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Southwest 737 Engine Damage  
User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 19364 times:

http://www.wkyc.com/news/national/news_article.aspx?storyid=78741


wow...how could this happen?


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13193 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19340 times:

Maybe some type of unknown or undetected flaw in a fan blade? Don't forget that fatigue and a tiny flaw in a center engine fan blade severing poorly placed hydraulic control lines, caused the UA crash landing in Sioux Falls many years ago. At least in this case the engine failure didn't cause a loss of control or of life. I would assume this a/c and engine will be given a major investigation to determine it's cause, to see if preventable and who is liable for the damage.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12178 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19333 times:

I think this is the first time I have heard of this happening with a CFM-56 engine.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19082 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
I think this is the first time I have heard of this happening with a CFM-56 engine.

The CFM-56 has been around since 1982, and this is also the first incident that I'm aware of..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM-56


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18910 times:

I think its a vibration problem that resulted in a cracked fan blade. But the cold section housing is too rigid for a runaway fan blade. But who knows. Someone in Tech/Ops would anwser this for me. I have not worked enough on CFM's to figure this one out..... Sad

Kudos to the pilots for getting the aircraft back to DAL! And the FA's for keeping their pax calm in the situation.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18922 times:

I came across some more pictures on this site. Nothing like an uncontained engine failure to ruin your day. It's lucky that nobody was hurt by the debris.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12178 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18761 times:

It would be nice to find out what happened to this engine. My initial reaction is this is a one time failure for that perticular engine. It is not a CFM-56/F-108 engine wide problem.

Wikipedia says there are over 13,000 CFM-56/F-108 engines in service. Does that place it second to the JT-8D engine?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18749 times:

Looks like a Drifted Fan blade.
When will the preliminary investigation report be out.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18707 times:

Have the separated parts been located by chance? I haven't heard if they have or haven't.

User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18655 times:



Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 5):
I came across some more pictures on this site.

Oh good lord.. The commentary makes my eyes bleed.

Quote:
I was sitting on that engine watching it happen with my own two eyes

Oh Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaally?

Quote:
The fan blades shot out towards the plane leaving holes on the engine cowlings and a huge hole on th other side.

Well, if they "shot out towards the plane" how did they create a "huge hole on th other side"

The fan blades must have been forged out of the magic bullet that killed JFK.

Quote:
The chunk was on the outer side of the engine not seen from our view but could be seen while walking off the aircraft.

This due to WNs new Starboard side de-planing policy?

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 8):
Have the separated parts been located by chance? I haven't heard if they have or haven't.

Pretty much 0% chance of that happening.


User currently offlineDBCC From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 18391 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):
Oh good lord.. The commentary makes my eyes bleed.

Quote:
I was sitting on that engine watching it happen with my own two eyes

I am still waiting for the commentary from the "eye-witness" that he noticed the engine intake was flattened at the bottom, so it must have been caused by maintenance dropping the engine and SW then flew on to save money instead of repairing it.


User currently offlineAogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 18352 times:



Quoting DBCC (Reply 10):
I am still waiting for the commentary

It was ME!!! I saw the mechanics drop the engine on the ground, and it immediately flattened the bottom. Then they picked it up, looked at it, shrugged....and pointed at me as if to say "don't tell anyone anything you saw". Then we taxied across the ...tarmac...and flew untiil the engine blew up.

 Wink


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 18323 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):
The fan blades must have been forged out of the magic bullet that killed JFK.

Well, the flight did originate in Dallas.  duck 


User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1783 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 18233 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Wikipedia says there are over 13,000 CFM-56/F-108 engines in service. Does that place it second to the JT-8D engine?

What's more amazing is the wide variety of aircraft variants of the engine hang from ... USAF planes (I'm presuming re-engined KC135s), classic 737s, NG 737s, Airbus A318-321, A340s, etc.

Almost like the RB211, it seems to pop up everywhere.

- litz


User currently offlineTcv From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 18195 times:

Maybe this is that Twilight Zone episode come to life?

Was anyone carried off on a stretcher? Was it William Shatner?

As a self-stated "fearful flyer," it does me good to read success stories like these. No wild gyrating, no plummets, just a return to Love and a safe landing. Nice.  Smile


User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 18109 times:

Could it be something like the fan blade that seperated on the Delta MD-88 in the 90's (plane still in service). While this did considerably less damage than that case it sounds similer.


Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineMolykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 18059 times:
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Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 1):
Maybe some type of unknown or undetected flaw in a fan blade? Don't forget that fatigue and a tiny flaw in a center engine fan blade severing poorly placed hydraulic control lines, caused the UA crash landing in Sioux Falls many years ago.

