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Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.  
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 31274 times:

Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

I have decided to start a new thread so that all members can keep better track of what is happening with the 748 program in regards to orders. If I have failled to mention something, please feel free to inform.  Smile



On November 14, 2005, Boeing launcheed the 747-8 Family, the 747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane and the 747-8 Freighter, with orders from Cargolux and Nippon Cargo Airlines. Since it's launch Boeing has gathered a total of 103 orders/commitments, with 98 frames firmed up.


Boeing 748-8i


Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 2
Lufthansa German Airlines x 20

Total: 25 frames.


Boeing 748-8F



Atlas Air x 12
Cargolux Airlines x 13
Cathay Pacifc Airways x 10
DAE Capital 5 (*pending)
Emirates x 10
Guggenheim Aviation Partners x 4
Korean Air x 5
Nippon Cargo Airlines x 14
Volga Dnepr Airlines x 5

Total Firm: 73 frames.
Total Pending: 5 frames.

Regards,
Wings


Aviation Is A Passion.
102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 31144 times:

Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs?

[Edited 2007-12-10 12:28:00]


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 31078 times:



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs

You would be correct in that assumption.


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 31047 times:

This is good news for those that would like to continue seeing the 747's around for the next 20-30 more years.


GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31435 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 30999 times:
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Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs?

At this time, that seems to be the case.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 30822 times:

Who are the next likely customers for the 8I since BA decided to order the A-380?


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 30756 times:



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs?

[Edited 2007-12-10 12:28:00]

Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 30672 times:



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6):
Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.

How many do they number?


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 30654 times:

How many 744 pax and original 744Fs were sold?

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30590 times:



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6):
Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.

Not for 80% of the business. The Antonovs are build to last just half the number of cycles a 747 can and needs twice the crew. Also I doubt that an AN-124 could sustain the high utilisation rate of 15 hours per day 24/7 of a Jumbo-Jet.
The Antonovs are impressive special freighters with aging technology and serve their small market well, but hardly a threat for the 748F. Technologically you can compare it with a 747-200F, but not with the far more advanced 748F.

The 747 has proven to be THE ideal large freighter, and even the A380F by concept will not change it either. Whatever Airbus says, I guess the market for the A380F is not big enough to justify its development.


User currently offlinePhishphan70 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30574 times:



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs?

i believe ever since we all saw the 380F go down the drain we knew this would happen. the freight market is only going to grow, and grow fast at that, so airlines in areas of the world on the verge of an economic renasance....(KA and CX and many more) need aircraft that can move their loads effectively and efficiently. currently flying, there is no plane that can compete with the 747-400F for versatility, operating economics, and for most airlines, fleet commonality to your freighters. i have a feeling that we will eventually see an 8i order from CX at least, if not more from the list of already firm freighter orders. CX already has a bunch of 744's (even though they are cutting 744s off some routes and replacing them with smaller 77W's) but with slot restrictions at HKG, CX will always have a Very important VLA roll in their organization i believe.
i think everyone would agree that the 747-8F is going to be a successful aircraft and will find itself in an important roll after EIS. good luck to Boeing and all those already committed to the program, and here's to more firm orders to keep the Original Queen of the Skys in her rightful home!


User currently offlineBoeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30536 times:



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
How many 744 pax and original 744Fs were sold?

747-400 =442
747-400ER =6
747-400F =126



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30522 times:



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
How many 744 pax and original 744Fs were sold?

744 production started with line-no.696, now we are at line-no.1395. Subtracting a few dozen 742s and 743s built after the first 744 that should be 650+ 744s alltogether, of which nearly 500 are pax aircraft. Thats just rough out of my mind, like you I am a bit lazy to check the exact numers which surely are available somewhere.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30501 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 7):


Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6):
Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.

How many do they number?

+50 built AN-124s, 4 crashed, some of them are in military use.

Quoting NA (Reply 9):
Not for 80% of the business. The Antonovs are build to last just half the number of cycles a 747 can and needs twice the crew. Also I doubt that an AN-124 could sustain the high utilisation rate of 15 hours per day 24/7 of a Jumbo-Jet.
The Antonovs are impressive special freighters with aging technology and serve their small market well, but hardly a threat for the 748F. Technologically you can compare it with a 747-200F, but not with the far more advanced 748F.

