Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
KLM To End Widebody Flights To LHR  
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13594 times:

KLM is to end scheduled widebody flights between Amsterdam and London's Heathrow airport with the onset of the next northern summer schedule effective March 30, 2008. The airline currently operates a daily A332 between the two cities as KL1007/1008 in the morning. The outbound KL1007 connects to the airline's overnight longhaul arrivals from Africa, the Middle East, the Subcontinent, South East Asia as well as to a first batch of transatlantic arrivals, and regularly carries large numbers of connecting passengers and freight to London. The return flight KL1008 connects to the airline's 2pm and 3.30pm longhaul departure banks.

Before changing to the A332, KL1007/1008 had previously mainly been operated by the airline's B763ER fleet, although the company occasionally sent other widebody equipment to Heathrow. Before that, the service was regularly operated by A310 albeit with different flight numbers.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ian Schofield
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alexander Gill




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



From the summer 2008 schedule onwards, KL1007/1008 will revert to a B733, and will upgrade to a B738 for the peak July and August travel, although KLM is very likely to make regular equipment changes in function of expected loads. It is not unthinkable that a company widebody will still occasionally visit Heathrow.

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineExpress1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13542 times:

Well that's going to be a sad moment, i will surly miss the A330s into LHR,and seeing the rusty old B733s back in.

dave


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13486 times:

Since no additional frequencies are being added, one would assume loads and freight have gone down, is it right?

Will this A332 be sitting at AMS all morning long or will be deployed elsewhere?



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13407 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 2):
Will this A332 be sitting at AMS all morning long or will be deployed elsewhere?

KLM is dispatching two additional A332s in the first longhaul departure bank at 10am when compared to last summer's operation. KL669 will leave for DFW at 10am (new flight), while KL459 is scheduled to KWI and MCT at 10.10am (new schedule because of MCT tag). On the other hand, the KL657 to EWR will no longer be operated. Overall, though, the A332 utilization will go up next summer, despite the loss of the LHR rotation.


User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13209 times:

what about the AF-KL longhaul operation from LHR?
i would think the a330 would be perfect equipment from lhr onwards..
any news on equipment, operator, start date, destination?



facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13166 times:

This is sad news for me, I regularly made my London trip via AMS just for the fun of riding the A330... besides many times price was better or the same as flying directly BUD-LHR-BUD... not to mention the miles looked good on my Flying Blue card  Sad

As for loads... hmm dunno, last time was in first days of October and I was pretty surprised how full the plane was.



Peet7G
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12897 times:

Really really sad that KLM will end its service with the A330 to LHR.


As LarSPL mention the A330 would be perfect for flights from LHR to the U.S



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12887 times:



Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
KLM is to end scheduled widebody flights between Amsterdam and London's Heathrow airport with the onset of the next northern summer schedule effective March 30, 2008. T



Quoting PEET7G (Reply 5):
This is sad news for me, I regularly made my London trip via AMS just for the fun of riding the A330

 checkmark ...even though I fly on enough A332's, I'll have to try to get on this one before they stop flying it on said route....

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
Before that, the service was regularly operated by A310 albeit with different flight numbers.

..didn't even know KL had A310's in the fleet...those A310's do look good in KL Colours... yes 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCO767FA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12830 times:

Doesn't this correspond to the flood of new US airlines arriving into LHR? Perhaps that has something to do with the withdrawl of widebodies on AMS-LHR.

User currently offlineAirPortugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3717 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12755 times:



Quoting CO767FA (Reply 8):
Doesn't this correspond to the flood of new US airlines arriving into LHR? Perhaps that has something to do with the withdrawl of widebodies on AMS-LHR.

I agree with the logic here.

The only thing that would lead me to believe it is something else is that there are plenty of US-LHR flights long before the new airlines start flying there. In other words, why would anyone bother connecting threw Amsterdam to get to London? Seems like an incredible waste of time to me, unless the price is right?

Just another thought...thats all.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12706 times:

Shame, the end of an era. KL's daily widebody to LHR was a ""tradition"" that, as pointed out, operated for years with various types. It was my understanding that the widebody turn to LHR was basically a ""cargo run"" moving lots of frieght between London and African destinations. I do wonder how KL will handle this in the future?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
didn't even know KL had A310's in the fleet...those A310's do look good in KL Colours...