The Sioux City DC-10 incident you refer to was caused by a flawed fan disk rather than a single fan blade.

Certification requirements are such that the loss of a single fan blade (and any ensuing aftermath) needs to be "contained" by the fan case (we've probably all seen the videos). Judging by the large hole in the inlet cowl skin, it looks like radial expulsion of material may have occurred (i.e. the fan blade was not contained). This situation would demonstrate why no certification test is perfect and would also represent a condition FAR more serious than the "hole in an acoustic panel" reported in this article.

I draw a distinction between the DC-10 fan disk issue and this fan blade incident because the rupture of a fan disk is generally not expected to be contained by the fan case containment structure (while the loss of a single fan blade is expected to be contained). The disintegration of a fan disk will likely result in the liberation of multiple fan blades in addition to the heavy disk pieces (which, even at reduced cruise thrust, is a much worse scenario than the loss of 1 fan blade just above max thrust).



Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 18033 times:

Does anyone know what the ships number is?

That did not look good at all. I would guess this was just a freak accident and hopefully when SW and the NTSB come out with a report we will learn more.



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 17894 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):

I have to agree with you on the commenting of that article. Some of those folks over-dramaticize the situation and make a big deal about it. I doubt the situation was as bad as those people claim it to be. The pilots did their job well and handled it well at the same time.

As I said before, Kudos to the crew for their efforts.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineKearnet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 17324 times:

As an observation, I notice that the cone (forgive me, I think of the correct name at the moment) that goes of the front of the engine (Ya' know the one that usually has a swirly painted on it) is missing. Could it be that it was what came loose? Physics would suggest that at the speed of the air coming into the engine would hold it on, but if it was miss aligned, that might force it off. Just a thought

User currently offlineFilton From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16658 times:



Quoting Molykote (Reply 16):
Certification requirements are such that the loss of a single fan blade (and any ensuing aftermath) needs to be "contained" by the fan case (we've probably all seen the videos)

I thought this too. How long has this requirement been around? Is it something that has come in since the CFM-56 entered service?

From the pictures it doesn't look like there is an obvious single initial point of failure. The damage seems fairly evenly spread out around the circumfrence, almost like it was caused by FOD ingestion rather than a single blade failure by fatigue. Will be interested to see what the cause was.

Goog thing that fan didn't let go 180 degrees earlier though.


User currently offlineContinental180 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16634 times:

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!!!

this happened to another airline like 2 days ago, where the complete engine fell off!!

ahh!!!!!


User currently offlineFilton From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16566 times:

Actually, looking at it again - where is the spinner?

I wonder if something caused the spinner to shatter. This would result in radial debris and multi blade damage, fairly evenly spaced as seen. I just wonder if a spinner is tough enough to do this to an engine - they are quite sturdy in my recollection.

Also- it looks like it is the acousitic liner that has been punctured, not the fan casing.

[Edited 2007-11-27 14:43:52]

User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 16391 times:

I wonder if this case has similarities to Delta Flight 1288

NTSB report


User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 16153 times:



Quoting N231YE (Reply 23):
wonder if this case has similarities to Delta Flight 1288



Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 15):
Could it be something like the fan blade that seperated on the Delta MD-88 in the 90's (plane still in service). While this did considerably less damage than that case it sounds similer.

That's the one I was talking about. I just could not remember the flight number.



