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Bmi LHR-LBA Service Under Threat  
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5178 times:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...ts_raised_over_london_air_link.php

Quote:
The future of the only air link between Leeds-Bradford International Airport and London has been called into question by airline bosses.

Sir Michael Bishop, chairman of airline BMI - the only airline to fly between Leeds-Bradford and Heathrow - has called into question the cost of airport charges at the Yeadon airport and described them as an issue that needs to be resolved in order to maintain the service.

A letter from Sir Michael to Michael Goodwin, chairman of Leeds-Bradford, lists a series of concerns regarding the Heathrow service.

In the letter Sir Michael says: "These fees will need to drop significantly in cash terms for the service to remain viable.

"Airport charges are a big percentage of the cost base of any short haul route and remain higher at Leeds Bradford than we pay at any other airports in our network.

"We note that the airport has been recently sold at a premium and its new owners will be keen to re-coup their investment.

"Therefore this is a serious issue and we did write to the financial advisors handling the bid process making them aware of our requirement to pay considerably less if the service was to be maintained."

Sir Michael also mentions that other regional airports have gained financial support from "local interests", desperate to retain the link to Heathrow and suggested this as an option for Leeds-Bradford.

He also urged business and leisure groups to "use the service or lose it".

The issue is to be discussed at a Leeds-Bradford Airport Consultative Committee meeting tomorrow. Sir Michael had been responding to a letter from Mr Goodwin, expressing concerns that the connection may be under threat due to the knock on effect of increased charges at Heathrow.

Peter Willis, operations director at Leeds-Bradford played down the speculation that the service could be lost between the region and Heathrow.

He said that the level of charges would be discussed between both parties - although a settlement was some way from being established.

He also said that passenger levels on the London Heathrow service "went through peaks and troughs".

BMI operates several services a day between Leeds-Bradford and Heathrow.




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68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

Taking account of the need to arrive at the airport 1/2 hours before take off, I wonder whether it would be as quick by train.

User currently offlineCallumm92 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5081 times:



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 1):
Taking account of the need to arrive at the airport 1/2 hours before take off, I wonder whether it would be as quick by train.

 checkmark  And the slots at LHR could probably be used more profitably elsewhere, for expansion to the Middle East/USA.


User currently offlineBoeing74741R From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 1164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4958 times:



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 1):
Taking account of the need to arrive at the airport 1/2 hours before take off, I wonder whether it would be as quick by train.

And there is now a 30 minute rail frequency between Leeds-London Kings Cross, courtesy of GNER (soon to become National Express East Coast).


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

One fact that is often forgotten about the train is that is not attractive for anyone who needs to go to LHR for a connection. Train to Kings Cross, tube to Paddington and Heathrow Express is not attractive for anyone with luggage. Until we get intercity and high speed services to Heathrow, the train is no option for connecting passengers


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineBoeing74741R From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 1164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4674 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):
One fact that is often forgotten about the train is that is not attractive for anyone who needs to go to LHR for a connection. Train to Kings Cross, tube to Paddington and Heathrow Express is not attractive for anyone with luggage. Until we get intercity and high speed services to Heathrow, the train is no option for connecting passengers

Correct, but apart from people going to LHR on transit the train option is attractive for just about everybody else.


User currently offlineLHRBlueSkies From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4593 times:



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 5):
but apart from people going to LHR on transit the train option is attractive for just about everybody else.

It would be interesting to know the percentage of onward and local pax arriving at LHR from LBA?



flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4592 times:

Weren't they going to review ALL domestic routes anyway?? Not a total surprise really the way slots at LHR are.

User currently offlineJonnyWishbone From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

It's great if you are going to the modernist concrete jungle that is Slough, but for the centre of town, the train wins hands down.

The service is not overly reliable, the embraers are horrible and if you need to connect, fly from MAN.

I think it's only a matter of time before it goes and the only real losers will be northern cabin crew, who'll have to go to MAN or drive!


