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TZ DC-10-30s  
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6399 times:

Does anyone know when the next TZ DC-10 (former NW DC-10s) will be painted in the new TZ livery? We seem to get three of the DC-10-30s here at DFW as troop transports. N710TZ is painted in the new livery, but N702TZ and N703TZ are still in the old NW colors. Red ATA jets look really weird.

The DC-10-30s are mixed in with the TZ L-1011-500s that still come in and the occasional TZ B-757-300. Additionally we get World Airways DC-10-30s and MD-11s as well as Omni DC-10-30s and MD-11s. We have not scene the NA B-767-300ERs in a long time now. Do they still have the military charter contract?

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTyphaerion From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 619 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6383 times:
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This is no way is a firm date, but you should be seeing the next two DC-10s get painted right around Christmas and New Year's Day.

I am in agreement that the red is not a good look for the birds, and I am not sure what they will be painted to look like. It might be in the same scheme as the L1011s, without the large 'ATA' tags on them.

I have no information on NA. As of yet I have been unable to make any contacts on that side of the corporation.



For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Three of the soon to be four (706 will come online this week) DC10-30s will be painted beginning Dec. 11. They will not, however, look entirely like 701. They will get the tail and fuselage logos like 701, but only the red crown will be painted out on the fuselage. I'll pass my judgement when I see the real thing...at least one will be out by the middle of December with the other 2 following.


35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5195 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6154 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
We have not scene the NA B-767-300ERs in a long time now. Do they still have the military charter contract?

They do lots of military work. They just don't seem to go to DFW much. Instead, they tend to go from a non-DFW CONUS point to JFK (their home) and on to Europe and the Sandbox.

PS I don't think Omni has MD11s. They have a number of older DC10s, including one or more that used to fly with World.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5790 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 3):
I don't think Omni has MD11s. They have a number of older DC10s, including one or more that used to fly with World.

It may have been a World MD-11.

Speaking of World, have you scene their new livery? It kind of looks like the new UPS livery, but where UPS has brown, World has dark blue. Where UPS has the yellow (gold?) stripe, on World the stripe is red. World had a MD-11 in here (DFW) the other day with it, as well as a DC-10 the following day.


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5760 times:

World is also getting several of these ex-NWA DC-10-30's arriving early next
year. First one in NWA "silver", the second and third in the new livery.
There has been a push to paint one in the 1980's livery, but it probably won't
happen.

I personally like the livery on N803DE. That too will be gone before too long.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5732 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
World had a MD-11 in here (DFW) the other day with it, as well as a DC-10 the following day.

We haven't had any DC-10's in DFW anytime recently. Our passenger DC-10 (N14075) has been sitting idle in BWI for 19 days, it is off to SAT soon for a B Check. Our DC-10 freighters are on military cargo runs, and they never go any further west than ATL right now. If it was a World bird and in DFW it's definately a MD-11.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Speaking of World, have you scene their new livery? It kind of looks like the new UPS livery, but where UPS has brown, World has dark blue. Where UPS has the yellow (gold?) stripe, on World the stripe is red.

We added a a white stripe in between the red and blue to "make it different from UPS"  sarcastic 


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Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5714 times:

That idle DC-10 will fly to SAT today. IF it will fly. DC-10's don't like to sit for very long!

Aren't those DC-10F's transiting BWI a lot now? It seems like BWI has become the
"northern hub" for World Airways!



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5633 times:



Quoting FI642 (Reply 5):
There has been a push to paint one in the 1980's livery, but it probably won't
happen.

Won't that bring back memories of the World DC-10 in Boston Harbor, off the runway at BOS?


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

The BOS overrun was January 23, 1982, almost 26 years ago.
If one reads accounts of what happened, World wasn't entirely at fault.

Many people would like to see that livery again. Count me as one!



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5501 times:



Quoting FI642 (Reply 9):
The BOS overrun was January 23, 1982, almost 26 years ago.
If one reads accounts of what happened, World wasn't entirely at fault.

True.


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5435 times:



Quoting FI642 (Reply 5):
First one in NWA "silver"

Actually it is painted overall base gray not silver from the change in direction to add it to the TZ fleet as N703TZ. It was supposed to have been painted to look like N701TZ but gray instead of the NWA silver mica. The silver mica is a complex and expensive 3 layer process with base gray, silver mica, and clear coat layers that are applied twice each for a total of 6 layers. The base gray layer only is simpler, cheaper, and looks the most like the full mica process.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5395 times:



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 11):
Actually it is painted overall base gray not silver from the change in direction to add it to the TZ fleet as N703TZ.

