Barnesy2006 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5771 times:
As the topic says has anyone here flown on American Airlines yet out of Stansted? How was it compared to other london airports? Is the route proving a success and will there be any more routes launched except the obvious twice daily to JFK?
8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5703 times:
Quoting Barnesy2006 (Thread starter): Is the route proving a success and will there be any more routes launched except the obvious twice daily to JFK?
I hope ORD is announced. Thats the only one which seems obvious to me which could be launched. LAX is already served with Maxjet, who I heard are looking to serve MIA....BOS I think is already covered and is too small a market to add any extra flights to...same with DFW. So that really leaves ORD, which isn't served from STN....but was previously. Plus, ORD is a major AA hub for connecting flights whereas BOS, for example, is much smaller.
I think ORD-STN is really dependent on BA and AA getting ATI. There's no need for 9 daily flights to LHR between them, but AA can make a case for the frequency they offer with the lack of reciprocal benefits on TATL flights.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
AEroc From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5628 times:
We were looking at loads before the holiday rush and they were very poor. I dont remember the exact loads, but I do remember laughing and saying thats the non-rev shuttle to the LON area. ORD might be a choice AA could think about, but I think their eyes are set on LHR at thins point in time.
Mjlhou From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5086 times:
I've also checked the loads into STN for the holiday season closer to X-Mas, and while the flight appears to be pretty full, the reason they were embargoed non-rev travel in J class was in order to try to better compete with MY and the J-class cabin are the ONLY seats that are NOT selling off. The day I checked, I believe was Friday the 21st, Y class was just about full with NO J-class seats booked at the time I checked.
Don't worry about things you can't change or control
AlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4863 times:
I know this will be hard to find in the records (due to no interlining) but are these flights mostly O&D London or making connections (onto different tickets, obviously) onto low-fare airlines like Ryanair? Or is it a good mix?
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3242 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4414 times:
Quoting 8herveg (Reply 10): Sorry, could you explain what ATI is please? Excuse my ignorance...
Anti Trust Immunity.
Currently, BA and AA cannot officially cooperate across the Atlantic. That means: they cannot code share, they cannot align schedules, and they cannot make pricing or revenue sharing agreements. When currently AA and BA would make pricing and schedule agreements, they would be charged for forbidden price fixing by the Anti Trust regulators.
Governments can decide to allow two (or more) companies to cooperate and make pricing agreements, and make a combination immune for the Anti Trust regulators: Anti Trust Immunity.
Currently, several airlines have ATI across the Atlantic: KL & NW, AF & DL, UA & LH, AA & AY, to name a few.
AA and BA have not been granted ATI yet, because of Bermuda II: together, they would be too strong @LHR, and they would limit consumer choice. Now Bermuda II will be finished in March, and other airlines can fly from LHR to the USA as well (CO, NW, US and DL have all announced flights), BA and have re-issued a request for ATI.
Regulators can attach preconditions to an ATI, for example, to give up slots at an airport. LH and LX, for example, were allowed to cooperate (and merge), but they needed to give some slots on the FRA-ZRH route to AB.
Personally, I expect BA and AA to get anti trust immunity, but I wouldn't be surprised if they will need to give up a couple of slots at LHR. Mind you that both the American regulators and the European Commission will need to agree.
Another pending application is to merge the AF-DL and KL-NW ATI into one big ATI for AF-KL-DL-NW, possibly even including OK and AZ.
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3242 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4404 times:
Quoting Barnesy2006 (Reply 8): Thanks for the replies, keep me updated with anymore news on STN as i really would like to see it succeed as a full fares airport aswell as the usual low cost.
It will definitely will. Not because everybody loves STN, but simply because it is the only airport in the London area that has a good growth perspective. LHR and LGW have hardly any opportunities to grow, while STN is on track to get a second runway in the next decade. I don't expect it to be ready in 2012 (as planned), but it will probably be there before 2020.
Albird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4306 times:
Where did AA pull this aircraft from for this route?? If they are expecting to add an additional flight from JFK-STN and maybe a flight from ORD.... Where will AA get these aircraft from?? Who will lose out on these aircraft?
I do think though that AA have actually done something right here by flying into STN as for the biz man, its soo much easier to get to the City from STN than LHR or LGW
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1564 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4265 times:
Quoting Barnesy2006 (Reply 13): Had a look this morning and the pax load was 223, i guess near capacity but i don't know what there 763's hold?
That's at capacity.
Quoting STNDEICER (Reply 15): I believe they hold 255 pax in the Y and J class config
30J 195Y, 225 total, though that is in the new configuration, old configuration is 30J 183Y, 213 total.
Quoting Albird87 (Reply 18): Where did AA pull this aircraft from for this route?? If they are expecting to add an additional flight from JFK-STN and maybe a flight from ORD.... Where will AA get these aircraft from?? Who will lose out on these aircraft?
Shifting aircraft around. Fewer 767s to Hawaii, more daylight flights to deep South America (Sao Paulo), mixing 767s at Heathrow, dropping DFW-ZRH, MIA-MAN to name a few.
