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LH Is Concidering Two New Destinations In China  
User currently offlineLHBSL From Switzerland, joined Mar 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8292 times:

Hi

LH will fly from next year to two new destinations in China. Should be "near" Beijing and "near" Shanghai. Anybody know the names of the towns?
Thanks for the answers¨!

Regards

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 830 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8289 times:

Tianjin and Nanjing is the two biggest cities near to Beijing and Shanghai.


Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8133 times:



Quoting LHBSL (Thread starter):
LH will fly from next year to two new destinations in China

I wonder where they would get the aircraft from.

LH will receive 8 new widebodies in 2008 (5 333s and 3 346s) + and they use 1 more converted A300, now used on ADD, KHT, KHI, LHE. So let's say 9 new a/c compared to summer 2007.

But if they do not have any changes to their 2007 summer schedule plus the already announced new flights they pretty much used all their new a/c for:

FRA-KHI-LHE
FRA-MCO
FRA-SEA
FRA-YYC
DUS-ORD
DUS-YYZ
DUS-EWR
MUC-SIN
MUC-BOM (has this been confirmed yet?)
MUC-EWR upgrade from Private Air

Not all of these flights are daily, so maybe 1 is still available. I do not know how many additional converted 300s will LH add for 2008 and if through optimizing fleet utilization LH could free up a/c.
But from my point of view, unless they cut other flights, there is not much more expansion possible in 2008.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineCyba From Cape Verde, joined Nov 2005, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8055 times:

Could these new destinations be served as tag-ons to existing services to either PEK or PVG?

User currently offlineBlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7994 times:



Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
MUC-BOM (has this been confirmed yet?)

No, this is not confirmed as current bilateral does not allow this.



from star dust....
User currently offlineTKfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7939 times:



Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
MUC-BOM (has this been confirmed yet?)
MUC-EWR upgrade from Private Air



Quoting BlrBird (Reply 4):

afaik, muc-ewr goes daily, 333
muc-bom 4weekly, 343


the bilateral should not be a problem as Air India is due to join *A


User currently offlineBlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7768 times:



Quoting TKfan (Reply 5):
muc-bom 4weekly, 343
the bilateral should not be a problem as Air India is due to join *A

Do you mean to say they are going to use AI rights on this route?



from star dust....
User currently offlineCol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2116 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7703 times:



Quoting YLWbased (Reply 1):
Tianjin and Nanjing is the two biggest cities near to Beijing and Shanghai.

Tianjin I can see, what about Suzhou?


User currently offlineCPH757 From Denmark, joined Sep 2005, 684 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7622 times:



Quoting Col (Reply 7):
Tianjin I can see, what about Suzhou?

Suzhou doesn't have an airport, but it's not far away from NKG. However pretty doubtful that LH would send a plane to NKG which isn't exactly an industrial or financial center, and the Asian international connections are very limited, I don't know if you go go anywhere but HKG?. HGH is more likely as it is close to manufacturing districts in Zhejiang province and the port of Ningbo. However still very unlikely in my opinion - still only a couple of hours away from PVG.

What "near" means is the good question. In China distance terms, WUH is not that far away from Shanghai, seems more likely.

Regarding Beijing, Tianjin is close. Really close, especially considering the public transportation improvements made in relation to the Olympic Games. Other options are Dalian or Qingdao.

I believe that the only one of these airport standing a chance would be WUH...If they would open an international route close to other airports currently served, they should definitely go SZX even though they are already in CAN and HKG.



Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7583 times:



Quoting CPH757 (Reply 8):
Beijing, Tianjin is close. Really close

OK, in Km distance yes, but the horrendous traffic situation makes a trip from TSN city to PEK airport a journey of around 3+ hours, then, if you have an international flight, you must be 2-3 hours prior to the flight at the airport, so resumee, you have to calculate 6-7 hours to go by car from TSN city to PEK airport prior to your flight.

Then, if you have a longhaul flight to FRA, + around 11 hours, and as in my case, +12 hours to GRU, +3 to VVI and +0:45 to CBB. If I could take a TSN/FRA/TSN conex I certainly would prefer it to PEK. Not calculated are waiting times between flights.

To those not familiar with TSN: It is a major industrial center in China with proximity to one of the major ports of China, Xingang. Xingang deals with most North-China export shipments.