I hope it isn't ugly.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5195 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 5128 times:



Quoting FI642 (Reply 9):
Many people would like to see that livery again. Count me as one!



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Won't that bring back memories of the World DC-10 in Boston Harbor, off the runway at BOS?

When 803DE was repainted in the 1975-era livery, it got nothing but raves. In fact, Randy Martinez is quoted as saying when he first saw it while it was being finished at Delta TOC that it looked so good he was concerned that the employees would want all the aircraft repainted in it. Actually, the livery on 803DE is somewhat different than the one on 113WA when it overran the end of the runway in BOS.

Either way, I can't think of anybody other than folks in aviation that even remembered the overrun.

What most folks remember, if anything, is the Operation Babylift stuff, and the famous CBS Evening News film of World's founder and president Ed Daly standing with his pistol in the ventral staircase of a World 727 fending off soldiers and other people trying to jump aboard the already-taxiing Last Flight From Da Nang, which was captained by Ken Healy. Healy later flew back to Vietnam on 803DE in August 2005 for the Operation Babylift commemoration, and probably holds the record as PIC of the World ship which, on that flight in 1975, carried the largest number of passengers ever on a 727 that actually got airborne. He also took off from a taxiway with gunfire piercing the aircraft. Great story. Healy also was the captain of one leg of the first Operation Babylift DC8 flight.

Anyway, that's the kind of history that the livery brings back for me. I hope that they maintain at least one aircraft in it, in addition to the "new" livery.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5017 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 13):
What most folks remember, if anything, is the Operation Babylift stuff, and the famous CBS Evening News film of World's founder and president Ed Daly standing with his pistol in the ventral staircase of a World 727 fending off soldiers and other people trying to jump aboard the already-taxiing Last Flight From Da Nang, which was captained by Ken Healy. Healy later flew back to Vietnam on 803DE in August 2005 for the Operation Babylift commemoration, and probably holds the record as PIC of the World ship which, on that flight in 1975, carried the largest number of passengers ever on a 727 that actually got airborne. He also took off from a taxiway with gunfire piercing the aircraft. Great story. Healy also was the captain of one leg of the first Operation Babylift DC8 flight.

I had forgotten about this until you mentioned it.


But, for the TZ DC-10s, will N702TZ and N703TZ eventually get repainted?


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

How many L-1011s does TZ still have flying military charters now? Right now we have 3 TZ L-1011s and a TZ DC-10 here at DFW.

User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4904 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
Right now we have 3 TZ L-1011

Then you have them all! That's a rare sight .......
If they're parked together, a picture would be nice ......... *hint hint*



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4899 times:



Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 16):
Then you have them all! That's a rare sight .......
If they're parked together, a picture would be nice ......... *hint hint*

Ohh, how I wish I had a camera. Yes, all four of the TZ wide bodies are currently parked on the DL 5E Ramp at DFW. Does anyone have a camera?


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4864 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):

Four ? I counted three yesterday morning while taking off, one in full livery, two in white with company logo on the tail. Do I need to get my eyesight checked ?

And why are they parked at Delta Cargo anyhow ?



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4822 times:



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 18):
Four ?

I should be more spacific, 3 L-1011s and one DC-10 for a total of 4 WBs.

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 18):
And why are they parked at Delta Cargo anyhow ?

ATA subleases that ramp from DL for aircraft parking.


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4685 times:



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 13):
Anyway, that's the kind of history that the livery brings back for me. I hope that they maintain at least one aircraft in it, in addition to the "new" livery.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't count on it, but I'd love to see it too. The Global management is very cost conscious and aircraft paint schemes are just not high on the agenda. I would be surprised if WO gets to paint their three "new" DC-10s in their new scheme at all. TZ barely got approval to paint out the red on the "bowling shoe" birds (702, 705, 706).

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 14):
But, for the TZ DC-10s, will N702TZ and N703TZ eventually get repainted?

There is no N703TZ. N702, 705, and 706TZ will get partially repainted as described above in reply 2.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 18):
Four ?

I should be more spacific, 3 L-1011s and one DC-10 for a total of 4 WBs.

