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A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe  
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9277 times:

The A318 is now approved for steep approaches as necessary at LCY.
A new market for the A318 and Elite version, or still too much aluminium for the load?
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...7_11_23_a318cfm_steepapproach.html

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9118 times:

ramp space will be the next problem, more required I guess...


from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8536 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8998 times:
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Ramp space is an issue right now, though I undertand they are looking at various options to increase it.

Space aside, the 318 opens a whole range of new possibilities from LCY, fantastic news for the airport and local community who use LCY.

M



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineIcLCY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8983 times:



Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 1):
ramp space will be the next problem, more required I guess

Work is already underway for 5 more ramp spaces over the dock to the east of the tower.

As for the A318 coming to LCY, not for a long time. It isn't in the current master plan & no mention was made at the community forum which the management holds with those that live around LCY.

The only change on the radar at the moment is an application to increase the number of aircraft movements.


User currently offlineClydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

I'd say the 318 will only ever be used for corporate flights into LCY, the parking stands are so packed tightly together that anything bigger than a 146 would probably cause an overall decrease in airport capacity if the stands are re-aligned. Having said that, the airport has to look to the future, the 146/RJ can't last forever.

User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8905 times:

I presume that the A318 will be performance limited from LCY

It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.


User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 8671 times:



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
I presume that the A318 will be performance limited from LCY

It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.

Yes, but with a tech stop on the westbound leg?


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13047 posts, RR: 100
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 8577 times:
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Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.

You're ambitious! I'd just like to see LCY service to a European hub for further connections.  spin 

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 3):
As for the A318 coming to LCY, not for a long time. It isn't in the current master plan & no mention was made at the community forum which the management holds with those that live around LCY.

Do you have a link to the rules? I think noise is the limit... but is there a weight limit in place? (Notice I'm asking.)

LCY fascinates me. Its an absolutely amazing location for an airport. Because of said location, I understand having to operate it under tough rules. Cest la vie.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineKieron747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 8544 times:

It would be great from my spotter's point of view. I see every day (when waiting at Warren Street/Tottenham Court Road in the evening) for the bus home the props flying over past the Telecom Tower and Centrepoint. Imagine an A318!!!

K


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8470 times:

Well, LCY needs something to replace the Avros, however nice it is to have one part of the globe which is still a bastion of the British Aircraft Industry!

Can the E190/E195 use LCY, as a replacement 100 seater is needed, and that would be an option if certified?



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineIcna05e From France, joined Feb 2006, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8329 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 7):
You're ambitious! I'd just like to see LCY service to a European hub for further connections. spin

I think it would be an interesting fit for AF's business-oriented LYS hub. Pretty reliable 20-min connections there to most major city in continental Europe. And guess what... AF has A318s and already operates them from Lyon! Well a bit of an overkill to open such a route, after all LCY is much O&D oriented but hey why not?


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8248 times:

If A318s can use LCY, could they use Toronto Island Airport?

User currently offlineBx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 678 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8224 times:

I heard recently that the 146-300 is no longer allowed operate here, is this true? My airline used to operate 146-300s into LCY. I am also wodering about the parking of A318s. I believe aircraft park tail in to the airport building due to runway clearance, would the A318 be able to park that way. Bearing in mind the engines are bigger on the A318, would they damage the building?

User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

The original Crossair order for E-170s had them fitted with a ventral airbrake specifically for the LCY approach. So it should be possible for an airline to order/equip and certify an E-jet for LCY.


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

Sorry bizarre double post effect. Double edited out.

[Edited 2007-11-26 16:03:01]


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineJdevora From Spain, joined Aug 2006, 352 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8054 times:

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 3):
As for the A318 coming to LCY, not for a long time. It isn't in the current master plan & no mention was made at the community forum which the management holds with those that live around LCY.

I just saw this re-reading a Flight Global article when the A318 made it the first time to LCY

Quote:

This all matters to London City, says managing director Richard Gooding: "This new aircraft is expected to replace aircraft such as the BAe 146/Avro RJ series, which is no longer in production. Carrying 107 passengers, the A318 helps secure long-term development of London City airport, which is expected to quadruple in throughput in the next 25 years."

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
I presume that the A318 will be performance limited from LCY



Quote:
The short take-off was not limiting today with about 10kt headwind, says Chandler, adding that in still air the aircraft would be slightly payload limited.

From:
Airbus A318 makes first test arrival and departure at London City Airport and
A318 makes mark at London City

Cheers
JD

[Edited 2007-11-26 16:51:41]

User currently offlineAAmd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7877 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 11):
If A318s can use LCY, could they use Toronto Island Airport?

I think there's a jet embargo at YTZ.

I'm pretty sure that's why the only aircraft ever to operate there are turboprop aircraft. Jazz used to use Dash 8's, and now Porter uses Q400s.