User currently offlineAntonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

I am surprised the MME service hasnt gone yet. I thought that would go before LBA, I rememebr working in MME many years ago and we had 5 DC9 flights a day MME - LHR

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4406 times:



Quoting Antonovman (Reply 9):
I am surprised the MME service hasnt gone yet. I thought that would go before LBA, I rememebr working in MME many years ago and we had 5 DC9 flights a day MME - LHR

Sooner or later MME, LBA, BRU and AMS will go. Slots are better used somewhere else.

Is there in the world another big hub like LHR which so poorly connected to its domestic destinations? UK drama.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

UK dismal situation. I use LBA-LHR as a means to connecting to other flights, as does many of the regular passengers. This rtoute axe will be a pian in the neck. Plus the person who moaned about the Embrarers and the fact MAN is better, remember we at LBA still get free drinks on BMI.

User currently offlineJonnyWishbone From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4109 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 11):
remember we at LBA still get free drinks on BMI

Do we... Not to LHR as Joe Public you don't, certainly do on Regional services, but not mainline during the week.

I was being a bit mean... will be sorry to see it go, but with Gordon's joke eco tax hikes, the thing isn't worth it unless you get a Baby fare and you have to do that 364 days in advance for the morning flight down!

Parking at Leeds £ 20, Ticket £ 320, Heathrow Express £ 30 - Daft money for a day in town and a sporadic service to say the least.

Train £ 260 first class, wi-fi all the way and as many free shortbreads as you can half inch, Service every half hour and quicker.

Sadly it doesn't add up for bmi.


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

I guess so. I feel the end is nigh for this route. I remember when BD axed LPL and EMA-LHR

User currently offlineSam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4010 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):
the train is no option for connecting passengers

...which will mean connecting passengers will just go to AMS and connect to European and worldwide services from there. So Star Alliance will probably suffer a bit.

I have used the LHR-LBA link many times and it has only seemed busy on Sunday evenings, when the trains finish early and lots of people need to get back to Yorkshire having spent the weekend in the south east.

If this route goes it will be an enormous blow the Yorkshire economy. Leeds Airport is struggling (apart from the low cost services, other routes seem to be chopped and changed all the time) and the loss of a link to London will be tragic.

LPL, BLK, EMA, HUY and BHX have all lost their London services. LBA is just another on the list as transitting passengers use AMS instead and domestic passengers take the train or car.



Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

I agree, we could have seen this one coming couldnt we? Im sure KL will be delighted as their operation will no doubt nenefit and we may see an increase in AMS services to and from LBA.

The domestic cituation in this country is adysmal. Routes are constantly being announced, built up and then axed. BMI are spealists at this iw seems.


User currently offlineSam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3991 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 15):
The domestic situation in this country is adysmal

Look what happened in France - they built the TGV and passenger numbers plummeted on routes such has CDG-LYS and CDG-MRS.

It's a pity as it is LHR that will suffer as yet again passengers are forced to go abroad for connections.

The future for UK domestic air travel is not bright.



Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3985 times:

The domestic route network taken as a whole, within the UK is appalling. we loose so many transfer passengers through other hubs namely, AMS, but also CDG and increasingly MAD.

Our rail network cannot be compared to the excellent fast networks of the TGV in France or the Swiss service. We need vital air links with our capital and the regions. sadly EK and the like squeeze out airlines like Manx and BD domestic flights and we are left with changing trains umpteen times to get to Heathrow.


User currently offlineBmiexpat From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3957 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 15):
The domestic cituation in this country is adysmal. Routes are constantly being announced, built up and then axed. BMI are spealists at this iw seems.

Can you give any evidence to back up the claim that bmi are specialists in announcing, building up and axing domestic routes? The way I see it bmi have the biggest domestic network from LHR, approx 48 daily flights to the regions as well as maintaining a faily decent regional operation from LBA and MAN to Scotland.


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

Rumours of MME and LBA being cancelled. Actual services from LPL, BHX, EMA all cancelled. No LHR connections now from these airports due to BD pulling out. They announce other routes too, like the recent proposed one from Luton which rather didnt happern or happened for a few days.

