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Mexico-Africa  
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6187 posts, RR: 30
Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3550 times:
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With the coming explosion of American services into Africa, Delta, for example. I am wondering. Should Mexico capitalize on this, not on connecting passengers to Delta Worldports, but I mean a direct nonstop flight to Africa from Mexico. There is an important African diaspora in Mexico. There is also high end tourism (think safaris) But, unfortunately I don't have the hard numbers. Is there good O&A? for example. Is there actual demand?


MGGS
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6187 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3472 times:
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Possible routes MEX-Lagos
MEX-Morocco
MEX-Kenya
MEX- Luanda


Any more on African routes? fell free to suggest

[Edited 2007-11-23 17:07:37]


MGGS
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

LOL

Not gonna happen for the foreseeable future, unless SAA decides to extend it's GRU route to MEX or something.



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

I don't think so. Its not going to happen. The only Latin country with enough Afircan ties to sustain a flight is Brazil, and TAM and Varig don't even fly there. There is talk of SAA starting EZE flights, the main reason is probably because of the same latitude, and connect the pax-traffic through Latin America. Hell you might see TLV before any African country.

User currently offlinePezetaroi From Mexico, joined Dec 2003, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

Don't you have anything else better to do? Mexico-Africa??¿¿?? absurd...

User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3307 times:



Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
Possible routes MEX-Lagos
MEX-Morocco
MEX-Kenya
MEX- Luanda

hmmm not really

MEX-Lagos - we don't have that oil bond THAT strong to even deserve a seasonal flight. Not to say about tourism which must be almost non-existent.

MEX-Morocco - Mainly 10 to 30% of tourists going to Europe take a tour extension to Morocco so that would definately be a no no. Or maybe a charter every now and then. Seasonal but that would be something out of some really excited people.

MEX-Kenya - hmmmm Although African Safari's must be a MUST experience in our lives. Only seasonal . Not too much promotion or people interested so it would be a no as well.

MEX-Luanda - Luanda-GRU works because both are ex-portugues colonies. So no relationship with Mexico except less than a 100 curious tourists a year.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
Hell you might see TLV before any African country.

Yup, I totally agree with you.


Maybe just one day SAA could start a seasonal frequency but market bonds are not that strong. Possibly and surely for the World Cup but not after that.

MEX-CAI Another possibility but stil very touristic.

Sincerely I don't see any serious African destination - MEX route by any airline in the next 10-15 years. Our country, tourists and businessmen are not ready to look at Africa with potential. Mainly because all the attention is being thrown at Asia.

Cheers!



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6187 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3264 times:
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Ok, well, maybe it as a stupid idea. Thankyou for those who posted nicely, anyhow.


MGGS
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5219 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3242 times:

Only potential destination and sure consider AM landing there for WC2010 charters is JNB.

It could be possible a 1X MEX-CUN-JNB with B777 (its a long one, 7263NM) but it would be great to sign codeshares with SAA and at least one more to make it work. We really know a penny about Africa, at least, heard its cheap the region, nor the flights, but JNB could be an option by 2012.

Also a JNB-Mexico could work for those in South Africa going to the USA/Canada/Central America. SAA only lands in JFK and IAH and they used to land in ATL. Did SAA had a codeshare with DL?

But TLV as well as SVO could come first. Not long ago and for YEARS, Aeroflot landed in Mexico.

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlinePetrovsky19 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

Don't think AM would start a direct route to Africa anytime soon; most likely a Skyteam codeshare via Atlanta with Delta that's pretty much it.  Confused Although I would love to see a Mexico-Africa route! pretty exotic

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
There is an important African diaspora in Mexico.

An African community in Mexico as big as it is IMO I don't believe it can support a direct flight to/from any country in Africa


User currently offlinePtugarin From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

If we consider Canary Islands to be part of Africa (which they technically are), would there be a chance of connecting Mexico with one of the islands? I understand, that there are more cultural/historical ties between Venezuela/Cuba/Argentina and Canary Islands, but not so sure about Mexico.

User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5088 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
There is an important African diaspora in Mexico.

= What?! Where?! I dont think I have ever seen an African in DF or Mexico at large.

Cheers,
A.

PS: How about AM's 787 service on MEX-GRU-JNB-BOM?

PS: When I saw your posts and suggested routings, I thought of that Mexican slang ... N.M.G  Smile.

[Edited 2007-11-23 23:32:33]


Live, and let live.
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3183 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 10):
= What?! Where?! I dont think I have ever seen an African in DF or Mexico at large

Unfortunately I have to agree, the bigest "crowd" I saw was because of the Forum here in MTY, and it was only 10 africans arriving for only 5 days.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineKissK From Malaysia, joined Aug 2007, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3022 times:

EK might connect MEX wiz africa very sooooooon

User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5088 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3015 times:



Quoting KissK (Reply 12):
EK might connect MEX wiz africa very sooooooon

= Are you referring to the rumors of the CMN flight being extended to MEX?