User currently offlineLHBSL From Switzerland, joined Mar 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7528 times:



Quoting Cyba (Reply 3):
Could these new destinations be served as tag-ons to existing services to either PEK or PVG?

AFAIK one of the two wil be a tag-on with PVG


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7478 times:



Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
MUC-EWR upgrade from Private Air



Quoting TKfan (Reply 5):
afaik, muc-ewr goes daily, 333

That flight is already operating, but for a few weeks this winter it'll be reduced to 5x/week.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineCPH757 From Denmark, joined Sep 2005, 684 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7446 times:



Quoting 123 (Reply 9):
OK, in Km distance yes, but the horrendous traffic situation makes a trip from TSN city to PEK airport a journey of around 3+ hours, then, if you have an international flight, you must be 2-3 hours prior to the flight at the airport, so resumee, you have to calculate 6-7 hours to go by car from TSN city to PEK airport prior to your flight.

Sure, the traffic can be horrible, but notice that I mention the upcoming improvements in connection to the Olympic Games. A 300 km/h fast speed train between Beijing and Tianjin is supposed to be inaugurated before the Games, and from Beijing another expressway and a lightrail system to the airport will be opened. With 120 km between Beijing and Tianjin, this will improve the travel time dramatically between the two cities within the next year.

I'm not sure whether there is a market for this particular route, unless LH need to upgrade PEK heavily anyway. That's one of the big advantages with opening in China. All the big cities have very frequent and comprehensive domestic services, making them attractive for transferring.



Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7436 times:



Quoting CPH757 (Reply 12):
A 300 km/h fast speed train between Beijing and Tianjin is supposed to be inaugurated before the Games, and from Beijing another expressway and a lightrail system to the airport will be opened

Thanks, I was not aware of that.


User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7437 times:



Quoting LHBSL (Reply 10):
AFAIK one of the two wil be a tag-on with PVG

LH flies
FRA-PVG-MNL
MUC-PVG

during the winter. The second FRA-PVG does not operate anymore. Does anybody know why?

This means a tag on would only be possible on the MUC flight, the second FRA comes back or MNL would have to be a tag on the Guangzhou flight as in the past. How many hours does the plane stand around in PVG??



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineLHBSL From Switzerland, joined Mar 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7398 times:



Quoting LH506 (Reply 14):
The second FRA-PVG does not operate anymore. Does anybody know why?

They didn't got a slot at a reasonable time.


User currently offlineCPH757 From Denmark, joined Sep 2005, 684 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7342 times:



Quoting LHBSL (Reply 15):
They didn't got a slot at a reasonable time.

Is PVG really slot constrained, or are we talking "political slots"?



Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7254 times:



Quoting LH506 (Reply 14):
LH flies
FRA-PVG-MNL
MUC-PVG

during the winter. The second FRA-PVG does not operate anymore. Does anybody know why?

This means a tag on would only be possible on the MUC flight, the second FRA comes back or MNL would have to be a tag on the Guangzhou flight as in the past. How many hours does the plane stand around in PVG??

LH went back to doing MNL via CAN after only a short period of time in PVG.

//Alex



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineBrisseDK From Denmark, joined Nov 2007, 383 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7060 times:



Quoting CityAirline (Reply 17):
LH went back to doing MNL via CAN after only a short period of time in PVG.

That is correct. I'm booked on LH788 26th January and LH789 10th February, and we have a 1h15m stop-over in CAN both ways.

Regards,
BJ



Frequent flyer based in CPH - mostly heading to: OSL, HEL, KEF, FAE and EWR
User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6772 times:



Quoting BrisseDK (Reply 18):
That is correct. I'm booked on LH788 26th January and LH789 10th February, and we have a 1h15m stop-over in CAN both ways.

If you're lucky, you'll get to fly one of the 346s with the newly installed PTVs.  Wink
On a side note, I'm booked to MNL on January 24th (February 15th), although on LH, CX and KL.

//Alex



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineLp0815 From Singapore, joined Oct 2005, 219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6644 times:

My money is on NKG and SHE;
Could see NKG non-stop and SHE tagged-on to either a Japan-flight or a Korea-Flight


LH732/733 FRA-PVG-FRA was only additional capacity offer during summer sched. and is discontinued ever since winther sched.
MNL is being served via CAN and as far as I know will be discontinued with the beginning of summer sched.