The 747 has proven to be THE ideal large freighter, and even the A380F by concept will not change it either. Whatever Airbus says, I guess the market for the A380F is not big enough to justify its development.

Are the B742F stage3?
Well, upgrades are made for the AN-124 to extend their service life, AFAIK none AN-124 has been scrapped due to
number of cycles/hrs.

[Edited 2007-12-10 14:10:40]

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30501 times:



Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 11):
Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):How many 744 pax and original 744Fs were sold?
747-400 =442
747-400ER =6
747-400F =126

According to Wikipedia 493 744 pax were built (incl. -Ds and -ERs).


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30382 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 14):
According to Wikipedia 493 744 pax were built (incl. -Ds and -ERs).

When in doubt... Check... www.boeing.com.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31435 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30322 times:
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Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6):
Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.

In a very narrow niche. That is why the largest An-124 operator - Volga-Dnepr - will also fly the 747-8F and why the An-124 has sold 36 units versus 239 744F/744ERF/748F units.


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 30209 times:

What is the status of the design and production of the 747-8F and 747-8i? Has a production schedule been made public yet? Roll-out, First Flight, EIS?

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 30169 times:



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 2):
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs

You would be correct in that assumption.

I don't think so. All of the A-380-800Fs (24?) that were ordered were cancelled, then the program assentially was cancelled.

But, would you say the B-747-8i has the BBJ/CJ market over the A-380-800? Boeing has sold 5 B-747-8iBBJs while Airbus has sold only one A-380-800CJ.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Boeing 748-8i


Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 2
Lufthansa German Airlines x 20

Total: 25 frames.

Doesn't LH also have 20 B-747-8i options? Or are the options included?

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
Who are the next likely customers for the 8I since BA decided to order the A-380?

Who said BA will not order the B-747-8i? But, I believe that BA, NW, CX, JL, NH,UA, QF, and AF will eventualkly order the airplane, too. Sometime in there LH will exercise it's options into firm orders.

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 11):
747-400 =442
747-400ER =6
747-400F =126

I thought there was also 4 B-747-400ERFs built, all going to CX.


User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 30080 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Doesn't LH also have 20 B-747-8i options?



Quote:
The Boeing Company and Deutsche Lufthansa AG today announced the carrier ordered 20 747-8 Intercontinental jetliners plus 20 purchase rights.

Source: boeing.com

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
What is the status of the design and production of the 747-8F and 747-8i?

Both the F and i have reached firm configuration, which means that the design is mostly complete.

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
Has a production schedule been made public yet? Roll-out, First Flight, EIS?

Take a look here  wave  :
Flightblogger post about the 748


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 30010 times:



Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 3):
those that would like to continue seeing the 747's around for the next 20-30 more years

Count me in  bouncy  I love the 747....

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 2):
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs

You would be correct in that assumption.

....although I doubt that it was a friendly agreement....just happened by circumstances....and could change drastically any day... smile 


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 29780 times:



Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 15):
When in doubt... Check

Thanks for the info!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 29500 times:

also believe that
SQ, Yes
KL, 50/50
AZ, dout it
MX, not sure
AR, 50/50
AC, dout it, 777's and 787's
IB, 50/50
SA, nope
NZ, dout it , 777's and 787's
LA, nope
AA, why??!!
CO, why ??!!



CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 29409 times:

I think the 748 is just selling slow for now, I expect it will eventually have its place just like LH believes. These are the orders I expect...
BA: they didn't sound interested, but unless they plan on only filling their A380 with around 480 they will need a plane a little larger than the A350-1000 to fill the gap, while it is a slim chance it could still happen.

Biz jets: I find it strange that all the sudden that many biz jet 748 orders would be placed, I think it could be a govt order to replace the 2 air force ones and the E-4B, before people tell me those planes have cycles left in them just remember, they are less efficient 742s in a time of "green", plus theey wouldn't even be delivered until around 2010 and then have to go under their extensive defense modifications etc. So by the time that was done it would be time for some new planes.

