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Qantas Safety Record  
User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1581 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9401 times:

QANTAS has never had a fatal jet aircraft accident in its lifetime or a hull loss (dont know about that 743). Why is QANTAS this lucky when you compare it to airlines like AA and UA (Yes they carry more passengers but they still have more fatalities per 1000000 passengers)?. Is it there safety standars or is it just pure luck?

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9381 times:

For most of QF's history they were a very small carrier in comparison to the other carriers you mention and many other major airlines. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

Other carriers much bigger than QF also have excellent safety records. For example, BA hasn't had a fatal accident in over 30 years apart from the fire involving the 737-200 of their British Airtours subsidiary at MAN in 1985.


User currently offlineBraybuddy From India, joined Aug 2004, 5795 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9383 times:

Obviously there must be a high standard of safety in Qantas, like most major airlines, I assume, but no doubt luck plays a part too. This one could have been nasty:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...8/1090089033717.html?from=storylhs

Qantas: great airline, great staff and a CLASSIC livery!  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9364 times:

Well, landing a 744 on a golf course in Thailand (23rd Sept 1999) and all 407 on board walk away, that's at least what I would call a lucky day.

Probably as lucky as a "hole in one"?

Just imagine that people had been out playing golf! Or if there had been a fire. I don't know about Thailand, but in my part of the world the golf course fire brigades are not among the fastest in the world.

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/qf1/10.shtml

But you are right, the Qantas safety record isn't among the worst in this world. I would happyly fly them any day.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9344 times:

Geography may play a small part in the safety record. Australia is a long way from most other major cities requiring Qantas to fly alot more long haul routes than, say, domestic US carriers. Takeoff and landing are the most dangerous parts of any flight so all the long hauls should statistically be safer.

But, Qantas does seem to have many great people working for them and maintenance people all over the world from 99% of airlines do great work. Keep up the good work all of you.


User currently offlineBirdseed From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9339 times:

Qantas is a truly great airline; they have exceptional standards.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 2):
but no doubt luck plays a part too.

Or grace.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9322 times:
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I thought a Constellation - or a Super Connie - crashed back in about 1960, VH-EAC, in Mauritius, maybe.

I could be wrong.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 906 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9307 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3):
Well, landing a 744 on a golf course in Thailand (23rd Sept 1999) and all 407 on board walk away, that's at least what I would call a lucky day.

This was not a case of landing on a golf court, but a case of a golf court being on an airport. I remember taxying in a B747 right next to a bunch of playing golfers on Bangkok Airport. From my vantage point, the golfers looked way too close to the aircraft from the perspective of any reasonable safety standards. I think our wing was hanging above their heads.

I wonder how many airplanes have suffered golfball strikes or golfball ingestion at Bangkok Airport.

[Edited 2007-12-03 17:04:45]

User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9268 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
I thought a Constellation - or a Super Connie - crashed back in about 1960, VH-EAC, in Mauritius, maybe.

I could be wrong.

mariner

Officially, Qantas claim they've never lost a jet aircraft (a Constellation of course, not being a jet). All up, they've had ten fatal accidents, the last in 1951, with the total loss of 78 souls.

Since then, the safety record has been exemplary, and there's no doubt they're amongst the safest airlines in the world (although I remember reading ages ago that it would take Qantas about 130 years to fly as much as United does in one year!)



-
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5092 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9259 times:

I don't think they have any fatal accidents so far just like FinnAir.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9249 times:
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Quoting TG992 (Reply 8):
(a Constellation of course, not being a jet

My mistake. I missed the limitation to "jet" in the opening post.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9224 times:



Quoting JAL (Reply 9):
it would take Qantas about 130 years to fly as much as United does in one year!)



That may have applied before QF starting flying domestically, but not sure. The were international only until a few years ago.



B 727-44/200 732/3/4/8/9 767-3 742/3/4, 772/3, A319/20/21 332/333 342/3 , DC3/4/10, F28/50/100, ATR72
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9217 times:

Lets not forget that Qantas also doesn't have to contend with things like Winter Operations.
How often would a QF 737 Need to be de-iced? Because its a daily event, or several times a day even for say, UA at DEN /ORD or SAS at ARN, and NW's 747s at MSP etc.

Also QF flies in relatively empty skies.

So you can see a lot of the major risk factors... like iced problems during take off and landing,
highly congested airports,
Air Traffic Control Errors in heavily used airspace etc are
minimual influence for Qantas.