I am surprised that you didnt know this.......KL was one of the launch customers for the A310-200; KL had problems integrating the A312s into their fleet, mainly due to range issues......the A312 was short on range and could not be dispatched on transatlantic services. The A312 were acquired to replace DC8-60 aircraft on medium haul runs and for high demand European routes; KL replaced the A312s with leased 763ERs which, of course, had more range and thus more flexibility.....but hauling cargo is not one of the 767's strongest attributes. Its interesting that KL had a love/hate relationship with both the A310 and the 763ER.

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 8):
Doesn't this correspond to the flood of new US airlines arriving into LHR? Perhaps that has something to do with the withdrawal of widebodies on AMS-LHR.

I really dont see a connection. KL's widebody service to London was focused on moving pax and cargo between London and Africa.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12665 times:

well i am sure it is extremely expensive to fly a A330 on such a short hop...it hurts utlization....now KL has roughly 3-4 hours of free A330 time. They cant do anything with it probably, but they if there is additional A330 time thru the day they can string it toigether and get a medium haul out of it, or they can let it sit to improve reliability

User currently offlineBRxxx From Taiwan, joined Aug 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12597 times:

Ok, something doesn't make sense here. Unless there is a MASSIVE drop in loads between AMS and LHR, I don't see why they suddenly downgrade a wide body that can carry 270-300 people to a narrow body that can only carry 100-150 people. Plus, aren't there supposed to be some cargo loads between these two places as well?


Flown on:A320,A332,A333,B737,B738,B763,B744,B77W,B773,E175,E190,MD90,MD11
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12437 times:



Quoting BRxxx (Reply 12):
Ok, something doesn't make sense here. Unless there is a MASSIVE drop in loads between AMS and LHR, I don't see why they suddenly downgrade a wide body that can carry 270-300 people to a narrow body that can only carry 100-150 people. Plus, aren't there supposed to be some cargo loads between these two places as well?

its called winter...local cargo can go by sea, its cheaper


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12436 times:

The 733s won't be long in the fleet anyway; in time, we should be seeing the 737-700 operating that flight; the first are due to arrive over the Winter.

I am certainly sorry to see the A330 go; I have a good few trips planned which involve taking that flight. I took it a year or two ago, when the airline flew a 767 on the route and it was very nice indeed. 737s are fine, don't get me wrong, but I'd always take a widebody, given half a chance.

Incidentally, given all the changes of terminal assignments, does KLM still intend to stay at T4?


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12104 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
does KLM still intend to stay at T4?

Yes. T4 will be the Skyteam terminal



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12013 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
Incidentally, given all the changes of terminal assignments, does KLM still intend to stay at T4?

I would imagine so. I think all the skyTeam folks are moving to T4.

I wonder if the imminent introduction of a high speed link between LON and Amsterdam had any impact on this? If the flight was mainly conneting passengers and freight to Africa, I would have thought not. It seems more like a shortage of equipment for the summer schedule. Perhaps when KL gets the two new 332s the flight will revert.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11940 times:



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
I am surprised that you didnt know this.......KL was one of the launch customers for the A310-200;

...we can't know everything... Wink

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
KL had problems integrating the A312s into their fleet, mainly due to range issues......the A312 was short on range and could not be dispatched on transatlantic services. The A312 were acquired to replace DC8-60 aircraft on medium haul runs and for high demand European routes; KL replaced the A312s with leased 763ERs which, of course, had more range and thus more flexibility.....but hauling cargo is not one of the 767's strongest attributes. Its interesting that KL had a love/hate relationship with both the A310 and the 763ER.

....interesting...thanks for the information.. thumbsup ....quite interesting history indeed. Given that KL is downguaging the A332 to LHR, it could be that cargo to LHR isn't as important now as it once was.

Certainly the A310-300 is more than capable for transatlantic services..maybe KL should have waited a few more years and/or should have opted for getting the A313 also...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11017 times:



Quoting CO767FA (Reply 8):
Doesn't this correspond to the flood of new US airlines arriving into LHR? Perhaps that has something to do with the withdrawl of widebodies on AMS-LHR.



Quoting BRxxx (Reply 12):
Ok, something doesn't make sense here. Unless there is a MASSIVE drop in loads between AMS and LHR, I don't see why they suddenly downgrade a wide body that can carry 270-300 people to a narrow body that can only carry 100-150 people. Plus, aren't there supposed to be some cargo loads between these two places as well?