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2863 times:

Well if a Mexican airline (MX?) has its aircraft on GRU tarmac for lets say at least 18 hours, someone at that Mexican airlines headquarter could throw the numbers for a JNB tag-on, specially if allowed by the Southafrican authorities.
I'm quite aware that the O/D traffic between México and South Africa is very little, but man, the Brazil - South Africa O/D is huge, something a Northamerican airline with planes spending a day in GRU or GIG could at least consider to capitalize. And I would love to see CO flying IAH-GRU-CPT and IAH-GIG-JNB..



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5219 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2758 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):

VERY TRUE, SUPERB COMMENT 2travel2know!! GRU-JNB is just 4024NM away or another option could be MEX-GIG-JNB-GIG-MEX and it would be even closer, its only 3868NM and it would be another destination for AM, any Brazilin friend can shed us some light if ANAC and Brazil's government would grant 5th freedom rights to Aeromexico?? A 1X to JNB from GRU or GIG with B767-200ER could probably work and even more if 5th freedom rights granted.

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineBambicruz From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2758 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13):

= Are you referring to the rumors of the CMN flight being extended to MEX?

huh? thats news to me, I havent heard anything about that. what makes you think its in the works?



F*** Me Im Famous!
User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2744 times:



Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
Ok, well, maybe it as a stupid idea

It is far from stupid.
Here in Cancun alone we have, according to Migracion statistics, over 70 South Africans, 60 Nigerians, 40 Senegalese, 30 Kenyans (mostly as gym instructors) and a mix of Algerians and Tunisians as permanent residents.

My travel agency alone handles (and I am minute compared to the size of Cancun) roughly like 40 tickets per annum to Cape Town and Jo'burg which go through Amsterdam as it is the least expensive route (Martinair for the Cancun-Amsterdam leg and KLM on to South Africa). I am referring to tickets sold to South Africans and their relatives (many are married to locals and have kids born in Mexico).

At the moment, though, Mexico is a tough country to visit by South Africans and Africans in general as there is a lot of paperwork to get the tourist visa and this hinders tourism. Cancun could be a very significant destination for wealthy South Africans (who need visas to go just about everywhere... except Argentina !) and there could be a lot of traffic were it not for the bureaucracy and lack of more direct links. The twice weekly CPT-EZE flight by Malaysian 747-400 is nearly always full with traffic both ways but mostly South Africans enjoying the European style and nightlife of Buenos Aires without bothersome transit or tourist Shenghen visas.

Perhaps one day...


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2716 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
Hell you might see TLV before any African country.

And before that happens most likely we'll see DXB, given the pretty large Arab/Lebanese population in Mexico

The reason that I say it is very unlikely is that, out of all the continents ( aside from antartica  ), I'd say Africa is the one Mexico has the least ties to.

[Edited 2007-11-24 20:34:39]

User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1354 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2707 times:



Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
There is an important African diaspora in Mexico.

Do you have literature on this? I'd have to agree Brazil is the closest LatAm country with the most immediate African ties.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2700 times:



Quoting Phatfarmlines (Reply 19):
I'd have to agree Brazil is the closest LatAm country with the most immediate African ties.

It's a no brainer really, Brazil has the world's 2nd largest Black population, and has lusophone ties with many African nation. Something like 90,000,000 Brazilians identify themselves as African descendants.



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2668 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 10):
PS: How about AM's 787 service on MEX-GRU-JNB-BOM?

PS: When I saw your posts and suggested routings, I thought of that Mexican slang ... N.M.G .

1st PS I would doubt about the viability of the MEX-GRU + the JNB tag. How many people would actually fly AM to JNB? If there's no 5th freedom rights it would be a suicide as more thant he half of the plane would have to stay on the plane on the continuing flight plus how many hours would that trip take?!

MEX-GRU-JNB-BOM... who would stay on the plane for THAT MUCH!

Quoting KissK (Reply 12):
EK might connect MEX wiz africa very sooooooon

Emirates will surely take good care of that.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 20):
It's a no brainer really, Brazil has the world's 2nd largest Black population, and has lusophone ties with many African nation. Something like 90,000,000 Brazilians identify themselves as African descendants.

That's right! Mexico-Africa bond comercially and turistically is not enough and will grow in a very very slow way. Asia is a priority as a market and is the market that will develop first. Then most probably Africa. But not in the short haul.



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5088 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2645 times:



Quoting Civilav (Reply 17):
It is far from stupid.
Here in Cancun alone we have, according to Migracion statistics, over 70 South Africans, 60 Nigerians, 40 Senegalese, 30 Kenyans (mostly as gym instructors) and a mix of Algerians and Tunisians as permanent residents.

