Mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4269 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4231 times:
I understood that PAL? was going to offer SFO-HNL-MNL as well. Wouldn't this be duplicated by Hawaiian? At any rate, I hope the fares are competitive with good transfer times, I'd rather stop in HNL than Narita or Taipai any day.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4174 times:
Hopefully the MNL flights will be timed and advertised to San Diego and Los Angeles where there are large numbers of Plane Always Late...err, PAL passengers waiting to be "captured", especially since the long-rumored-but-never-seen SAN-YVR-MNL flight is all but forgotten...
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 5270 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4055 times:
What HA needs to do is to take advantage of HNL being an excellent strategic hub between Far East Asia and USA/Canada.
Via HNL, HA can offer ONE STOP flights from Asia to YVR + key U.S. markets such as SFO, ORD, LAX, NYC, IAD and Texas which see high density travel demand year round from their respective areas to HKG, MNL, China and Japan.
But HA must be careful as to choosing which cities in Asia are feasible for their current fleet of B 763ERs to operate as well as future ops with the A 358s and A 332s. Currently, the popular ex Hawaii-Asia routes are mainly MNL and Japan. The other markets that I feel can benefit from HA service are HKG, PVG, ICN and PEK only. These cities have a small amount of O&D to HNL (largely leisure / honeymoon traffic) but a far greater amount of 6th freedom traffic bound for YVR and mainland USA which HA can transport via their HNL hub. Getting rights to PVG & PEK might be a problem for HA due to the flight allocation policy for China by the U.S. DOT. Keeping that in mind, HKG & ICN are more easier to get flight approvals for.
As far as Europe goes, obviously the A 358s would be used for those flights, but apart from LGW, I dont see the need for HA to even bother looking at any other city. Frankly speaking, even LGW would be a loss making route for HA. Is there really that much demand for HNL from UK or mainland Europe?
BlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 3396 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4028 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6): Frankly speaking, even LGW would be a loss making route for HA. Is there really that much demand for HNL from UK or mainland Europe?
I think the Brits have something in their genes which made them once want to explore and rule, but which now is reduced to just exploring, thank goodness.
As travel has become more accessible, the shores beyond the Mediterranean have become more appealing. UK charter carriers were the pioneers and main exponents of the 1-stop 757 service to Florida, but Hawaii has never been really on the map because it involved not only a stop but also a likely night stop enroute and a change of aircraft.
I can appreciate with HA's current management they might see the value in a twice weekly non-stop A358 service to LGW with all the connection possibilities HA could offer to Australia and NZ.
It's in our nature to get tired and bored of the same old same old. A carrier which offerred a HNL stop over en-route to Australia would be delivering a tempting alternative to the humdrum of Dubai, Bangkok, Singapore or Hong Kong etc.
With the right marketing, LGW could prove to be lucrative, but.....
......we must acknowledge the possible huge spanner in the works in the form of SRB and Virgin, who very publically stated at the 787 order press conference that HNL would be a definite route for their new aircraft.
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 28492 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3922 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6): Via HNL, HA can offer ONE STOP flights from Asia to YVR + key U.S. markets such as SFO, ORD, LAX, NYC, IAD and Texas
Good luck, HA will be scrapping the bottom of the barrel in revenue gathering the lowest yielding passengers which are willing to go hours longer and route via HNL when the markets you mention have very good (and competitive) direct service to Asia.
The days of HNL and other similar airports as transit locations went away many years ago as newer generation of planes are able to overfly and connect markets directly avoiding such time consuming and out of way stops.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Siege2L From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3688 times:
450nm via HNL from LAX approx :55mins duration via A340 is still more valued than flying PAL LAX-MNL when considering the time it takes to enter security checkpoints at Tom Bradley International Terminal and to arrive at TBIT. 450nm is very minimal compared to security procedures at LAX.
I would much prefer a slightly longer flight duration in a seat as opposed to standing in a queue at LAX. To each his own.
Mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4269 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3613 times:
Depends on if you have to change planes and how long you have to sit. I spend approx 18 hours flying through Taipai from SFO departure to MNL final landing. HNL presents an opportunity to spend a few days in the sun too.
777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2545 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3529 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6): Via HNL, HA can offer ONE STOP flights from Asia to YVR + key U.S. markets such as SFO, ORD, LAX, NYC, IAD and Texas which see high density travel demand year round from their respective areas to HKG, MNL, China and Japan.
ICN is already serviced by KE. They also offer a slew of n/s flights from ICN to most major cities in North America. If the demand for HNL were high enough, OZ would jump in too. HA would struggle to compete with both carriers.
All of the other US cities you mentioned also have a pile of nonstop flights to/from Asia which are serviced by both US and foreign carriers. HA would more than likely struggle to market the extra time and expense that would be required to put enough butts in the seats.
HNL-MNL is a no-brainer because of Oahu's huge Filipino population. No doubt they'd like to offer flights to PEK, HKG and PVG, much in the same way that Air China would like to consider flying to the Hawaiian Islands. Chinese tourists have plenty of "nearby" vacations options in Asia that are also considerably more affordable as well. Moreover, Hawaii doesn't offer gambling - a "must have" if they're to compete with Macau, among other places.
Quoting Mham001 (Reply 12): Depends on if you have to change planes and how long you have to sit
Quoting Mham001 (Reply 12): HNL presents an opportunity to spend a few days in the sun too.
Also depends if you're traveling on biz or leisure. Biz pax will almost always opt for the most direct service on a carrier that offers frequent flier perks that they can redeem any time, anywhere. HA's partnerships are somewhat limited in that regard. We'll see what happens with their expansion.