NW and UA: both need a 748 for Asia routes while the A380 is too big for them (unless either airline merged with another one, then they might need an A380 for the extra capacity. NW would use the new 748s for pax and move their 744s to cargo to replace the 742

SQ/QF: not gonna happen they are happy with just the A380
Air France/ klm: air France might need it, it depends on how large of a gap there is between their A380s and 773s. Klm doesn't need it, most of their 744s are combo versions so unless Boeing offers that it won't happen


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 29059 times:



Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
What is the status of the design and production of the 747-8F and 747-8i?

Firm configuration was in early November, which means they are working detailed design now.

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
Has a production schedule been made public yet? Roll-out, First Flight, EIS?

First delivery is set for late 2010, so production should start sometime in 2009. As you'd expect this early in the project, there is no roll-out or first flight prediction yet.

Quoting Brendows (Reply 19):
Both the F and i have reached firm configuration, which means that the design is mostly complete.

That is not what firm configuration means. Firm configuration means they've pinned down the gross dimensions, performance targets, and architecture. Firm configuration means detailed design can *start*, not that it's complete.

Tom.


25 KrisYYZ : What happened with EK ordering the B748i? Did Boeing reject their request for a shorter version of the 748i? I am somewhat surprised at the lack of cu
26 ER757 : I think CI or CX. Down the road a bit would be NW and UA IMHO. Outside shot of BA needing some, their non-order of recent times notwithstanding. Goin
27 BoeingFever777 : AA1818 only asked about the 744 and 744F nothing more... Therefore you can void, cast out, ignore every other type. 744ER 744ERF 744D 744M I only ans
28 Post contains images JRDC930 : This is going to be a very inactive thread if we go on developments; nothing new for several months and a 2% probability of more orders makes me think
29 Post contains links Mike89406 : This thread could potentially turn in to this thread Short Question : Will The 747-8I Ever Be Built? (by Beaucaire Nov 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)?thre
30 AF022 : What kind of difference in performance is there for the B747-8 over the B777-300ER? I am guessing only that the B747-800 has more capacity? Isn't the
31 Stitch : I do not believe EK was ever serious about ordering it. But even if they were, they evidently didn't want enough of them to make it worth Boeing's mo
32 JAM747 : Why did they still build -200s and -300s after the -400 was in production? How many of these are 400ERF? I was hoping that Boeing would have sold mor
33 Post contains links BoeingFever777 : There is a difference in F and ERF. F =4445 nautical mile range. ERF =4970 nautical mile range. Again... 744 =442 744D =19 744ER =06 744F =126 744ERF
34 PanAm_DC10 : What about a listing of Option Conversions and outstanding Options and Purchase Rights for each operator that took them out? That is what this thread
35 Post contains links Tdscanuck : EK wasn't specifically demanding a shorter version, they were demanding more range (Dubai-LAX both ways, I think), and Boeing wasn't willing to meet
36 Post contains links WINGS : Now that China Airlines has opted for the A350-900 XWB, to meet its mid-size fleet needs, I think its appropriate for us to discuss which way China Ai
37 CHRISBA777ER : BA - never. NW - possible. CX - unlikely. JL - possible. NH - Never in a million years. UA - possible. QF - Not a prayer. AF - you are joking right?
38 KC135TopBoom : Unless Airbus heaverily discounts the A-380 (which they do regularly), you can through out option #3. China may go the same way LH went, with option
39 Post contains images Scouseflyer : Flightblogger has it more advanced than that - he believes the first components will start to be manufactured in Feb 08
40 Danny : Or convert -8i to -8F.
41 Kappel : I think CI is a natural fit for the 748, due to the fact that their 744F fleet (20) is even larger than their 744 fleet (15). The 744 fleet is IMHO n
42 KC135TopBoom : That won't happen. The A-380 is not a good fit on all of the LH routes that requirea VLA, so they ordered 20 B-747-8is and took options on 20 more. I
43 Columba : No, they ruled it out several times. They are very happy with their 77W/A380 mix for now. Agreed, I think the same. Hopefully 2008 will be a lucky nu