User currently offlineBmiexpat From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Orion737, apart from a recent route from LTN that was announced but not started (which I have no idea about, perhaps you can give some more details about that), the only other examples you can give are rumours and routes that were axed over 8 years ago!!! I can see what you mean about bmi being specialists at announcing, building and dropping routes.

User currently offlineZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3896 times:

BMI Regional route starts and stops:

Aberdeen-Amsterdam (launched & axed after one season)
Aberdeen-Brussels (launched & axed after one season)
Southampton-Amsterdam (put on sale but never flown)
Leeds-Cork
Leeds-Jersey
Leeds-Lille (launched & axed after one season)
East Midlands-Jersey
Leeds-Paris
Manchester-Toulouse
East Midlands-Paris (moved back to Baby)
Luton-Brussels (put on sale but never flown)
Glasgow-Knock (flown then dropped, Baby now starting the route some time later)
Various efforts at Edinburgh-Munich including putting on sale

Not exactly a clean record, is it?


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

Clean record? It needs taking to a 90Oc wash cycle with a Biological soapowder.

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5575 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

MAN-TLS was dropped because there was not anough business traffic to sustain it after Jet2 started, so they instead switched to Lyon which flyBE had just dropped (former BA Connect). Makes sense since there was a whole in the market...

Last year BD increased frequenceies on LHR-MME due to high demand, doesn't sound like they will drop it then. LBD alas, it can only be a matter of time... KL will lap it up, and eventually surely EK will start (is the runway campable of a 330?) due to the level of ethnic traffic out of the region.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3842 times:

They fought so hard to bring a business class product to the LHR-AMS, BRU, CDG markets and then did a policy U turn which ailienated their higher end business travellers and helped out their rivals. thus they are operating an LCC service from high monetary gateways.

I think a certain founder, who fought so hard for these routes has finally gone bananas, trying to destroy what he built up and the very essence, the business traveller, which he built his business around/for.