I mean the majority of the Qantas fleet have probably never even seen de-icing fluild. 747's at LAX hardly need it.
I'm thinking a very odd day at Frankfurt would be about it. the A330s may see a day or two in PEK, and
the 767s never at all, and the odd 737 that gets sent across to Queenstown in New Zealand.

So I think that's vastly improved their odds.


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9171 times:



Quoting Scipio (Reply 7):
This was not a case of landing on a golf court, but a case of a golf court being on an airport. I remember taxying in a B747 right next to a bunch of playing golfers on Bangkok Airport.

Well, after crossing the golf course they also made it onto a public road. Have a look at http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/qf1/photo.shtml

Don't tell me that Qantas was proud of that "landing". And don't tell me that it was a fault of the golf glub.

Luckily everybody walked away, and they "landed" within walking distance from the airport. The accident wasn't categorized as a navigation fault.

Quoting JAL (Reply 9):
I don't think they have any fatal accidents so far just like FinnAir.

Finnair DC-3s fell from the sky like a hailstorm in the 60'es killing several dozen people. That's a long time ago, and I flew with them with great pleasure earlier this year.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9167 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 12):
I mean the majority of the Qantas fleet have probably never even seen de-icing fluild. 747's at LAX hardly need it. I'm thinking a very odd day at Frankfurt would be about it. the A330s may see a day or two in PEK, and the 767s never at all, and the odd 737 that gets sent across to Queenstown in New Zealand.

Apart from FRA, LHR usually has a few days every winter that require de-icing. And I expect one or two QF 744s might have encountered some de-icing fluid at JFK this past weekend.
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/89770


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9164 times:



Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 13):
Well, after crossing the golf course they also made it onto a public road. Have a look at http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/qf1/photo.shtml

Don't tell me that Qantas was proud of that "landing". And don't tell me that it was a fault of the golf glub.

Luckily everybody walked away, and they "landed" within walking distance from the airport. The accident wasn't categorized as a navigation fault.

Yes but that is one airport overun with no fatalities. How many of these happen every year? IB A346 springs to mind as well as AF A340 etc so it is really a minor incident.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9154 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
Apart from FRA, LHR usually has a few days every winter that require de-icing. And I expect one or two QF 744s might have encountered some de-icing fluid at JFK this past weekend.

Aswell as 744's at YVR


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5764 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9015 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
I thought a Constellation - or a Super Connie - crashed back in about 1960, VH-EAC, in Mauritius, maybe.

Sure did. 24/8/1960 VH-EAC, L1049G at Plaisance, Mauritius. The aircraft overran the runway during an aborted takeoff attempt. But there were NO fatalities. See http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...960®=VH-EAC&airline=Qantas+Airways for details.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8975 times:
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Quoting Gemuser (Reply 17):
But there were NO fatalities

It was a hull loss, though:

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/constellation/h2vheac2.htm

Which is what I picked up on in the OP, while missing "jet".

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5764 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8942 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):

It was a hull loss, though:

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/constellation/h2vheac2.htm

Which is what I picked up on in the OP, while missing "jet".

It certainly was!!!
But the OP did say "fatal, jet aircraft accident"  Smile
Looking at the photos it's amazing that all 50 POB walked away.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8874 times:
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Quoting Gemuser (Reply 19):
But the OP did say "fatal, jet aircraft accident" Ã%u201A 

Yes, as I've said twice now, "jet" went over my head.  Smile

But he also said:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
or a hull loss

I picked up on "a hull loss".

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8813 times:

Possibly the best mock on Qantas and it safety record, came from Spike Milligna the well known misprint in his famous contributions in 1971 to the ABC news read by Rod McNeil. It got Milligan banned from the ABC for quite a while. Qantas had won "the prestigious Cumberbatch Trophy" for its safety record. As cited in:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11561&page=2

The news went as follows:

".ROD McNEIL: The news in brief. The Prime Minister Mr McMahon arrived back . .in Australia today after his overseas tour, he told newsmen at Sydney Airport . .that he could not have had more valuable discussions with both President . .Nixon and the British Prime Minister Mr Heath...

SPIKE MILLIGAN: What about Spike Milligan?

ROD McNEIL: But he refused to give details of the discussions before he . .had spoken in the house.

SPIKE MILLIGAN: What about Spike Milligan?