KLM wil actually increase frequencies on the AMS LHR route next summer, from the current 9 daily flights to 10 next year (Mondays to Fridays, 8 on Saturdays, 9 on Sundays). So there will be no actual shortfall in available seats on the route. The main determinant for the withdrawal of the A332 from the route seems to be that the aircraft will be more heavily used for longhaul flying. Average daily utilization of the A332 fleet, which will count 10 units next summer, is expected to increase to almost 14 hours from last summer's 13h20.


User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10814 times:

dutch news site www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl just got a piece out:

with introduction of new airplanes with the new order which was just announced they intend to open new routes.
focus on china, india and south amerika.

what can we expect around 2010?



facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10680 times:



Quoting LarSPL (Reply 19):
what can we expect around 2010?

That's a different thread altogether, but it is clear that KLM is studying multiple options, in close cooperation with AF, of course. These options include the reinforcement of and/or introduction of nonstop services to current destinations as well as the opening of new destinations. India and China are obvious markets, although KLM's experiences with Chengdu have not been as splendid as hoped. Neverthless, another secondary China destinations is definitely in the cards, apart from the further reinforcement of Shanghai to twice daily service. In India, Bangalore seems to have a good chance as well as Mumbai, although the former is already served by AF and the latter receives daily NW service from AMS. In South America, KL/AF is investigating options in Brazil, with Recife receiving a some attention. I would also not be surprised if KL eventually goes back to Buenos Aires. The airline is, finally, also actively seeking rights to Angola.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10306 times:



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 20):
That's a different thread altogether, but it is clear that KLM is studying multiple options, in close cooperation with AF, of course. These options include the reinforcement of and/or introduction of nonstop services to current destinations as well as the opening of new destinations. India and China are obvious markets, although KLM's experiences with Chengdu have not been as splendid as hoped. Neverthless, another secondary China destinations is definitely in the cards, apart from the further reinforcement of Shanghai to twice daily service. In India, Bangalore seems to have a good chance as well as Mumbai, although the former is already served by AF and the latter receives daily NW service from AMS. In South America, KL/AF is investigating options in Brazil, with Recife receiving a some attention. I would also not be surprised if KL eventually goes back to Buenos Aires. The airline is, finally, also actively seeking rights to Angola.

I wonder like a few other European carriers (namely LH), if KL will re-introduce Pakistan again (KHI or possibly ISB).....KL previously used to fly AMS-KHI-CMB....with a B742....I know BA is looking to re-introduce KHI again after many years......

Actually AF used to fly to KHI also...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9474 times:

and..
going on the A330 topic..
since HB-IWC is so well informed that it makes me jalous..

MP is rumoured to start receiving 10 A330's starting next year out of the AF-KL group.
source AF? any change in destinations?



facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
User currently offlineMarky From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8937 times:



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
Shame, the end of an era. KL's daily widebody to LHR was a ""tradition"" that, as pointed out, operated for years with various types.

This is just the latest of the European flag carriers to stop bringing their widebodies to LHR, in the late 80's/early '90's virtually all the major European flag carriers flew widebodies to LHR. Others I can think of that had regularly scheduled widebody service include:

Air France (A300, A310)
Sabena (A310)
Iberia (A300, DC10)
Swissair (A310)
SAS (767)
Alitalia (A300)
Balkan (767)
Air Malta (A310)

Plenty of others have operated occasional flights, or for short periods

Lufthansa A300s, TAP A310s, Cyprus A330s and Olympic and Turkish A340s are just about the only ones that remain. It's surprising that as slots at LHR have become more and more scare, the aircraft operated by the European airlines have tended to get smaller.


User currently offlineAirPortugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3717 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8897 times:

Possibly a dumb question but I dont know all that much on slots etc...

Is the landing fee already included in the price of a slot or is that a seperate bill?