So although some jets are capable of operating there, they won't do because they're not welcome at the airport.

At least, that's my (very slim) understanding on the subject.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7040 times:



Quoting Breiz (Thread starter):
The A318 is now approved for steep approaches as necessary at LCY.


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Photo © Neil Guinea


With CFM engines. The PW6000A equipped A318 has been approved since June 2007. From the link.....

Quote:
"In June 2007, approval was granted by the EASA for the A318 powered by Pratt and Whitney PW6000 engines."

With this approval, we might see AF's A318s not only in LHR and MAN, but LCY as well.....

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Photo © Chris Waser
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Photo © Darren Wilson


.....and maybe Tarom's too, if it could make it out of LCY to BUH without too much load penalty.....
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Photo © Danny Versteegen


.....for they also fly their B737 and A310 to the UK.....

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Photo © Neil Guinea
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Photo © Paul Morley


And last but definitely not least, for those who ordered A318 Elites with an eye to operating them into LCY.....

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Photo © Thomas Piskol
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Photo © French Frogs Aviation Pictures


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Photo © Vasco Garcia
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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt


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Photo © Sergey Riabsev - Russian AviaPhoto Team
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Photo © Sergey Riabsev - Russian AviaPhoto Team


However, LA's A318s are the only P&W powered ones in service, so far.

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Photo © Alejandro Ruiz



Quoting IcLCY (Reply 3):
Work is already underway for 5 more ramp spaces over the dock to the east of the tower.

According to previous threads, A318s at LCY would be limited to three on the ramp at any one time.

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 9):
Can the E190/E195 use LCY, as a replacement 100 seater is needed, and that would be an option if certified?



Quoting Voodoo (Reply 13):
The original Crossair order for E-170s had them fitted with a ventral airbrake specifically for the LCY approach. So it should be possible for an airline to order/equip and certify an E-jet for LCY.

The E170 has already been approved, but it's tail posed a little problem. The E190 is also planned for certification.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...7/lineage-interior-on-display.html

Quote:
"Looking to the future, Embraer's E-170 has passed its steep approach and noise trials for London City airport, although sources say the aircraft's high tail poses a slight problem in terms of accommodating it at the stands. Once that issue has been ironed out, the future looks rosy for possible certification of the stretched variant, the E-190 and consequently the Lineage."



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7034 times:



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.

Hey, let's dream! That would be very funny: service from LCY to YTZ and, let's say LGA (and, why not, BOS)... A few dozen seats... Hefty pricing... I wonder... How would it fill up?

Those would be among the most exclusive seats possible; even more so than Concorde!


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5198 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

I doubt their is enough runway for the 318 to be fully loaded with fuel and make it to USA let alone somewhere like Athens

User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7479 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5558 times:



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
I presume that the A318 will be performance limited from LCY

It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.

The Airbus press release focuses on the ability of the 318 to land at LCY. It makes no mention of departure.

My understanding is that the Avro RJ100s operated by BA out of LCY are severely capacity restricted when operating on the longer routes like LCY-MAD. Indeed their maximum load on such routes may be 25 per cent less than that of a fully laden RJ85. As a result BA had planned to swap two of their RJ100s for two RJ85s. They even got as far as returning one of their RJ100s to BAE Systems last March planning to replace it and another aircraft with two ex-Mesaba Northwest Airlink RJ85s. However the costs of converting the RJ85s to European standards proved prohibitive. So the aircraft that had been returned to BAE Systems that had already been taken out of BA livery was quickly given 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' titles but not its full livery and returned to BA LCY operations:

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Photo © Gerry Hill - WorldAirImages


Now BA are hoping to lease two RJ85s currently operated by Blue 1(KF) from next spring.

So does anyone know what range a fully laden 318 would have operating out of LCY. I am pretty sure that if an RJ100 cannot make it anywhere near MAD, the 318 will not make it across the Atlantic.


User currently offlineJdevora From Spain, joined Aug 2006, 352 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5393 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 20):
The Airbus press release focuses on the ability of the 318 to land at LCY. It makes no mention of departure.

See reply 15, with the wind that they had during the tests they could take off without payload limitations.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 20):
So does anyone know what range a fully laden 318 would have operating out of LCY. I am pretty sure that if an RJ100 cannot make it anywhere near MAD, the 318 will not make it across the Atlantic.

From A318 makes mark at London City

Quote:
He adds that the aircraft would mean that the airport could offer non-stop, full-payload flights to additional destinations like Madrid and Barcelona, Rome and Vienna, and further afield with minor load penalties that are acceptable at a high-yield departure point like City. Upper echelon large corporate jets like the A318 Elite could even make it non-stop from City to the Middle East, he suggests.



