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Hawaiian's Growth Lies In Asia, Not Isles  
User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

company executives say its interisland service will remain "the core" of Hawaiian operations, that core represents only 25 percent of business. Routes to nine West Coast cities have become Hawaiian's bread-and-butter at 70 percent.

What's left are the routes to Sydney, Papeete, Pago Pago and, beginning in March, to Manila. Those niche markets, now representing only about 5 percent of Hawaiian's $900 million in annual revenue, will expand to include cities in Asia, Europe and the Mainland East Coast

"There's an old joke in the industry that goes, 'If an airline makes money, it orders planes. If it keeps making money it takes delivery of those planes,'" said Richard Aboulafia, vice president of analysis for the Virginia-based aerospace consulting firm Teal Group.

In a conference call with investors Nov. 29, Hawaiian President and CEO Mark Dunkerley essentially said the company can't simply play defense and hope for the best.

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacif...84&b=1197262800^1561243&ana=e_vert

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHugo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3985 times:

I have long believed that HNL should be used as a hub for smaller West Coast cities to MNL and now I am glad that someone at HAL figured it out. I look forward to HAL's MNL service.

User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 649 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

"while the A350s can fly up to 7,935 miles -- meaning nonstop service to other Pacific-Asian destinations as well as Europe via a North American route." (quote from the same article linked in the original post)

Europe via a North American route? I figured they would fly between HNL and Europe nonstop. I was wrong there, HNL-LHR is 7237 miles. The article mentions that the A350 has a range of (about) 7935 miles. That is cutting it close. A stop on the mainland makes sense though, they would be able to tap into the mainland-Europe market to fill seats.

I wonder what North American city they would link with Europe flight(s)? Geographically, ANC would be it. ANC was a major fuel stop on passenger flights between Asia and Europe until the Iron Curtain fell and airlines were given permission to overfly Russia. Other North American cities they may link with Europe? You would think somewhere in the Northwest like SEA or PDX. The Bay Area may work but that market is pretty competitive. To throw out a zinger, how about SMF to Europe? There are a lot of people living in the Central Valley. By the time HA started receiving the A350's, SMF may have the new Terminal B constructed........



I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

I'm surprised Hawaiian hasn't looked at serving YVR or YYC. A few winters ago AC had days with 5 flights YVR-HNL, this year there are only 2!

User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3596 times:



Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
What's left are the routes to Sydney, Papeete, Pago Pago and, beginning in March, to Manila. Those niche markets, now representing only about 5 percent of Hawaiian's $900 million in annual revenue, will expand to include cities in Asia, Europe and the Mainland East Coast

Personally, this appears to be a great move by HA, go where the tourist are and no other carrier serving the market.

Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 2):
Other North American cities they may link with Europe?

Perhaps the second tier cities such as SMF, ONT and even maybe PHX since no one else seems to want to Europe.


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2549 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

Folks, I think the article got it wrong. Our CEO has said on several occasions that the hope (once we get the 350's) is nonstop service to Europe from HNL, with continuing service to Asia and the south Pacific. I think someone in that article is mixing up nautical miles with statue miles. According to the Airbus website the A350-800 has a range of 8300 nm with a full load of passengers, and LHR-HNL is a distance of 6289 nm. There's plenty of range in the aircraft to do that flight. I doubt we'd set up a hub anywhere other than HNL though - it wouldn't be necessary once we get the 350's. Yes, we will continue serving cities up and down the west coast of the US, but hopefully we'll expand beyond that too.

Quoting Multimark (Reply 3):
I'm surprised Hawaiian hasn't looked at serving YVR or YYC. A few winters ago AC had days with 5 flights YVR-HNL, this year there are only 2!

That may come in the future, but in the past it was such a low-yield market that it didn't make sense for us to enter it; AC and other Canadian airlines would just kill us with low fares. Maybe now we can try it with more planes (and less competition), but I don't think it would be our first priority.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3169 times:



Quoting Multimark (Reply 3):
I'm surprised Hawaiian hasn't looked at serving YVR or YYC.

Every US airline that has tried Canada-Hawaii service has failed and dropped the route rather quickly. There have been about 4 or 5 over the years. And I doubt it's very profitable, if at all, for AC either with highly seasonal demand and no high yield business traffic.