Skyhigh From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 236 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3968 times:
Quoting Albird87 (Reply 18): I do think though that AA have actually done something right here by flying into STN as for the biz man, its so much easier to get to the City from STN than LHR or LGW
I totally agree. I don't understand why other airlines haven't seized on this opportunity, especially BA. The Stansted Express (or whatever it's called these days) is a direct train service that regularly leaves from the airport terminal and arrives at Liverpool St. Station in the heart of the business district, in approximately 30-40 minutes. This should be a huge selling point for business passengers.
For those of you unfamiliar with London, LHR is on completely the other side of London and takes no less than one hour, up to two + during peak hours to travel to. Furthermore, there is no dedicated transport service linking the East of London to Heathrow other than the tube or a combination of the tube/Heathrow Express, both of which involve a change of lines and are extremely time consuming.
Stansted is much smaller than LHR and certainly more attractive from a passenger point of view. It doesn't have the connection possibilities, unless transferring to a low cost airline such as Ryan Air but there is certainly enough O+D traffic between JFK and London to sustain such a service.
The only thing that I can think of is that passengers are travelling to LHR to fly BA, as they are unable to access frequent flier points when using AA. A possibility perhaps??
Eurohub From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3898 times:
I was going to post a new thread on this subject - or at least something similar, so I'm glad I did a search!
My wife flew into STN this morning (29th Nov) on American 124 from JFK and commented that the flight had a total of 82 pax on board and so plenty of room on board to spread out.
Having noted that AA are heavily promoting the STN route with extra miles and low J fares and that a second daily is to be added from April 2008; I had wondered if 82 was an anomaly or part of a worrying trend.
I did wonder if AA were enjoying good cargo yields on the route, STN's proximity to the M11 giving good access to East London, the South-East, East Anglia and the Midlands makes it an ideal port for handling cargo - is AA taking advantage of this? Perhaps using cargo to its advantage when pax yields are low?
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
Jimbo27L From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3817 times:
Quoting Albird87 (Reply 18): its soo much easier to get to the City from STN than LHR or LGW
Quoting Skyhigh (Reply 21): I totally agree. I don't understand why other airlines haven't seized on this opportunity, especially BA. The Stansted Express (or whatever it's called these days) is a direct train service that regularly leaves from the airport terminal and arrives at Liverpool St. Station in the heart of the business district, in approximately 30-40 minutes. This should be a huge selling point for business passengers.
Using public transport from STN and LGW to The City and Canary Wharf.....(from TFL and National Rail Enquiries)
Gatwick to London Blackfriars (The City)
Journey time: 36-39mins
Frequency: Every 15mins
Blackfriars to Canary Wharf
Journey time: 22-24mins
Gatwick to Canary Wharf
Journey time: 58-63mins (faster if you can get a train from LGW to London Bridge and change to the Jubilee Line for Canary Wharf)
Stansted to London Liverpool Street (The City)
Journey time: 52-58mins
Frequency: Every 15mins
Liverpool Street to Canary Wharf
Journey time: 18-19mins
Stansted to Canary Wharf
Journey time: 70-77mins
Agreed LHR to the CBD's is a nightmare, but I dont understand why people automatically assume LGW is in the middle of nowhere! Also, I suggest people do their homework before championing STN's 'express' rail link.
LGW has more accessible and faster routes from Central London (London Bridge, Blackfriars, St Pancras, City Thameslink, Victoria) than STN (Liverpool St) - FACT.
: I'll champion STN's express rail link. I loved it - and the best part was I went from airplane seat to train seat in about 15 minutes. And the travel
: Very pleased to hear you enjoyed your experience through Stansted. Stansted Express is advertised as 45 to London which isn't far out.
: Since this thread concerns flights between the US and Britain, I will put in my two-cents worth. Americans do not take trains or buses at the airport
: I see that LY and TK have started some flights to STN. Is this the way airlines are expanding since LHR is impossible to increase frequencies? Are oth
: Out of all of the London Airports I've always found travelling out of STN the most hassle free. In terms of Taxi time its definitely the shortest jour
: I think thats whats known in Britain and probably around the world as a SNOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
: btw-the service was actually great, its the same service you get to ZRH, BRU or CDG (all on 763's). I enjoyed it tremendously, and the fact that I did
: You obviously don't live in a major metro area. Here in Chicago I'm on the subway for 40 minutes in each direction to and from my office. we also hav
: why do everyone bitch about LHR. It takes 15 mins from LHR to Paddington on Heathrow Express. I just did a business trip there week before Thanksgivin
: What in the world? Nothing could be farther from the truth. In places where there is good public transport, it is used very heavily. Ever done rush h
: I think Eghasen was saying this with tongue firmly in cheek
: Where did they suddenly find the space to fit an extra 12 economy seats? Yes, but South Kensington isnt in Londons CBD. LHR is fine for getting to mo
: Or unless the Y class seats are being sold for higher prices.
: I used to work for a company with headquarters inside the loop in Chicago (Landrum & Brown - aviation consultant to the City of Chicago). At one poin