25 ZuluTime : Frequency increase on LHR-MME was only about holding slots - nothing more, nothing less. The route used to have five flights a day (as did LBA-LHR) an
26 Post contains links David_itl : Whilst LBA-LHR may go due "commercial considerations", it looks like MAN-LHR may be canned due to "political considerations" should the Conservative P
27 Orion737 : This is the 'personal' view of one Tory MP, not the Conservative party line. Has BD managed to maintain market share on the MAN-LHR route since their
28 Sam1987 : Not high demand - just slot warmers at LHR BD currently have five flights a day (four A319s and the late evening BD421/422 operated by one of their L
29 XXXX10 : Used to use thois route about 4 times a year, it was about the same price as going by trian First Class. Tried to book a couple of months ago and it w
30 Post contains images Zkojh : intresting reading an artical 2nite, and if LHR get the 3rd runway, then regional routes to the north/midlands and the west country would stay and be
31 BMED : I always thought that the ERJ flight was a slot warmer as it departed so close to the other LBA flight?
32 Sam1987 : They offer reasonable prices on those routes (I assume because of competition from other carriers) but the LHR-LBA prices are not reasonable at all.
33 UK_Dispatcher : Add MAN-NWI to that list too. I personally hope the LHR-MME route remains. MME is BD's longest served route from LHR - now in its 38th year. I do hop
34 XXXX10 : Absolutely. I refuse to pay more to fly to LBA than it costs to go yo EDI/GLA Also there is a real time saving on the longer flights.
35 APYu : If it was that important to the Yorkshire economy more people would be using it and it wouldnt be under threat.
36 Sam1987 : True, but a regular air service from LHR to any airport in the UK is good for the local economy even if the flights are only half full.
37 David_itl : Especially if some airlines don't exactly like flying out of the regions!
38 Bmiexpat : And if the flights are only half full, is the airline still going to make any money on it or should they be flying the route and making a loss out of
39 GT4EZY : If BA were to operate this route, I am sure they would have more success due to the fact that they have a huge amount of connection possibilities. How
40 Sam1987 : I say BA should take over BD's entire LHR operation!
41 Bmiexpat : And see them axe a load more domestic services to use the slots for long haul flights and increase fares due to lack of competetion... that makes a l
42 Boeing74741R : You are on drugs right?
43 Gkyip : The other option being MAN which is only an hour or so drive away, and linked by a frequent and direct rail service. MAN-LHR served by both BMI and B
44 Bmiexpat : I nearly fell off my chair when I read that! It was exactly what I was thinking but too chicken to say!!!!!
45 Farnborough24 : For anyone looking to go from Leeds to London I think it is indeed safe to say train is miles better. I'm pretty sure fast services take 2 hours 20 mi
46 Humberside : National Express have won the East Coast Main Line franchise and are to use the National Express name as part of a rebranding exercise across the who
47 Orion737 : I disagree with Farnbourough. If you lived in the IOm, jersey or Guernsey you would find it very time consuming to get to LHR to catch your connecting
48 Shankly : Used to catch this flight alot and BMI certainly used to mix up the equipment; various 737's, F100's and even once an A321. Always found it amusing th
49 FlyCaledonian : Now that we have High Speed 1 (St Pancras to the Channel; Tunnel) we should be getting behing High Speed 2 - with spurs from Heathrow and St Pancras r
50 Sam1987 : Nope. How many other capital city hubs have two airlines flying an extensive domestic network? LHR only needs one carrier to do that - and that's BA.
51 Tealema : What are the chances that National Express make a complete hash of the ECML franchise today? - They took it over about 5mins ago. Its unlikely I know,
52 Commavia : Yep, a sad but true reality. The fact is that domestic services ex-Heathrow these days have to be pretty big in order to justify their existence and,
53 BlueShamu330s : Commavia It is refreshing to get the viewpoint of someone "looking in" from the outside, and sadly it reflects the view I hear so often on board, one
54 Commavia : It's just so sad for an anglophile like me who loves Britain and British people so deeply, and has for so long. Britain is such a wonderful country -
55 JoFMO : And Britain needs to get its act together and start building a domestic high speed rail network with a spur line to LHR. It is just pathetic that ther
56 AIR MALTA : I don't think so... If they could take over BMI, they will reduce frequencies on some duplicate routes and keep the regions served. Services to AMS a
57 Adriaticflight : I believe routes like this shouldn't be allowed to fly! With all the talk of global warming it just doesn't make sense to fly a route of that distance
58 David_itl : Aren't practically all of the domestic services that use LHR (and the other London airports) quicker than public transport? Or are you tagging in the
59 BrianDromey : Try getting from Leeds to LHR by public transport" Lets say I want to get on the EI725 to ORK, it departs from T1 at 22:10. I could take BD419 from L
60 BA757 : I don't see the big deal myself, and this is true of MAN as well. Why would you want to connect in LHR? It's a nightmare, and not only that, the shutt
61 Boeing74741R : Well said! I'm also with you about taking the train for central London. Yes I've seen the Pendolino's wedged to the brim but I can get a Saver Return
62 BrianDromey : I would have to disagree with you here. LHR is no worse than any other large hub. They are all a pain in the arse, IMHO. All of them involve walking,
63 Post contains images Commavia : But that's just it - it doesn't have to be. Heathrow could be - and should be - the preeminent air hub for Europe, and one of the most efficient and
64 BMED : But if your creating more international flights at LHR then who are they for as the people from the UK will be connecting onto long haul flights thro
65 02hilliert : i just booked one-way LBA-LHR for late March, hope the service is still operating then, or i will be less than pleased! i'm booked on BD421, is that E
66 BrianDromey : Usually a 135 I think. Brian.
67 Post contains links Sam1987 : Have a look at this press release from LBA: http://www.lbia.co.uk/newsandupdates-newsstory.php?storyid=20071217 "bmi celebrates 27 years of Yorkshire
68 Boeing74741R : 27 years is a weird number to celebrate. You would think they would've done it after 25, 30, 40, 50 years etc. I get the same impression as you thoug
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