44 HOOB747 : I feel United will order a dozen or so 747-8i in the next few years to remain competitive in the Pacific market. The airlines lack of recent aircraft
45 Post contains images Buddys747 : I wish I could log all of the people saying comments like these a few years from now. The 748i WILL get more orders, period. Not everyone needs a VLA
46 Someone83 : Why is people hare at A.net som focused on the gap in seat capacity? That has nothing to do with airliners fleet planning!
47 Columba : Because that is one of the reasons why LH decided to order the 747-8I and LH will not be the only airline that might feel the gap between A346/77W an
48 GeorgeJetson : Now why would Mexicana order any Boeing 747s? They have never had this type in their fleet.
49 GeorgeJetson : With all the A380s that Emirates has ordered, I can't imagine that they would need more VLAs like the 748i. I have no idea how they plan on filling a
50 LH498 : I agree that AR could order some, however don't forget they have a couple of A380's coming, so chances of a B748i order may not be so good if at all.
51 Post contains images Gr8Circle : Nor do EK....
52 KC135TopBoom : If Boeing pushed the range of the B-747-8i to 8500nm or 8600nm, would they get more orders? Would EK really order it? That new range would seperate it
53 Stitch : Possibly, depending on how much it impacted payload. Not many airlines need that kind of range - they buy A345s and 77Ls more for how much stuff they
54 Columba : The 747-8 would offer a much bigger cargo capability than the 77L and A345/A350R so this could be a great plus in comparision with the smaller aircra
55 JRDC930 : I would gladly put my foot in my mouth if thats true. Feel free to log my responses and tell me again when we get more 8i orders. (i.e. NEVER). Obvio
56 Ikramerica : CI, NH, JL, UA, China, CX are all good possibilities. I'm not sold that BA is out of the mix, considering the large size of their 747 fleet and no pla
57 Davescj : Aren't all the factory installed mods? certainly, if by no one else, Boeing Defense? With DL expaning as fast as they can internationally, why wouldn
58 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..EK themselves have stated that if Boeing could get the B748I to the range they need they will be ordering it..so I still see it as a possibility...
59 CHRISBA777ER : Respectfully, the A350XWB-1000 fits this gap nicely. As previously stated - IF they can do this without impacting payload then I think EK probably wi
60 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..hence why I stated "if"... while it might be able to...that would certainly be pushing its limits..and it wouldn't have the best cargo payload...th
61 Ikramerica : Respectfully, BA have not ordered it, and there is a huge gap between 350 and 550 seats even if they do. Considering BA has 50 planes of 747 size, I
62 Ikramerica : Same holds for the "Airforce 1" birds. If ordered today, the earliest the first bird would be in service for this use would be 2013, making the curre
63 WINGS : Airbus no longer consider the A388 to be a 550 seater (3 class). Even with the revised seating capacity of 525, I have a very hard time believing tha
64 Ikramerica : It doesn't matter. It's nominal. Airbus dropped the nominal A380 seat count to 525 to extend it's range. But it's the same plane it always was. It do
65 WINGS : Reducing capacity did increase range, but Airbus indicated that industry standards have evolved since it first presented the 550 pax configuration. T
66 CHRISBA777ER : It doesnt anyway to be fair - although I would think EK Cargo would probably look to serve LAX if there really is the cargo demand there. I still thi
67 HOOB747 : Wasn't SAM 26000 (the plane JFK took to Dallas November 22, 1963) ferrying around President Clinton in the 90s? I remember when Air Force One became
68 Stitch : Still, that can be a pretty big gap. For LH, there is a 180-seat difference between the A388 and the highest-density A346 (with 369 seats), so I can
69 JRDC930 : If you read the BA statement when they ordered their A380's and 787, you'll note they specifically did NOT mention the 748i as a possibility for futur
70 Flysherwood : Because they really believe that business people from Europe and the USA are going to want to stop in DXB just to get to India, Singapore, Africa and
71 Stitch : But that is the trick now, isn't it? When Boeing launched the 777-X, CX said at the time - and in no uncertain terms - that if it didn't have RR powe
72 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..well I disagree with you and since I'm cooler than you are what I say goes.. ... Just taking the piss mate... I think EK believes right now "all ca