= You really think those kind of numbers justify a flight? I personally think it would never work ... especially given thats it relatively easy to get to Africa via Europe.

Quoting Bambicruz (Reply 16):
huh? thats news to me, I havent heard anything about that. what makes you think its in the works?

= A long time back I attended a presentation of EK's and one of its potential destination was MEX - served either via MAD or CMN. Again, this was a while back.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 15):
VERY TRUE, SUPERB COMMENT 2travel2know!! GRU-JNB is just 4024NM away or another option could be MEX-GIG-JNB-GIG-MEX and it would be even closer, its only 3868NM and it would be another destination for AM, any Brazilin friend can shed us some light if ANAC and Brazil's government would grant 5th freedom rights to Aeromexico?? A 1X to JNB from GRU or GIG with B767-200ER could probably work and even more if 5th freedom rights granted.

= A 1X to JNB from GRU or GIG would bleed money for AM especially given all the other places the aircraft could be deployed.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2547 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22):
= A 1X to JNB from GRU or GIG would bleed money for AM especially given all the other places the aircraft could be deployed.

Yes, GRU or GIG tarmac for 18 hours. If AM was to get 5th rights for GRU or GIG <> JNB at least thrice weekly, IMHO it wouldn't bleed AM money, however a once per week will, just imagine a Mexican AM crew spending a whole week in South Africa, AM flying GRU-JNB with 3 crews, plus almost everybody would agree that once per week flights are good for leisure travelers, not business people..
And bear in mind that there's no SkyTeam Southern Hemisphere Transatlantic option rightnow, CO, DL and CM could somewhat take advantage of a dream AM GRU-JNB, if not with codeshare, at least with good interline fares.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2516 times:



Quoting Pezetaroi (Reply 4):
Don't you have anything else better to do? Mexico-Africa??¿¿?? absurd...

..why is it "absurd"?



"Up the Irons!"
25 Civilav : quote=Abrelosojos,reply=22]You really think those kind of numbers justify a flight? I personally think it would never work ... especially given thats
26 BSBIsland : Most of this black population is descendent fom African slaves that came to Brazil centuries ago, so I don't think there are any relations between th
27 2travel2know : Brazil-South Africa flights don't fall in that category, even if LAD/MPM via JNB with SA are quite popular.
28 BSBIsland : JNB and GRU are the biggest international aiports in both sides of the south atlantic, and SAA is the biggest player. I just thought it was not neces
29 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = God. Dont get soo touchy . Of course nothing is impossible. As far as I know, Malaysia does NOT make a profit on this route. And, what is the stati
30 Abrelosojos : = It could work of course. Though, if it does have a 1x, I will apply for a job with AM and try to be on this flight. Imagine ... a layover in Brasil
31 2travel2know : It seems Peruvians (!) don't need visas for South Africa either.
32 Viaggiare : Visa exemption for stays up to 90 days: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Venezuela. For stays up to 30 days: Bolivia, Costa
33 Post contains images Adriaticus : Interesting idea, indeed... What if, just what if, a country like Kenya could be better connected to the USA through Mexico than through Europe? (I'm
34 Abrelosojos : = I hate to continue being a spoilsport on ths Mexican aspirations ... but in your example Adriaticus, why would the Kenyan passenger take a LONGER f
35 Abrelosojos : PS: And, DL is starting its own NBO-DKR flight to connect to ATL and JFK. Cheers, A.
36 2travel2know : México is a Latinamerican power, MEX serves one of the world biggest and more populated cities, but, the chances of MEX having plenty of ultra-
37 Yellowtail : Why is it absurd to think of a MEX-African link?....MEX is one of the largest cities in the world....surely there are 300 people a day out of the 10+m
38 Pzurita1 : Surely, but Africa is a big continent with over 50 countries and many many cities where that traffic might be heading. Say 100 to CAI, 50 to JNB, 20
39 AM744 : I don't see any viable African destination now. There is a market to Japan and probably China and Korea, that has been historically routed through th
40 2travel2know : 2010 is just around the corner and it seems MEX is already playing the Football World Cup. Are you taking MEX altitude into account there? I don't th
41 IAD380 : One day, MEX could be a stopover on direct flights between South Africa and Texas or California if SA ever starts flying to IAH, DFW, LAX, or SFO. How
42 AM744 : LOL, that's true, but maybe some AM charters will do, as in 2006. Yep, that's why I considered the LR version, but even that might not be enough due
43 SJOtoLIR : Thank you for starting this interesting thread ! The inadequate demand is an issue against Mexico-Africa as nonstop. The three air alliances are curr
44 AR385 : Aerolineas Argentinas at some point in the 80's had an EZE-CPT flight.
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