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New Tri Jet Please?  
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9743 times:

I miss those 3 holers. Surely if the 340 needs 4 then they could do a version with more powerful engines that only requires three. It would be a departure for Airbus and I know in a few years all we will have is 787s and A350s, please, a 3 engined version of a four engined offering economy.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2951 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9715 times:
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The literally is no point anymore...

3 engines requires special engineering, are harder to inspect and have weight/drag issues.

The MD-11 required a very expensive to manufacture "banjo" casting for the tail engine which also added greatly to the weight of the aircraft, an the L1011's s-duct, though simple does cause lower efficiency than a wing mounted engine, makes the aft fuselage less aerodynamic, etc etc...

Also with engines now at 115,000lbs thrust, there isn't a power need for 3 engines anymore, the 777-300ER is far larger than any tri-jet MD even conceived and does it on 2 engines.

the A340 doesn't NEED 4, it has 4 for what were at the time (late 1980s) economic and operational reasons. There are some reasons a 4 engine jet might be used today (size ala 380 being the biggest, but also things like engine out performance), but there just isn't a reason for 3 anymore with the extra engineering headaches and accessibility issues..



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9680 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
It would be a departure for Airbus

I remember reading a paper 15 years ago about the trijet, and Airbus clearly thought about it as the worst solution. They then said: "You either have to go for a twin or a quad."

And with todays engines, its more like: You either have to go for a twin or... a twin. Except for VLA such as the A380.

[Edited 2007-12-07 14:33:52]

User currently offlineHOOB747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9641 times:

The tri-jets are probably a relic of the past, but one can't deny their beauty or distinctiveness. Enjoy them while you can. My first flight as a grown up (14 year old) was on a TWA L-1011 St. Louis to Los Angeles. Awesome.


747 Number One Fan from U.S.A
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9658 times:

Unfortunaetly we won´t see any tri-holers anymore I believe. They have not proven to be economical better then 4 engines. I wish we could see another DC-10!  

I am with you Orion737!  Smile

[Edited 2007-12-07 14:41:08]

User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9608 times:



Quoting HOOB747 (Reply 3):
but one can't deny their beauty or distinctiveness.

Indeed. I have to admit that I'm still pretty much "in love" with one of them... If that is possible  smirk 

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 4):
I wish we could see another DC-10!

That would be great.  yes 


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9606 times:

Thats nice to know your with me, I get lonely you know. least you have the MD11 to feast on Iin Finland, for now at least. I wish they would do an A340 with three engines, would be a saving for airlines?

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9566 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
I wish they would do an A340 with three engines, would be a saving for airlines?

An A340 with 3 engines would climb slower than a goose!



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9564 times:



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 5):
That would be great.

Definitely! I was so stupid in 2005 that I did not go for a 3 day AMS-MEM-AMS trip on the DC-10. One of the very few things I regret in life so far.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
Thats nice to know your with me, I get lonely you know. least you have the MD11 to feast on Iin Finland, for now at least.

Yes but also not so long anymore. I will go for one next year! It is a must.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
I wish they would do an A340 with three engines, would be a saving for airlines?

BA is known for using only 3 of their 4 B747 engines  duck 

BTW:

OHLHD = DC-10  Smile


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User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9519 times:

You are a man of good taste. Im hoping Finnair might keep the MD11 for charter IT flights when they are phased out from scheduled services, they would be more appropriate than the 757 for the longer holiday flights.

User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9510 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 9):

They will be phased out. Some are sold to Aeroflot already. The last one is to leave in 2009.They will be converted to freighters. The 757 will stay. Believe me, drunk finns do not care about their seat pitch. Big grin

It is about time to leave office now. A syrian 747SP is waiting for me. This time I won´t regret it.  Smile


User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9507 times:



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 8):
BA is known for using only 3 of their 4 B747 engines

Yes, but they lack the true beauty and distinctiveness of a DC-10 or MD-11.  Big grin


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9496 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 9):



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 11):

Since both of you are trihole lovers like I am: Welcome to my RU-List.  Smile


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4264 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9477 times:



Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 1):
The MD-11 required a very expensive to manufacture "banjo" casting for the tail engine which also added greatly to the weight of the aircraft, an the L1011's s-duct, though simple does cause lower efficiency than a wing mounted engine, makes the aft fuselage less aerodynamic, etc etc...

The third engine doesn't necessarily have to be in the tail.
You can imagine three under wing engines, with one engine placed further out on one wing against two closer to the fuselage on the other wing for balance purposes. Of course this would look quite gawky, but you can pure theoretically imagine a 3 engined A-380 or 748 where the third engine is kept for ETOPS issues and on the other hand if there will still be no engines strong enough yet to convert a VLA to a twin.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineHOOB747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9436 times:



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 8):



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 8):
BA is known for using only 3 of their 4 B747 engines

BTW:

OHLHD = DC-10

Haaaaa!!! And shocking tower controllers everywhere! BA flight 268 LAX-LHR; Feb. 20, 2005. Read if you can article in the Wall Street Journal, Sept. 23-24, 2006.



747 Number One Fan from U.S.A
User currently offlineSparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9390 times:

You might see a 3-holer on a future BWB (Blended Wing Body) aircraft. Some concept designs have displayed 3 engines in pods attached above the aircraft/wing body.

[Edited 2007-12-07 15:44:22]


Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9348 times:

Certainly the best looking modern tri-jet.


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User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21092 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9253 times:



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 16):
Certainly the best looking modern tri-jet.

Not quite.