ROD McNEIL: Mr McMahon also refused to comment when asked about criticism . .of him by two former Ministers, Mr Gorton and Mr Killen.

SPIKE MILLIGAN: And Spike Milligan.

ROD McNEIL: The Prime Minister was met at the airport by his two children...

SPIKE MILLIGAN: And Spike Milligan.

ROD McNEIL: ...and members of the Cabinet, including the Treasurer Mr Sneddon . .and Spike Milligan.

Australia's national international airline Qantas . .has been awarded a trophy by the British Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators . .for its safety record...

SPIKE MILLIGAN: And 33 crashes.

ROD McNEIL: Qantas is the second Australian airline to win the um cumber . .batch trophy. TAA won it in 1958.

The Australian Post Office is doing . .good business in the United (laugh), in the United States

SPIKE MILLIGAN: Wo ho.

ROD McNEIL: An agent for the Post Office in New York says sales of stamps . .to collectors could bring in $200,000 in the first year of business.

The . .South Australian Attorney-General Mr King has warned that people in the . .state who stock or sell a New South Wales publication Search Light run the . .risk of prosecution. Mr King said the three issues of the publication that . .he had seen were obviously very offensive to a great many people. Mr King . .was speaking in the South Australian Parliament.

SPIKE MILLIGAN: Where there was nobody listening.

ROD McNEIL: More news in one hour.

SPIKE MILLIGAN: You'll never make it."

. .Ahh, Mr Milligna, the well-known typing error, how sadly you will be missed. Batty as a fruitcake of course..


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8805 times:

As Pam Ann put it, "tic-tock..."  Wink

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5764 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8787 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):

I picked up on "a hull loss".

mariner

And I didn't  embarrassed 

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2396 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8605 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 12):

I mean the majority of the Qantas fleet have probably never even seen de-icing fluild. 747's at LAX hardly need it.
I'm thinking a very odd day at Frankfurt would be about it. the A330s may see a day or two in PEK, and
the 767s never at all, and the odd 737 that gets sent across to Queenstown in New Zealand.

I have personally been deiced in a 767 in Christchurch, the fleet has also been deiced in Melbourne, Narita and Sapporo over the last year.