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 18):
And why are they parked at Delta Cargo anyhow ?

ATA subleases that ramp from DL for aircraft parking.

As of this week when N706TZ comes online, TZ will have 7 widebodies; 3 L15s (N162-164AT) and 4 DC10-30s (N701, 702, 705, 706TZ)

TZ has leased a portion of what was once the DL cargo facility at DFW, just that the sign is still there. DFW is now the largest TZ line station and main base for charter ops.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

Are there any pictures of TZ's DC-10s yet?


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4535 times:



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 21):
Are there any pictures of TZ's DC-10s yet?

Of course, just do search on here or sister site myaviation.net or on those other nameless airliner photo sites.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4422 times:



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 20):
As of this week when N706TZ comes online, TZ will have 7 widebodies

Is 7 WB all that ATA plans on having in their fleet? I thought TZ bought 9 of the former NW DC-10s, including the one used just for parts. That should leave 8 former DC-10-30s available to fly the charters, plus any of the L-1011-500s TZ may keep.


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4378 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Is 7 WB all that ATA plans on having in their fleet? I thought TZ bought 9 of the former NW DC-10s, including the one used just for parts. That should leave 8 former DC-10-30s available to fly the charters, plus any of the L-1011-500s TZ may keep.


Yes, 7 WBs (3 L15s, 4 DC10s) are all that are planned for 2008.

While 9 ex-NWA airframes were purchased, the original plan was for TZ to operate 7 with 2 spare airframes. The Global acquisition of WO has changed the plan whereby WO will get 3 (ex-N237NW (N136WA), N241NW (N137WA), N242NW (N138WA)) of the 9 airframes to replace MD11s off lease as they have a greater need for WBs than TZ. Actually N136WA is currently in work at SAT with the others to follow.

