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Could IND No Longer Be An LCC Haven In The Future?  
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3641 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3707 times:

Well, I've been noticing some disturbing patterns at IND lately.

Southwest only added one flight to Florida in their new schedules. AirTran, who has talked about building IND into a focus city for a while, has only added once-daily service to LAS and a Saturday-only MSY. Frontier has dropped CUN. JetBlue still hasn't arrived after all these years. Even Delta has dropped one of their two JFK flights. And all of this is happening while Northwest is quietly upgrading equipment. Something must be going on...

And now, I hear that IND might increase their already-high rent for airlines once the new terminal opens. I agree that the new terminal is much needed, and it looks real nice on paper. But if the rent increases for pax carriers too much, I've heard that WN might leave IND completely. Also, FL is seriously looking at adding FWA service (rate increase or no rate increase) because a lot of their IND pax drive from the FWA area, and G4's success at FWA is making them take a serious look. And B6 probably won't arrive at IND for a while due to the JFK delays fiasco unless a Midwestern focus city opens.

Who would take advantage of this? Northwest, of course... they're the #1 carrier at IND, and they've already built up a huge frequent-flyer base. They would add more flights, raise fares, and probably throw in a flight to AMS while they were at it. If this happens, I could see Concourse A of the new terminal being the SkyTeam concourse (NW, CO, DL) and Concourse B being for everyone else.

What does this mean? Once the new terminal opens and if WN leaves, we could see IND turn into a mini-DTW... a red-tailed, semi-high-fare paradise with a few LCCs thrown in to keep it from becoming another MSP. Could it happen, benefitting airports like DAY, FWA, CMH, SDF, and CVG? Maybe LAF could land a ULCC startup and get pax service back? We'll see...


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2064 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3683 times:



Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
Who would take advantage of this? Northwest, of course... they're the #1 carrier at IND, and they've already built up a huge frequent-flyer base. They would add more flights, raise fares, and probably throw in a flight to AMS while they were at it. If this happens, I could see Concourse A of the new terminal being the SkyTeam concourse (NW, CO, DL) and Concourse B being for everyone else.

What does this mean? Once the new terminal opens and if WN leaves, we could see IND turn into a mini-DTW... a red-tailed, semi-high-fare paradise with a few LCCs thrown in to keep it from becoming another MSP. Could it happen, benefitting airports like DAY, FWA, CMH, SDF, and CVG? Maybe LAF could land a ULCC startup and get pax service back? We'll see...

Hoosiers can only hope that it would turn into a mini-DTW. I'm not sure how "mini" you mean, but it sounds like you are implying that it would be a small hub of some sorts. That would be great for the economy if that were to happen as it would open up some destinations that are as of right now infeasible. Even something like American at St. Louis would be a blessing, but I don't really think it would happen.

Indianapolis doesn't fit into NW's route map as a connecting point, especially with Detroit just to the north. I think you'll see them maintain a presence similar to what they have right now, as NW survived the initial struggles with expanding the operation.

With that said, I still think that the Indianapolis market has more room to grow. Not necessarily to AMS or abroad, but there are some under-served domestic routes that could prove to be fruitful. I'm honestly surprised that WN didn't pounce on IND when TZ was weak, as it surely could have been a BNA type operation if they wanted it that way.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3670 times:

Rent may be higher but taxi times will be much shorter. So some of that increase in rent will be offset by reduced fuel burns on taxi. You should be able to reduce turnaround times by as much as 20 minutes per flight. That is LCC friendly.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4467 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

FWAERJ, it seems to me you're reading way too much into the items you have listed. Southwest seems to be concentrating on growing their major markets, with only minor additions at small to mid-size stations this fall. JetBlue hasn't done that well in their medium-size Midwest markets, with their pullouts from BNA and CMH coming. FL also doesn't seem to be growing their mid-size markets too fast right now.

Also, AFAIK neither Southwest nor AirTran have ever left a successful market because of fees. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's highly unlikely they'd drop a strong medium-size market like IND over fees. They also seem to be holding their own at IND alongside NW just fine.

It's pretty clear you'd like to see FWA land one of the larger LCC's. Maybe FL could enter FWA on its own merits, I don't know (the last-minute cold-feet failure to enter MDT doesn't bode well). But don't look for LCC pullouts or major cutbacks at IND to happen and serve as a cause for that occurrence, because they're extremely unlikely.

Jim

[Edited 2007-11-24 13:05:12]

User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1297 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3609 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
Frontier has dropped CUN.

Frontier hasn't dropped CUN. None of the cities with service to CUN (except SAN) have lost service. F9 is reducing service from IND to CUN from three times weekly to Saturday and Sunday.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

As Indy stated, the much shorter taxi times will save $$ in terms of fuel used at IND. If anyone has landed at IND and you land toward the west on one of tthe parallel runways, you probably notice that it takes a nice long time to get to the current terminal. If you have arrived at IND recently and take a look to the middle of the field, you will see the new terminal...it is obvious that the taxi time will be much shorter thereby saving in some fuel used.

In terms of NW, i would have said until very recently that NW would make or at least upgrade IND more in the coming year or two, expecially since the new terminal will be opening with more avaiable gates. But with the news recently that NW is looking at a possible MEM-Tokyo flight, that gives me the impression that they are not giving up on Memphis and may even build it up. So, who knows about IND.

I am not sure and i wish i could know, if the reason the airlines are not adding flights or what not at IND is because they are waiting to get into the new terminal or are planning something but will not announce something until summer of '08, a few months before the new terminal opens. The fact of the matter is, and regardless of new service or not, IND needed the new terminal either way. The current one is dark, old, and dingy (in my opinion). I am sure it was a good one for the 80s/90s, but with the amount of people having increased over the years, it is not conducive to a positive travel experience. I have heard people talk at the airport that it is old and they wish there was more room. The new terminal will blow the old one out of the ground.  Smile



The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3574 times:



Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
What does this mean? Once the new terminal opens and if WN leaves, we could see IND turn into a mini-DTW... a red-tailed, semi-high-fare paradise with a few LCCs thrown in to keep it from becoming another MSP. Could it happen, benefitting airports like DAY, FWA, CMH, SDF, and CVG? Maybe LAF could land a ULCC startup and get pax service back? We'll see...

And yet another place to park the DC-9's, lol...



Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3571 times:



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 3):
JetBlue hasn't done that well in their medium-size Midwest markets, with their pullouts from BNA and CMH coming.

That plus the JFK problems right now are why I don't see B6 adding many (if any) Midwestern cities for a while.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 3):
It's pretty clear you'd like to see FWA land one of the larger LCC's. Maybe FL could enter FWA on its own merits, I don't know (the last-minute cold-feet failure to enter MDT doesn't bode well). But don't look for LCC pullouts or major cutbacks at IND to happen and serve as a cause for that occurrence, because they're extremely unlikely.

Of course I would like to see another, bigger LCC at FWA. As mentioned above, FL has been seriously looking at FWA due to Allegiant's success. But I wouldn't expect IND cutbacks to serve as a cause, either. For example, FWA is too small of a market for a new WN city with the 10 initial daily flight minimum and such.

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 4):
Frontier hasn't dropped CUN.

Oops. My bad.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3438 times:

Yea Mini DTW Just One NRT-IND will make everyone happy no need for NGO-IND  Smile

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