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
25 Dutchjet : A very important point, indeed. The move to frequency (1) to offer pax (read premium Frequent Flyers) more choice and (2) to time flights during depa
26 WesternA318 : Ahh the 310's were the pretiest plane KLM ever had in my opinion, well, aside from the legendary DC-10. What a sad day that KLM is reducing the equip
27 Post contains images A388 : I have read the same on luchtvaartnieuws.nl. Will MP indeed be getting the A332? If so will they be brandnew aircraft and when is the first batch to
28 OA260 : My first flight with KLM back in 1991 was on an A310 LHR-AMS!! Shame to see the end of widebody operations with the A330. Its an end of an era of KLM
29 Dutchjet : We are a bit off-topic, but it was my understanding that the MP A332s would be sourced from the Air France fleet; AF would replace the A332s with add
30 Singel09 : I picked up the rumour that the KLM A330's will go to Martinair ... being true or not, where there is smoke ...
31 WesternA318 : I was speaking in terms of classic airliners, nothing from the new kids on the block (although the 777 is over 10 yrs old)
32 ACVitale : KLM has actually been increasing its London O/D cargo share. The key is that they have been using truck traffic to bring it to London from Amsterdam f
33 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..ah, ok...
34 Post contains images A388 : YES! The famous KL 777 photo is back Jacob, haha. It's like I'm a sports commentator on national television, haha. I am glad to see it again mate A38
35 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...A388, before I even clicked on the link, I saw your name as the last post and I knew what you were going to be mentioning.. you have to admit, it
36 WesternA318 : Nahh...lol, they look, too ...umm..blue, lol. I prefer Mad Max over from CO..now THATS a hot 772!
37 USADreamliner : You can't be serious.
38 KL577 : Has KLM ever looked at returning to Freetown and/or Monrovia?
39 Post contains images LifelinerOne : There are quite a lot of rumours going around at the moment... One is that Martinair will not exist anymore as a brand and that the AF-KLM group will
40 HB-IWC : KLM's A332s - as well as AF's A332s, for that matter - are staying where they are for the time being. As a matter of fact, a tenth aircraft will be a
41 A342 : And there won't be any long layovers during which it could serve LHR? Or will they occur at unsuitable times of the day?
42 AirPortugal310 : Oh believe me..I'm serious. If there is one thing I don't do pal is bullshit. Know that one thing about me and your good to go. Am I looking at this
43 HB-IWC : Sure enough there will be excess ground time at AMS, but from an operational perspective it is smarter to keep the aircraft at the homebase, thereby
44 Petertenthije : You ever considered taking a trip to AMS to get a few other shots of a KLM 772? Maybe even a 773 in some months?
45 A342 : I guess a dedicated spare aircraft would be much more expensive, even if we take the additional revenue the other aircraft could generate into accoun
46 Flyingclrs727 : But even if one were to connect through Amsterdam, why start at Heathrow? There are other airports in the London area that would be easier for O & D.
47 HB-IWC : One should look at an airline operation as a whole, not in terms of individual aircraft, and when looking at the proposed KLM A332 operation for next
48 AirPortugal310 : Absolutely true. I suppose there is no need to single Heathrow out, though, I was trying to keep in the theme of the topic. But true nonetheless.
49 KL577 : I find this somewhat strange given SN's 4x weekly services to ROB and biweekly to FNA. They are doing good business on these routes. And witht the po
50 Aerobalance : I'm heartbroken to hear this terrible news.
51 JRadier : But takes a lot longer. I'm not even sure it's that much cheaper, as you have to truck the freight to the port of Amsterdam or Rotterdam anyway. The
52 ACVitale : On other comment. There was a lot of cargo getting refused by agricultural inspectors on the aircraft. The cargo was being rejected before it was pick
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Time To Arrive At LHR To Catch Flight To EDI? posted Sun Oct 7 2007 08:02:24 by 8herveg
BMI Plan To Launch LHR-TLV posted Tue Sep 11 2007 14:05:29 by TLVFred
Rumor: BMI To Chop LHR-MAN/LBA/MME? posted Wed Aug 29 2007 17:49:30 by N383PA
Etihad To Increase LHR/BAH/MCT/FRA Flights posted Sun Aug 12 2007 17:04:08 by Behramjee
KLM MD-11 Diverted To AUA posted Sat Aug 11 2007 19:33:48 by 777WT
KLM Extra Flights From LHR posted Thu Jul 19 2007 23:55:04 by KL591
Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo posted Mon Jul 16 2007 22:55:48 by Humberside
DL/ASA To End Service To MCN posted Mon Jul 2 2007 17:51:03 by Positiverate
Emirates To BHX/LHR posted Sun Jun 17 2007 19:48:59 by Revo
Volunteer To Test LHR Terminal 5 posted Sat Jun 9 2007 17:39:49 by Lhrstu