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Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation  
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2486 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

Airtran is well known for finding a bargain and making money. Why haven't they gone the route of Frontier and picked up a q400 operation? These aircraft can be parked remotely and do not require individual gates, which would really benefit ATL due to the lack of gates. They burn a 1/3 amount of fuel compared to a 50 seat RJ, but carry 74 passengers. They are about half the price of a 737. They are fast and quiet. Most of all, compare the UA/F9 scenario in DEN to DL/FL in ATL. Both majors dominate small to midsized cities in their area, but the Southeast is so much more densely populated, it is ripe for competition.

I think both F9 and FL could do very well with a prop operation.

Any thoughts?

[Edited 2007-12-06 17:42:18]

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 924 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

It seems like this would really add to congestion at ATL!

User currently offlineCumulonimbus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3952 times:



Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
They are about half the price of a 737. They are fast and quiet. Most of all, compare the UA/F9 scenario in DEN to DL/FL in ATL. Both majors dominate small to midsized cities in their area, but the Southeast is so much more densely populated, it is ripe for competition.

I don't think that is where FL would benefit from the prop operation. I Think FL if they ever decide to try ATRs or Q400s BWI would be the place. Lots of Mid sized citys such as White Plains and Syracuse seem realistic routes for Props and FL.


Mike


User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

Yeah, the daily landing gear collapse on a FL Q400 would do the company a lot of good!  duck 

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
These aircraft can be parked remotely and do not require individual gates, which would really benefit ATL due to the lack of gates.

The problem with ATL is that there really isn't anywhere to remotely park those aircraft:


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Not to mention bringing in the hassle of buses to the already overcrowded ramp area.



"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3822 times:



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 1):
It seems like this would really add to congestion at ATL!

Runway wise, I thought ATL was ok now that they have the new runway, but gates are a problem.

Quoting Cumulonimbus (Reply 2):
I don't think that is where FL would benefit from the prop operation. I Think FL if they ever decide to try ATRs or Q400s BWI would be the place. Lots of Mid sized citys such as White Plains and Syracuse seem realistic routes for Props and FL.

Good idea.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):
Yeah, the daily landing gear collapse on a FL Q400 would do the company a lot of good!

Wasn't that an isolated issue with the landing gear manufacturer? I thought they had identified the problem to fix (if it hasn't been fixed already).

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):
Not to mention bringing in the hassle of buses to the already overcrowded ramp area.

Doesn't ASA get 2 or 3 rjs or ATRs per gate on the other side of C? Might be a good trade off if there is the room.


User currently offlineFalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

Actually AirTran does have some limited experience in turboprop operations through what was a limited code-share with Comair out of Orlando just prior to the ValuJet merger in 1997 and billed as the AirTran Florida Connection. Considering its short-lived foray into CRJ operations, I'm not sure I'd hold my breath in seeing an AirTran turboprop, although in this business, anything is certainly possible.


My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3647 times:

I think it will be interesting to see how things work out for Frontier. These new Q's are more like a jet than these older generation props. If the economics and performance are as good as they say, some of the majors might consider them over 50 seat RJs on short hops.

http://www.keloland.com/videoarchive...index.cfm?VideoFile=120507frontier


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3319 times:

Just realized there were duplicate threads on this topic... here is my post from the other one ( so that one can get deleted)

The one place i think they could do well with the q400 is in florida. WN B6 and FL are each jockeying for position and right now the smallest aircraft is the E190. Only WN does intra-FLA flying. BWI doesnt have the mass, or enough open cities for a connecting q400 operation. ATL just doesnt have the gates.

Heres for the Intra-FLA

MCO to:
JAX TLH PFN VPS PNS EYW RSW APF MIA FLL PBI

TPA to:
PNS VPS PFN TLH DAB MLB EYW MIA FLL PBI

Other:
JAX-PBI
DAB-FLL
PBI-TLH
PNS-RSW

Lower fares + connecting traffic would really solidify FL as they key airline in Florida. Even though some routes have service on DL or WN, the q400 is the right plane for the competition and will allow for more cities to overfly ATL with the connections being available in FLA.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3273 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7):
Lower fares + connecting traffic would really solidify FL as they key airline in Florida. Even though some routes have service on DL or WN, the q400 is the right plane for the competition and will allow for more cities to overfly ATL with the connections being available in FLA.

No offense to your idea, but that sounds like a recipe for disaster. The name of the game right now is revenue and undercutting the competition - when it is WN is not going to generate decent returns. The Q400 against WN would not be a successful venture.

As said, BWI doesn't have enough options, nor does it add much value over connections in ATL in the sense of a Q400 operation.

With the way that FL markets themselves and utilizes the 717's, the need for a Q400 operation at this point in time is minimal.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3235 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
The Q400 against WN would not be a successful venture.

But most of the intra-florida routes that are proposed are not flown by WN.

With that said, I don't see FL getting into the turboprop business anytime soon. Maybe someday when they have a lot more gates in ATL, but that's a long way away.


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3204 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7):
the q400 is the right plane for the competition and will allow for more cities to overfly ATL with the connections being available in FLA.

No doubt about it.

The costs that say DL or AA have flying 737s or RJs intra Florida could be cut to shreads by the Q400. Just a guess, but I'd bet the CASM would be close to half that of a 737 on a short Florida hop. The flight times for routes under 400 miles are virtually the same. FL could cut the fares in a massive way, make money, and build customers for other longer flights.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3204 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
The Q400 against WN would not be a successful venture.

As stated only a few of those are against WN, but could be supported via connections from places like BMI, ROC, PWM, DAY, CAK, FNT, MEM etc

I think florida is the only place it could be sucessful for them until they get more gate space at ATL (not for a while).

I also dont think this is something FL would do in house, contract it to pinnacle or someone, heck maybe they could even get gulfstream to do it since they already have that kind of network. That netowrk would leapfrog them ahead of WN, B6 and DL as they #1 florida airline at least in terms of routes and access.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

FL and F9 have differing business plans. F9 also generally charger higher fares than FL, so a turbo prop operation would be more viable.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2850 times:



Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):

The problem with ATL is that there really isn't anywhere to remotely park those aircraft:

The ramp in front of the the former NW maintenance hangar.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):


Not to mention bringing in the hassle of buses to the already overcrowded ramp area.

They could run them from the end of C. That end of C was originally where Eastern Metro Express operated out of. There was a waiting area at the bottom of the stairs and escalators that are blocked off. Right now, they are using that area as offices. Run the buses out of the area in between C-1A and C-4.


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