73 Post contains images ZKSUJ : NZ may order it towards the end of teh 748 production line, we seem to have a habit of ordering the last aircraft before the production line closes...
74 Ikramerica : Not really. Well, on SQ they do. What has changed is that Airbus under counted the premium demand on all their models in the past, and changed that f
75 Post contains images BlueShamu330s : They'd better call the 380 order hotline PDQ then !!!! Shamu
76 HOOB747 : Got it, I understand your point better now about the 20 year in-service theme. But just seems like a waste to take those 2 big, beautiful 747-200s an
77 Post contains images Ikramerica : But you have to think of it this way: whatever they replace with now will again fly for another 20-25 years as a pair. These birds would not be able t
78 HOOB747 : Thanks Ikramerica, visitors can go inside SAM2600 at Wright Patterson (very cool). You've convinced me about the possibility of a fresh AF1 order, I
79 Ikramerica : The big question is whether they would build it with the SUD (or Super SUD, as it were) or do it like the current VC-25. Remember that the older 747s
80 DL767captain : Maybe UA could handle it because of their 4 class (more like 3) but NW with only a 2 class could never use that capacity Well thats like having a gap
81 FRNT787 : BA also clearly said no to the A-380 a few years ago as well...
82 Post contains links SM92 : I'm wondering about fellow forum members views of what the future of NWA cargo operations might be. Accoring to this article: http://www.commercialap
83 Tdscanuck : Probably not. The delta on missions between 8000 nm and 8600 nm is very very small. Nope. Well, you could make them into E-4's if you wanted, but wha
84 Anonms : Option 4: 748i exclusively. It was stated before (in separate instances): 1. If CI were to purchase the A350, they would purchase the 748i 2. If CI w
85 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : Never say never......... Ahhh, doesn't the B-777-300ER fit in there? NW will still need a VLA for their Asia routes from DET and MSP. The B-747-8i fi
86 HOOB747 : I agree that the Government is not concerned with fuel efficiency (see reply 67), but give Ikramerica credit where credit's due. Refurbishments to th
87 Stitch : While the USAF may order a 747BBJ down the road, if any of the five were USAF planes it would be public knowledge in a Defense Appropriations bill sin
88 JohnClipper : I wasn't aware that HKG was already at it's capacity limits and slot restricted.
89 WingedMigrator : Both aircraft can do it with full passenger loads. The make-or-break question is "with how much cargo below decks?" Forty of them are on firm order.
90 FWI747 : Just for my 747 fan curiosity, could you give us the numbers of the 7478i on the same basis ?
91 BlueSky1976 : Yes, the money can be made by carrying a larger number of high-fare paying premium passengers. Using your logic it would not make sense to buy 777 fo
92 Thegeek : Are you sure? How far is that? The only way I can see that is possible is over the Arctic.
93 Stitch : The 747-8I will always have the advantage there because it has more LD3 positions, period, and will need to dedicate less of them to passenger bags d
94 AF022 : This is interesting. Can you elaborate?
95 Brendows : The size difference between the cargo holds on the 748i and A388 aren't that large, the A388 has about 10m^3 more volume, that's about 5% more volume
96 Stitch : A 747-8I has 40 total LD3 positions and an A388 has 38. Two positions doesn't sound like much, but then you need to factor in how many LD3 positions
97 KC135TopBoom : 7246nm, over the Arctic. But that is a no wind distance. With a winter head wind over the higher latitudes (which could be 150+ knots) there could be
98 WingedMigrator : I'm not so sure about that. Polar routes are rarely flown head-on into jet streams, which flow mostly along parallels not meridians... and a 150+ kno
99 Thegeek : A B744 has 7260nm range - could only do it with no cargo and in the wind favouring direction. Even a B748 with a 8000nm range or a A388 with a 8200nm
100 SunriseValley : According to great circle mapper the heading from DXB to LAX is 354 degrees not too much different than JFK-HKG where the headings are right around 3
101 NA : What about the USAF and their Flying Laser weapon? If they want to proceed with that program, which is much delayed and apparently problem-ridden so f
102 Stitch : If the ABL program is approved for production, it will use the 747-8F as it's base.
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