22:52:39]
36 Post contains links Leskova : Indeed, it is ETOPS180 certified: http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/cf6/cf6_19950206.html http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...releases_ite
37 Columba : I think SAA has the need for a VLA whether it is the 747-8I or A380 is the question. and it depends mainly on the 787 vs A350 decision. I can see the
38 Umfolozi : I would love to see an A380 in SA colours some day. Just imagine that tail!
39 Flymad : Much has been said on this and various other thread about SA's dire financial situation. They may not be able to afford new aircraft, but they have j
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