Quoting Hugo (Reply 1):
I have long believed that HNL should be used as a hub for smaller West Coast cities to MNL

Except it's much further from most West Coast ponts to MNL via HNL than via gateeways like NRT. Close to 1100 nm further from SEA and PDX for example. That means you probably have to offer lower fares than carriers operating via the North Pacific to offset the longer travel time, so you're carrying the passenger 1000 miles further each way for less revenue. Not the most economic proposition.


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1089 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3151 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Except it's much further from most West Coast ponts to MNL via HNL than via gateeways like NRT. Close to 1100 nm further from SEA and PDX for example. That means you probably have to offer lower fares than carriers operating via the North Pacific to offset the longer travel time, so you're carrying the passenger 1000 miles further each way for less revenue. Not the most economic proposition.

On one hand is that not what Emirates is doing -- connecting cities that do not warrant direct service across the globe through a hub, which while not perfectly ideal, is not an absolutely horrible place to connect? And yes, DXB is better situated than HNL, but it's a fair analogy. HA could connect the SMFs etc. of the world to Asia via HNL since you're talking a single connect on HA rather than a double connect through an American gateway to NRT then on to your destination.



TLH
User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2995 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Every US airline that has tried Canada-Hawaii service has failed and dropped the route rather quickly. There have been about 4 or 5 over the years. And I doubt it's very profitable, if at all, for AC either with highly seasonal demand and no high yield business traffic

Surely it can't be a much different situation from most US West Coast cities to HNL? It is largely a leisure destination.


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2939 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days ago) and read 2901 times:

Japan would be good destination especially KIX & NGO since UA has left the KIX-HNL market and CO will soon vacate NGO-HNL.
I am sure it will be a matter of time before a route to China like PVG and/or PEK is started.


User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

What about SYD? I'd think that could work wonderfully. Bypassing LAX is NEVER a bad thing, and the fares on that route aren't what one would call low cost. I've got to think that many who'd connect at LAX would happily connect via HNL instead. Also, if HA could develop a reasonable premium class offering for a reasonable price (say, $3500), they would have something unique.

User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2850 times:



Quoting Kanebear (Reply 10):
What about SYD?

Hawaiian already serves Sydney.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1089 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2788 times:



Quoting Multimark (Reply 8):
Surely it can't be a much different situation from most US West Coast cities to HNL? It is largely a leisure destination.

Canada-US is largely point of sale Canada, so WS and AC have a built in brand advantage.



TLH
User currently offlineMark5388916 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2731 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 4):
Perhaps the second tier cities such as SMF, ONT and even maybe PHX since no one else seems to want to Europe.

As much as I would LOVE to see ONT get non-stop Europe service on HA metal, from my favorite airport, thats just not realistic in my opinion, not with the LAX super airport....

Mark



I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3629 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2531 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Every US airline that has tried Canada-Hawaii service has failed and dropped the route rather quickly. There have been about 4 or 5 over the years.

What U.S. airlines have done non-stop Canada-Hawaii service? The only one I can think of is AQ, who flew to Vancouver. The only other airlines I can think of that no longer fly Canada-Hawaii were all Canadian carriers: Canadian, Canada 3000, and Skyservice.


User currently offlineGeekydude From China, joined Apr 2004, 401 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days ago) and read 2495 times:



Quoting Carpethead (Reply 9):
I am sure it will be a matter of time before a route to China like PVG and/or PEK is start

I totally agree. Just learned that the US and China signed an agreement to allow Chinese tourists to travel to America next year. It will be only foolish not to grab a piece of the pie.



FLIB 152 'heavy' low approach...Caution wake turbulance!
User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days ago) and read 2485 times:



Quoting Ha763 (Reply 14):
What U.S. airlines have done non-stop Canada-Hawaii service? The only one I can think of is AQ, who flew to Vancouver. The only other airlines I can think of that no longer fly Canada-Hawaii were all Canadian carriers: Canadian, Canada 3000, and Skyservice.

I remember flying Western YVR-HNL. I also think CO may have done this route at one point as well(?)