25 ECONOMICS : didn't QF have an incident at ROM about 10 years ago, when a 743 lost RHS wheels as turning at end of runway to take off ? (can't seem to find any pho
26 Curmudgeon : 1.QF did have a 747-300 main gear strut fail during line-up, but it would be strtching a long bow to call that an accident. 2. The BKK accident was a
27 ECONOMICS : yes, but I called it an incident. Then again, what if it had happened on landing !!! Many QF staff used to bag other airlines, but went quiet after t
28 CV990 : Hi! QANTAS also lost an Avro Lancastrian back to the 40's, VH-EAS...but once again no casualties!!! The plane burned out! Regards
29 Mandala499 : QF has good standards, the number of accidents/incidents speaks for itself... however, BKK was a gentle and wet reminder not to get sloppy. Lucky? Yes
30 QF772 : As well as the less crowded skies and milder weather conditions I think it also reflects on Australia's high safety standards that not only Qantas but
31 FlyingAY : Yep, they lost 2 DC-3s, but I still wouldn't call that a hail storm. One in 1961 and the other one in 1963. But they have never lost a jet either.
32 CHRISBA777ER : I've always thought BA were pretty much the safest - no fatal accident for more than 30 years (I dont count the BA Airtours 732, Loganair Shorts 360 o
33 AirNewZealand : Interesting discussion folks. Could someone confirm for me this statement... On a recent flight i was operating...the Captain stated QF has the highes
34 CHRISBA777ER : That BKK Golf Course QF incident always amuses me - Imagine you are just about to crack a 250 yard drive down the fairway of the 8th - a workmanlike P
35 Post contains links Aviateur : QF is a relatively small carrier, and a high percentage of its flights are long-haul (fewer takeoffs and landings, during which most accidents occur).
36 Post contains links GeorgeJetson : More about this at: http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/constellation/vh-eac2.htm
37 Aussie747 : not as small as you think. 221 Aircraft in its group fleet with only around 55 aircraft used internationally
38 Viscount724 : But in terms of the safety record discussion, the shorthaul domestic operations are a relatively recent development in comparison with major US airli
39 BlueSkys : LOL! that would be a good story, although somehow I doubt there was one golfer on the course during the heavy rainstorm and the pitch blackness.... A
40 StealthZ : Not exactly, the domestic carrier absorbed into Qantas (TAA/Australian) had similar exemplary record as did it's major competitor. The safety culture
41 Airnewzealand : -BUT- in this example, wouldnt we be MORE at risk when we fly into these airports with snow covered runways/weather as we do not have "more" expoerie
42 AFGMEL : If you're going to use WX as the reason other carriers don't have such a exemplary record, then an apples to apples should be drawn by withdrawing fat
43 Viscount724 : The much lower density of air traffic in Australia is another factor. Less risk of mid-air collision which was the cause of several major fatal accid
44 Prebennorholm : Dear FlyingAY, you don't think that two is a hailstorm? I was exaggerating a bit. It has happened before, and it is likely happen again. Finnair is t
45 AFGMEL : Hmm, I suppose, but if we take it from say 1970 onwards, midairs are very rare indeed. Hardly statistically significant. Airports like SYD are almost
46 Qantas787 : I don't recall the exact details, but a few years ago I believe a QF aircraft enroute OZ-ASIA encountered severe turbulence and diverted to DRW. A lad
47 Viscount724 : Unfortunately that's not correct. Using your 1970 onwards time frame, approximately 60 airliners have been involved in midair collisions. Not all wer
48 Post contains links AFGMEL : Well I did a check of midairs since 1970. Mind you, it was quick and nasty, but this is the list that I have come up with. I still maintain that it's
49 Post contains images UncleBuck : exactly what I came here to post
50 AFGMEL : Tick-Tock applies to any airline. I remember people saying the same thing more than ten years ago. Eventually if something happens then they can be sm
51 Viscount724 : I don't quite get your point re comparing the list of midairs to QF's safety record since QF hasn't had any midairs. As far as being statistically in
52 Post contains images SSTsomeday : In that case, Kudos to Qantas' marketing, because I understood that they had never had a fatality. In fact, I believed Dustin Hoffman in "Rainman" wh
53 UncleBuck : we were more talking about how funny Pam Ann is, not so much saying it's going to happen.
54 AFGMEL : Ok, that was in response to this : I was saying that it is statistically insignificant if we are going to compare airlines. Look at the list, airline
55 Viscount724 : As someone else mentioned, another major factor for most of QF's history before they acquired domestic routes was the extreme longhaul nature of thei
56 Jbernie : It doesn't matter how many flights you fly or where, each take off / flight / landing has the same probability as any other. If you fly for as many ye
57 Post contains images TruemanQLD : QANTAS were the only airline not to remove that from the movie in IFE But from what I remember the majority of very fatal (ie more than 50% of px die
58 Viscount724 : But for much of QF's history, especially before they acquired domestic routes, their average nonstop flight sectors were much longer than most other
59 Airbusted : If Qantas ha wanted to preserve their record by not having had a hull loss with the bkk overrun then they would insist to repair the aircraft regardle
60 TruemanQLD : I did hear that for the same cost of repairing it they could have got a new one (though I may be wrong). But I'm sure even though they would have bou
61 QantasHeavy : A mate of mine flies 744s for Qantas and said the plane (think he called it "OJH") that over-ran in BKK is still in service but flies weird. Said it i
62 747srule : It might be because most of their fleet is usually PARKED at LAX!!! Just kidding, but I have seen at least 4 of QF's 744's sitting at the maintenance
63 VHXLR8 : While many on this thread have made light of the fact that QF flies in less congested airspace; this is true, however: Internationally, QF flies in an
64 TruemanQLD : Wow... I never knew that but I guess it is... also alot of traffic going from AVV/MEL to regional airports along the route must make headaches for AT
65 AverageUser : Somehow, I would have expected a bit more analysis on these accidents. The "hailstrom" was two fatal Finnair (then known as "Aero") DC-3 accidents in
66 ImperialEagle : No matter what measure one uses to judge the saftey record of Qantas, it remains quite extraordinary that they have operated aircraft with notably unr
67 Post contains images Baroque : Yep, if the airspace is so free of planes, why was my flight on Friday down to Mel from Syd slowed over Maroubra for another plane and then it appear
68 Airbusted : i remember an article somewhere saying that sydney is known for windshear and it is also in the top 12 or 15 busiest airports in the world
69 Viscount724 : However during the 11 years (1961-72) UA operated their 20 Caravelles, they wrote off 13 other aircraft in accidents, 7 of them involving fatalities.
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