Time waits for nobody
User currently offlineGogojet From China, joined Jul 2007, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6608 times:

I relatively high speed rail link is already in operation between Beijing and Tianjin. It takes 1 hour 15 min and costs only 42 RMB (3.8EUR) one way. Compare that to the cost of travelling between Frankfurt and Cologne these days!! I would have thought that it would have been better to push for more frequency to Beijing.

Regarding Tianjin Airport, try this link:

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/tianjinbinhai/


User currently offlineLp0815 From Singapore, joined Oct 2005, 219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6445 times:

TSN: option for LH Cargo? Either them direct or via their Chinese subsidiary Jade International?


Time waits for nobody
User currently offlineGhillier From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6185 times:

What about Dalian ? City of 6 million on the Yellow Sea with huge manufacturing and tourist industry.

User currently offlineLp0815 From Singapore, joined Oct 2005, 219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6070 times:

DLC could be an option, too.
Somehow I expect it to be SHE and NKG, though; due proximity to PVG and PEK;
5/7 NKG and 3/7 SHE (tagged on to PUS-MUC, maybe? or additional SHE-ICN-MUC?)
Or tag SHE onto the NGO-FRA flight;



Time waits for nobody
25 LH506 : Why will MNL be discontinued?
26 Maxfly : The MNL flight via CAN will still be there according to LH's timetable for summer 08. And as for new routes for 08, don't forget DUS-MIA 6/w with A343
27 Jfidler : I flew this last week FRA-CAN-MNL and back. No PTVs on the A346s I was on. I've done this flight a few times, and until I flew it, I never understood
28 Stylo777 : eventhough it is not close to PVG or even PEK I would also consider CTU / Chengdu in this 'race'. It is a 11-million city with a big industry. compani
29 DavidByrne : What? AY's long-haul business is almost entirely based on connections through HEL, which for flights to the Far East is perfectly situated for many d
30 A342 : Forgot to ask, what's your source?
31 Stylo777 : if you flying to Northern Europe than YES, it is good located, but this covers only (in my eyes) the Scandinavian countries and some Eastern European
32 BCA2005 : Yes, but you forget to realise that even though HEL may be further from most points in Europe in comparison to FRA, it is that much closer to Asia. T
33 Kogge : As user LP0815 mentioned this sounds more as if we are talking about LH Cargo. For them Tianjin and Nanjing might be interesting destinations (or bett
34 DavidByrne : As I suggested, check the Great Circle mapper and you'll see that HEL is only a minor deviation off the best route for a large area of Europe, not ju
35 Qazar : Is there a particular reason why the criteria must include cities near Beijing and Shangahi? I know LH has expressed interest in opening several citie
36 Post contains images Andaman : As said here, don't believe your eyes, check the Great Circle Map It even tells that HEL is closer to SYD than any other hub in EU, against all odds.
37 Lp0815 : OK, TSN is a definite cargo-only option for now; new pax destination will NOT be TSN (makes SHE more likely); Would even think that TSN for now is mo
38 TKfan : Dont know when Air India enters *A, but its out of the schedules for S08 of LH out of FRA and MUC. And there are also no new destinations in China be
39 DavidByrne : I travelled LHR-MNL on EK back in about 1995 - presumably they've operated the route consistently since then? At that time, there were two routes - D
40 Lp0815 : Thanks for pointing that out, I stand corrected; heard that it had to do with decreasing yields and increased competition and EK was mentioned, so I
41 TKfan : I know, everything might be changed, as of now there are only those three; if you count HKG, four cities in China being served by LH. MUC-SIN is in t
42 Viscount724 : One quick example: LHR-HEL-PEK 4415 nm. LHR-FRA-PEK 4571 nm.
43 Xiaotung : PVG has been operating beyond its limit already. The currently terminal opened in 1999. I would think LH giving up PVG slots is to make room for LX w
44 Lp0815 : Thanks! Do you have the timings for this flight and the flight number?
45 LHBSL : Now I got more precise information: Nanjing: FRA-NKG 5/7 with A340-300 from 31.Mars Shenyang: MUC-(ICN)-SHE 3/7 with A340-300 from 8.June
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