THIS is the best-looking modern trijet:


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Photo © Aldo Bidini



-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9154 times:

heh, how many times has this come up? plz lock thread

User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 9045 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
Not quite.

THIS is the best-looking modern trijet:

They are the same.  Confused


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21092 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9008 times:



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 19):
They are the same.

One has winglets.  Smile

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8902 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Surely if the 340 needs 4 then they could do a version with more powerful engines that only requires three.

For engine out performance...
The A340-2/3 would need 3 engines producing 51,000 lbs of thrust.
The A340-5/6 would need 3 engines producing 90,000 lbs of thrust.

So, with the newer A340's to make them into three holers you're talking GE90's. That would be a HUGE engine to mount and balance.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 7):
An A340 with 3 engines would climb slower than a goose!

Negative. A 3 engine plane will have more installed thrust due to engine out requirements. If all goes well a three hole A340 would climb better than the current models.


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4482 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8862 times:

I think the next trijet when it comes to pax planes would probably be a blended body model. Since the engines would like be mounted above the flight surfaces.


Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8847 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
One has winglets.

 banghead  Didn't see that. You're right, the second one is better.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8837 times:

The L-1011 was superior to all and built beyond its time, I always dreamed of a L-1011 with new RB211 engines and glass cockpit... My favorite jet of all time, miss those days on the TWA and Eastern Tristars when I was a child.


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
25 Post contains images JakeOrion : Might see them again sooner than you think: We shall see... Bah! SparkingWave beat me to it.
26 MIAMIx707 : I still can't get excited about the 787 or the A350 very much Just more twins with the same 'ol configuration Same with the new large jets, what's up
27 OceansWorld : Well, thank you. Cheers.
28 Ph-tvh : That sounds like something only Burt Rutan would come up with.... But like you said: theorerically it can be done. Would be nice to see something tha
29 Post contains links and images Francoflier : Ok, ok, stop crying already, here: View Large View MediumPhoto © David James Clelford [Airplane-Pictures] Don't thank me, anything I can do to h
30 Post contains links NEMA : Covered in many topics here already, take a look at the posts in my thread a while back. A Tri Jet The Size Of The A380? (by NEMA Aug 26 2007 in Tech
31 MAC26000 : God i miss them too. My first flight was 727 from LGA to DCA. Nothing better then watching the 727 on a hot humid day at DCA trying to take off on its
32 Orion737 : how come 4 engines arent yesterdays technology but trijets are??
33 Post contains images UAL747 : Maybe Boeing will pick up on my personal design: INTRODUCING THE 797! UAL
34 Post contains links and images Levg79 : This would look to something similar to this: View Large View MediumPhoto © Anthony Jackson With a tri-jet, it would not be the prettiest sight
35 RJ111 : Because of the impractical design as mentioned. Balance, maintenance and specialist tail design being the problems. A Trent 895 would be adequate. Th
36 Post contains images Access-Air : Yeah, I have to agree, My favourite of the three widebody Tri-Jets was the L-1011 but for soem reason I flew on more DC10s....go figure.... As for th
37 Post contains images AirEMS : Here is my vote for the best looking Tri-jet today!! Ha! -Carl
38 Post contains links and images Aircellist : Yesterday, in another thread, about A & B's sales for the year, Carson - Airbus To Beat Boeing In 2007 (by Scbriml Dec 6 2007 in Civil Aviation) I wro
39 EBJ1248650 : While that would be a three holer by definition, I don't believe it'd be in the same league as the TriStar, DC-10 or MD-11. Thanks for bringing it up
40 EBJ1248650 : A combining of the best features of the 747 and MD-11.
41 Post contains images UAL747 : Yup, 3 GE-90-115B's, a HUGE upward swept wings. 744 style winglets, a blade shaped tail cone/APU ala 777, and of course, double decked! But if that's
42 Shane : I was beyond disappointed when I was rebooked from a MD11 GRU-LAX as Varig crumbled under my nose during my trip to Brazil. They sent me to JFK on the
43 UAL747 : I think that shabby aircraft is still sitting at AFW at the moment, unless things have changed since I drove by there on my way to South Padre Island
44 Rockinflyer : I gotta agree with Malaysia. The L-1011 was the most striking tri-jet ever built. I remember several trips on them with BA, DL, and TW. Does anyone r
45 Post contains images Fwa2500 : even having flown on trijets only about 6 times total (Delta L-1011s and MD-11s), i still love them....my earliest memory of flying was on a L-1011, i
46 Post contains images SeaBosDca : Sacrilege! The big fans are the best thing about today's aircraft. There's nothing quite like a 777-200LR. I better get out... if I stay in this thre
47 Cingularity : Actually, Aviat (the new Russian/Ukrainian aviation consortium) is working on a new Tri-Jet (the A270) that will fit between the 748 and the A388 in t
48 Flighty : At least the beautiful new Dassault Falcon 7X is (still, of course) in production.
49 Post contains links and images FWA2500 : definatly! and its older sibling the 900 is also still widely used....such beautiful planes, Dassault really got the designs right on the Falcons, th
50 Transair737 : I really enjoyed flying into MIA for the first time last month just because of all the Cargo DC-10 and MD-11's. It was a real treat as it is very rare
51 Post contains links and images Flighty : Sharp spotters have snapped this new, private Falcon 7X: View Large View MediumPhoto © Bruno Dellière View Large View MediumPhoto © Weimeng
52 HOOB747 : Absolutely, those engines are breathtaking! And the thrust they produce freaks me out!
53 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : I echo the thoughts of many of my a.net peers, after all, my username speaks for itself. My personal favorite is a toss up between the MD-11 and L-101
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