User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5328 times:



Quoting Voodoo (Reply 13):
The original Crossair order for E-170s had them fitted with a ventral airbrake specifically for the LCY approach. So it should be possible for an airline to order/equip and certify an E-jet for LCY.

I thought this brake is a standard on the E-Jet ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineIcna05e From France, joined Feb 2006, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4552 times:



Quoting Jdevora (Reply 15):
A318 makes mark at London City

Wow... I dn't realize there where software modifications needed for LCY ops. I am guessing all A318 Elites will be fitted but what about Air France or Tarom's? How easy is it to retrofit this "steep approach button"?

Reminds me of the red button in Batman's car, it turns the airplane into a "super A318". I can see our 2 superheroes going "careful... I'm hitting the button"  mischievous 


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3812 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 19):
I doubt their is enough runway for the 318 to be fully loaded with fuel and make it to USA let alone somewhere like Athens

Say EWR at 3,486 mi - is pushing it, even with the 4100 nm range Elite with 8 passengers. Athens at 1,492 mi is well within the corporate jet's range with 18 pax. However, out of LCY, the figure looks optimistic. From the link....

Quote:
"airport managing director Richard Gooding says the A318's arrival will double the range of destinations available non-stop from the airport. Spain and Eastern Europe will be within its operating range with 107 passengers on board, says Airbus"

From Airbus' tables, 1,000 nm seems to be the practical limit on an A318 out of a 3,750' available runway.

[Edited 2007-11-27 09:28:53]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
25 Voodoo : I assume the 318 has the double-slotted flaps of the 320/319. Would be interesting to know its performance if it had the triple-slotted jobbies of the
26 Columba : Didn´t BA had the A318 on order at some time ? What airlines would consider ordering the A318 for LCY flights ?
27 BrianDromey : I dont think they fitted it in the end, they were able to make teh E170 hit the required targets without it during testing. The future of LCY is defi
28 ZRH : Swiss has quite a lot LCY flights with their AVRO RJ 100. Sooner or later they will have to replace them. I guess they will go with the E-Jets althou
29 Clydenairways : What do you think about the Sukhoi Superjet, if it manages to break through into the Western European market it might be a possibility?
30 Post contains links Columba : Lufthansa has 30 E190 on order and options for another 50: http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN1831967520070418 Maybe LH will get so
31 BrianDromey : IIRC LH took over the LX E-Jet launch order, and also added frames, these are for operation by SWISS, hence why LX is getting a relatively small numb
32 ZRH : Yes, that's what I am presuming. But at moment Swiss flies 20 AVROs (and desperately needs more, at the moment they have a wet-lease of three F100 an
33 Columba : LH also has 15 more CRJ 900s on order. It will be interesting to see who will get all these E190s and CRJs as there are several airlines in the LH gr
34 Voodoo : Bombardier C-series? Was the MD-95/717 ever thought of for LCY? And wasn't Austrian going to start F70 ops soon? (sorry if someone mentioned it one of
35 Viscount724 : And YTZ's longest runway (4000 ft.) is almost 1000 ft. shorter than the 4948 ft. runway at LCY.
36 Arrow : Perhaps the day after hell freezes over. There would be a political explosion at the mere suggestion of such a thing.
37 Post contains links Aircellist : I find contradictory informations: Wikipedia lists the runway lenght, at LCY, as being 1508 m: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_City_Airport This f
38 BrianDromey : Well, the cargo market at LCY is almost non-existant, AFAIK so that should help distances. I think Rome, Warsaw or Villinus would be about as far as
39 DJ738 : For those of us that obviously don't have your knowledge of Toronto Island Airport, would you be able to explain why such political explosion would o
40 Post contains images AAmd11 : The Airport isn't liked by people who live near it... they complain that it's polluting their air, making lots of noise and devaluing their property
41 Arrow : That pretty well sums it up. The complaints aren't rational but they are very loud. And the media gives them far more play than they deserve. Glad to
42 Alangirvan : Depends what the noise profile of the A318 is compared with the layout of Toronto Island, and whether you can do approach and take offs over water.
43 Post contains links Jdevora : Hi, I don't know exactly how to read it, but you can find the data in A318's Airport Planning Document Cheers JD
44 Zeke : The A318 would have a MTOW takeoff restriction of about 65,000 kg off a 1500m runway at sea level, which means the A318 would be able to go 3200 nm w
45 Clydenairways : For info, declaced distances for LCY are not 1500m. 28 TORA1199m ASDA1319 TODA1385.
46 Arrow : You are assuming their response would be rational. It hasn't been so far. As was pointed out in another post, the current Q400 operations generate le
47 Aircellist : Thankyou very much, sir! It would cross the Atlantic... To Halifax, Montreal or New-York? In fact, and albeit this is slightly OT, how is the range c
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