Just say NO to scabs.
25 MDorBust : Looking at all the pictures, I do not believe the visable damage to be caused by an uncontained departing fan blade, but that the visable damage was c
26 Spacepope : Actually, when the Mesa CRJ had the uncontained failure a few months back, we had Teller County SAR and law enforcement out scouring the hills for th
27 Peteg913 : OMGWTFLOLZ!!!!1111 The flight attendant was crying and the other one was on oxygen! People were saying their goodbyes! I guess that means no peanuts
28 Post contains links Jawed : More pictures of the engine: http://blog.flightstory.net/437/follow-up-southwest-engine-failure/
29 Post contains images FLY2HMO : I found it interesting how some of the blades are pretty much gone, specially in the 2, 5, 7 and 10 o'clock points. I guess its pretty obvious that it
30 SJC4Me : Dumb.
31 BR715-A1-30 : I KNEW IT... A CONSPIRACY!!!! Where is 737Doctor when you need him? Ok, that is a little TOO dramatic. Everybody here knows that passengers are NEVER
32 Post contains images OPNLguy : Why, like he (or I, for that matter) would provide detailed info? (Ain't gonna happen..)
33 ZTagged : Wait.. Let's go back to the 90s for a minute.. BMI Kegworth Disaster was caused by a fractured fanblade (CFM-56, B734 if memory serves me right), corr
34 KELPkid : At cruise? Not likely...fractured fan blades usually manifest themselves at higher power settings...
35 Spacecadet : Some of you guys are being pretty flippant about what it was probably like on that plane. As someone who's lived through an uncontained engine failure
36 ZTagged : Could've been some strong headwinds.. Anyhow, here's an exerpt from the BMI incident in '92 (Used from Untrustworthypedia): FL290 climb (depending on
37 Qantas787 : Well said Spacecadet. Aircraft DO crash and when they do we don't discuss on this forum about how everyone overreacted during the crisis on the aircr
38 BR715-A1-30 : Going by what Spacecadet has said, Would this officially be classified as an "Uncontained Engine Failure"? Nowhere in the article does it say it suffe
39 Tdscanuck : Bingo. The fan case is required to contain a fan blade. The inlet/acoustic liner isn't. Which is fine, because for a blade to get from the fan plane
40 Tcfc424 : Some are thinking that the spinner came off and caused this damage?!? I have to embarass myself here a bit...pilots, I know you don't want rampers scr
41 Post contains images CALMSP : has anyone seen the clip from NBC?? How 'bout that spokesman from Southwest...............she looks pretty good!!
42 Airfoilsguy : Did the engine fail? Yes. Was the failure contained within the engine? Hardly. I would call this an uncontained engine failure. d
43 XT6Wagon : Its not an "uncontained engine failure" the way the rules and regulations define it. Just because there is a hole in the stuff wrapped around the engi
44 AirPortugal310 : Get outta here...really? Its foam? Thats very cool indeed
45 Filton : If the A319 had V2500 engines, then the tip of the spinner is made from rubber. This is a cunning Rolls Royce invention that eliminates the need for
46 Post contains images CLE757 : Yes she does!
47 Kearnet : Hmmm, this solves one problem I had with my initial hypothesis, that being if the spinner was metal and separated I would assume the damage would be
48 Filton : Only the very tip, maybe 2 inches long, is rubber on the V2500s. I'm sure there are some pictures around of this However this is a CFM-56. I believe t
49 Airfoilsguy : NASA found out that fact the hard way.
50 N53614 : Those are crazy photos! I'm glad no one got hurt.
51 BR715-A1-30 : It couldn't have been a bird strike at FL250 anyway. Birds can't fly that high. AFAIK anyway
52 SkyHarborsHome : Sure some of you have already thought it, but I will be the brave one and post. Nothing can be ruled out at this point including a bird (thought it w
53 Post contains images Mattbna : I know that the aircraft involved was a -300, but does anyone have any idea what the tail number is?!? OPNLGuy? Thanks, Matt --
54 Silver1SWA : Nope, on the 737 it is a solid composite material.
55 Post contains links and images Filton : This is the rubber tip of the V2500. It's the grey section at the very tip. View Large View MediumPhoto © Franco Zunino S And the CFM 56 spinner
56 Post contains links and images Mattbna : It doesn't matter much here but just for comparison purposes to the photo above, the 737-300 (don't know the reg #) that was involved in the WN incid
57 Peteg913 : Why, thank you!
58 Tdscanuck : There is *zero* requirement to contain a failure within the engine. Given that there is a ~700 mph wind blowing through the engine, it's basically im
59 SEPilot : It still amazes me that jet engines are as reliable as they are. Just the fact that we are discussing this one incident as extensively as we are, and
60 JetMech : Indeed, modern turbofans are wonders of engineering and very reliable. I confess I have no idea what actually happened, but it is evident that fan bl
61 BR715-A1-30 : When TWA operated the Connies, weren't they averaging around 10 break-downs per day. That had to be a PAIN to constantly be working on those. Especial
62 N231YE : The PW R4360 on the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser was worse. In fact, I recall reading that it was made fun of: "the best 3 engined airliner in the pacifi
63 SEPilot : I read somewhere that when TWA bought their first jets (I believe they were 707's) they bought spare engines in the quantity that they would have use
64 Ikramerica : I see it the other way... Exactly. When you consider how many CFMs are out there, how often they fly, etc., the fact it's so rare for such an event m
65 Post contains images Viscount724 : The Wright 3350 on the Connie (and DC-7) was notoriously unreliable, as was the P&W R4360 which must have been the most complex piston engine ever bu
66 Post contains images ComairGuyCVG : In this case the wind chill factor is irrelevant. The wind chill only exists for humans with exposed skin. The Nerd projectile frozen to -55F is stil
67 Flipdewaf : and at mach 0.78 it'll a tad warmer than outside as well. Fred
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