TZ will stop at 4 DC-10s this year, but may bring out the remaining 2 airframes (N223NW, N224NW) next year as N707TZ and N708TZ if the business case allows it. These would be replacements for the L15s as they are now planned to retire at the end of 2008. The current TZ WB plan is for 6 aircraft, but if business declines, then just the L15s may be retired leaving just 4 DC10s long term. This plan is to be revisited early next year so is somewhat fluid at this point, but the L15s will get C checks beginning this month.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
25 KC135TopBoom : Thanks. Are the L-1011s due C checks aready? It seems not that long ago they gor D checks, but I guess with the number of hours they have flown, a C
26 Wjcandee : It came in from Green Bay, WI. So I think we can guess who it was carrying. (You guys are going to be like the only people who get to see what should
27 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : Alright........ Packers 34, Cowboys 9 It will be the Packers and Patriots in the Super Bowl, again.
28 TZTriStar500 : TZ L10 C checks are due every 13 months regardless of when D checks are due or last done.
29 474218 : Where are you going for the C Checks?
30 Post contains links Wjcandee : And we civilians, if we are so inclined, can look at the MP-10 manual to get the schedule details at www.atareliability.com It's a pretty darn cool s
31 Post contains images BH : As always " WJCANDEE" your post are always informative, thats one nice website. Thanks a lot!, both N702TZ and N705TZ checked into BWI today.
32 TZTriStar500 : They'll be done at Victorville Aerospace. 164 in late Dec. followed by 162 in Feb. and 163 May through June. As a TZ employee, frankly I am surprised
33 Typhaerion : TZ does that same sort of program for the 738 and 757 aircraft, forgoing the "D-Check" with workcards throughout the C-Check system and in an intricat
34 474218 : While I find it really interesting reading, I agree with you that it should not be on the internet. I just wish I had a password, as I would love to
35 B52murph : Sorry if I missed the retirement post, but have not been online for a while. When did N161AT retire? That was the first -500 series TriStar I flew on
36 Wjcandee : Ooops. Hope I didn't let some cat out of the bag that will now cause the whole site to be password-protected. It just came up in a Yahoo! search that
37 Typhaerion : Sadly, 161 made her last trip to ROW on June 17th of this year. She will be missed. And this is our theory on the crime anyway. We have to give this
38 KC135TopBoom : So the L-1011s will be with TZ for at least another year?
39 Notdownnlocked : As an employee who does a lot of contracts for other carriers my thoughts are that by having this info on the web allows quick access to those who ha
40 KC135TopBoom : Putting it that way, it will help TZ keep their airplanes healthy during their military charter contracts.
41 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : As much as I want to see more TZ DC-10s, I really don't want to see the TZ L-1011s go.
42 TZTriStar500 : She is scheduled to complete tomorrow and should be in DFW this week if all goes well. While I agree, it is just becoming completely unmanageable to
43 KC135TopBoom : That could spell the end of L-1011 operations all around the world, except for the RAF.
44 OceansWorld : Do you know which MD-11s are going off leases ?
45 474218 : The RAF incorporates all Airworthiness Directives when or before they become due. They will do the engine mods and the outer rear spar mod when they
46 TZTriStar500 : Well, not necessarily. It comes down to building a business case to comply and spend the money. In our case it will probably not make business sense
47 Wjcandee : The ex-Delta birds which are owned by UPS. The other MD11 leases are staggered expirations out beyond the UPS expirations, I believe. Remember that W
48 Post contains images OceansWorld : Thanks for your replies. I should have known that but completely forgot these three. I was already wondering which of the 27XWA were to go.
49 ORDagent : With Global Aero Logistics being a parent company of three brands I was wondering if it would be to the advantage of the company to paint all the bird
50 Wjcandee : Let's hope that never happens. Why dump North American's excellent livery? It's part of their identity to customers and to employees. If one starts p
51 Luv2fly : The problem is that the TZ crews cockpit and FA's are not trained on the World/North American Metal
52 TZTristar500 : It won't happen for the reasons stated because not all three airlines operate the same type of aircraft and for those that they do (WO/TZ DC10s, NA/T
53 Luv2fly : Ah yes the "With ATA your on vacation" branding. Do you remember the palm tree patches that were sewn on the uniforms to go with the paint scheme. Me
54 TZTriStar500 : Yes, the one that George Mikelsons hated...said it made us look like a "backpack and flip flop" airline, hence the 2001 remake which never was comple
55 Post contains images B52murph : One has to laugh...I'm sure I'm not the only GI that stepped into N161AT on a hot ramp over the last few years and wondered..."Hmm...never knew a rem
56 TZTriStar500 : She's still in full livery, but slowly being picked apart to keep the others aloft.
57 KC135TopBoom : Yes, in a rather boring livery, white fuselarge, dark blue tail, and yellow "ATA" logo on the forward sides. Even the red and gray ATA DC-10s have a
58 Typhaerion : Maybe 'exciting,' but certainly not eye-appealing. Matter of opinion though.
59 KC135TopBoom : It is still good to see the old DC-10-30s and L-1011-500s still flying.
60 Jlbmedia : BatonOps, glad you are home, hope all is well. Will you have to return? God Bless!
61 Post contains images Typhaerion : Agreed. It is really nice to have some history instead of all these new-fangled hotrods with their great performance running around doing our bidding
62 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : I do too. Put me on an old B-707, B-727, or DC-8.
63 Wjcandee : That's what I thought the guy meant: easy to subservice while preserving a common brand identity. And, if I recall your comments at the time, the RB2
64 Post contains links Typhaerion : In large part, yes. I think that has to be a qualified answer because in essence it was one of about a million factors leading to the retiring of N19
65 Post contains links Wjcandee : She sure looks sweet. As do these. How exactly do you think they run these aircraft with -22Bs without anybody being able to properly overhaul and/or
66 Bennett123 : I do not recognise the operators or airframes.
67 474218 : The two Elsaker Air -500's are ex-Globe Air. Yes.
68 DLD9S : I like flying out of DFW... Between the TZ DC-10s and L-1011s and the MG 727s that are all parked on the south side of the airport I can pretend that
69 Wjcandee : Sorry. Duh. The link I posted doesn't reveal the captions. According to the Skyliner captions (as 474218 astutely already revealed above): "Kallat El
70 ZuluLima : Don't forget the UPS 747-100s, -200s, and UPS and ATI DC-8s.
71 TZTriStar500 : Certainly not, just look at the list of places where many of the L-1011-50s/100s that are left are registered in: XT = Burkina Faso EX = Kyrgyzstan T
72 B52murph : Well I'll be...NEVAH would have thought it possible. 'Ole 194 launching out again; mis-colored left cowling and all (was that way when I flew on her
73 KC135TopBoom : I don't think I'll ever want to fly these jets again.
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