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days ago) and read 2470 times:

Quoting Multimark (Reply 16):
Quoting Ha763 (Reply 14):
What U.S. airlines have done non-stop Canada-Hawaii service? The only one I can think of is AQ, who flew to Vancouver. The only other airlines I can think of that no longer fly Canada-Hawaii were all Canadian carriers: Canadian, Canada 3000, and Skyservice.

I remember flying Western YVR-HNL. I also think CO may have done this route at one point as well(?)

Aloha, Western, Continental and South Pacific Island Airways (SPIA), a carrier based in American Samoa. They operated 707s YVR-HNL for a while in the early 1980s. They ceased operations in 1987.

One of their five 707s at YVR in 1984:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Erik Johannesson


A few other Canadian carriers also operated to Hawaii, including the most recent one, Harmony Airways with 757s until they suspended service a year or so ago. CP Air and Wardair also served Hawaii for years (Wardair charters only). They of course eventually became part of Canadian Airlines. If memory correct, Pacific Western, the regional carrier that bought CP Air to form Canadian Airlines, also operated charters to Hawaii when they had their longhaul B707 charter operation.

[Edited 2007-12-12 19:29:14]

[Edited 2007-12-12 19:30:22]

User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days ago) and read 2449 times:

I think Hawaiian should add a bunch of flights to Japan as their first move into asia. When i was in Hawaii this summer, I would say like 50% of the tourists there had to be japanese and at the airport you can see all the big flights out to japan and other places. I think if HA started flights to some japanese cities then maybe try expanding the other way with some more mainland US flights then fill in some other cities along the way. If they expand right and not to fast they could grow very nicely.

B6jfk



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineMark5388916 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2214 times:

How slot restricted is Japan though?


I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7965 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

I believe HA's purchase of the A330-200 is for one purpose only: non-stop flights westbound from HNL to eastern Asian destinations. That means Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, Hong Kong, and possibly Shanghai in China. The A350-800's will be used for non-stop flights between western Europe and HNL, which may include LHR and a couple of other major cities in Europe.

User currently offlineAirAmericaC46 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 590 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

HA should apply HNL-Laoag-HKG then apply 5th freedom rights on the Laoag-HKG route!

User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

HNL is ideally placed as a hub for traffic between South America and Asia.

Of new flights I can see:

EZE-SCL-HNL
GIG-LIM-HNL
GRU-HNL

on the Asia end the possibilities are numerous. That would certainly be a lot of high-yielding business traffic.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2034 times:



Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 22):
HNL is ideally placed as a hub for traffic between South America and Asia.

Oh no it isn't.

Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay may have modern economies but they have one other thing in common too - their citizens have to get a US visa even to sit in a plane refuelling in the USA.

The most logical hubs not requiring a visa are probably Papeete and Auckland.


User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2011 times:

Legislation changes though and will certainly change before any such hypothetical service were to begin.

Brasil might be included in the VWP program in the near future. Chile and Argentina would be natural candidates for inclusion as well.


25 Koruman : The Visa Waiver program is limited to countries whose citizens have a less than 3% non-immigrant visa refusal rate, and only Chile and Uruguay in Lati
26 Post contains links MAH4546 : It already is law. http://www.expoweb.com/headline_search.asp?id=7064 Brazil is now more than welcome to apply to join the VWP, but without meeting o
27 SANFan : I can also see AS watching the YVR-HNL route closely; they are now able to carry traffic with a fairly easy connect thru SEA (and probably PDX soon a
28 Koruman : Not quite, it has been passed as a pilot program. Would you build an entire new route on the basis of a short-term exemption?
29 COSPN : HA Just stay out of HNL-GUM, Thanks CO...btw you can do HNL-NGO were out in March
30 Hawaiian717 : HA served this route years ago with the DC-8.
31 Viscount724 : Canada-Hawaii is a much more seasonal market than the US. All 4 US carriers that have operated YVR-HNL in the past found it unprofitable and dropped
32 RoseFlyer : Hawaii to Asia is a good market. Many people like the idea of having HNL as a connecting point between the US and Asia. But that market disappeared w
33 COSPN : Im Sure they can get HNL-NGO but the Pax loads are not that good thats why CO is pulling out... We will see how they do with MNL is the fight Daily ??
34 Pualani : Initially, there will be 4 flights a week. That is subject to change.
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