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Direct BOS-China Flights  
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick and a delegation of 40 people are over in China on a trade tour and it has been mentioned that an announcement of direct service between Boston and China could be announced.

Patrick did an interview with NECN (New England Cable News) and he said “We will have some news, I hope, to announce with respect to direct air service between Boston and Beijing and Shanghai. We have some details to work out."

Also to note, Governor Patrick shared a dinner with the Chairman of Hainan Airlines. Undoubtedly, a topic of conversation will be the air link between Boston and China. Accompanying Governor Patrick on the Trade Mission is the CEO of the Massachusetts Port Authority Tom Kinton who oversees the operation of Logan Airport.

Last week, a member of the Governor's Commission on Asian American Affairs reaffirmed that flights between BOS and PEK were planned for launch sometime in 2009.

This may finally be something to mention in regards to BOS finally getting non-stop service to Asia. It has been brought up before, but only on speculation that perhaps NW would start BOS-NRT or NH would do BOS-NRT.

Over 68,000 people a year fly between Boston and China, that doesn't even take into account ICN, SIN, NRT, KIX, TPE, KUL and India.

Hopefully Patrick can get something done, Boston Mayor Menino had announced service almost 2 years ago, but that never happened, perhaps now something will get done.

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Just found this

http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2007/11/26/daily28.html

Also posted here http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2007/11/report-boston-t.html

Yangtze River Express, which I believe is affiliated with Hainan, started 3 x weekly cargo flights to Shanghai from BOS


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4566 times:



Quoting B752OS (Thread starter):
Over 68,000 people a year fly between Boston and China

Does that include HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777, and Boston does not make a good hub being further east than anywhere in the US.


User currently offlineBa747400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4553 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 2):
Does that include HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777, and Boston does not make a good hub being further east than anywhere in the US.

DL and US both have large operations at BOS, what about codeshares/connections through BOS? What about pax who dont want to transfer through JFK or ORD...not to mention, it could be cheaper and/or more convenient.


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4555 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 2):
Quoting B752OS (Thread starter):
Over 68,000 people a year fly between Boston and China

Does that include HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777, and Boston does not make a good hub being further east than anywhere in the US.

That is a good question. I would guess no as Hong Kong is not technically part of China. I think it's a safe assumption that with a non-stop option, the numbers would increase a great deal as people who would normally go say PVD-ORD-PEK (I know several people whop do this 8-9 times a year) they could simply go BOS-PEK.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4509 times:

Guess they forgot the memo that China has already decided all new USA-China routes on Chinese carriers through the next two years. Service between Boston and China between now and the end of 2009 is impossible.

A lot of cities - Miami, Boston, Houston - host these "trade missions", but they don't end up with anything. The best opportunity for Boston and other large cities without Asian service like is definitely not China, it's a major connecting hub like Seoul. Nonetheless, trade missions to China are in fashion these days.

[Edited 2007-12-10 20:59:45]


a.
User currently offlineIwannagothere From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Doesn't AA have the largest presence at BOS? I know this is a tad off topic, but what airlines have the most flights or passengers out of BOS?

User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4451 times:



Quoting Ba747400 (Reply 3):
DL and US both have large operations at BOS, what about codeshares/connections through BOS? What about pax who dont want to transfer through JFK or ORD...not to mention, it could be cheaper and/or more convenient.

I suppose it is possible, but you basically have to go northeast before traveling northwest. Kind of as if I traveled to China from California by flying to Chicago first. It is the long way around.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4391 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 4):
as Hong Kong is not technically part of China.

Actually Hong Kong (and Macau) are technically part of China. They're officially known as Special Admininstrative Regions (SARs) of China. They of course have the ability to make their own decisions in various areas including bilateral air agreements.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4259 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 2):
Does that include HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777, and Boston does not make a good hub being further east than anywhere in the US.

BOS may not make a good hub in the US, but PEK makes a pretty good hub for Asia. The new PEK terminal due to open in time for the Olympics is looking fantastic. If the choices were BOS-SFO-NRT-SIN, or BOS-PEK-SIN what would you chose?


User currently offlineJCarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4101 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 1):
Yangtze River Express, which I believe is affiliated with Hainan, started 3 x weekly cargo flights to Shanghai from BOS

Unfortunately, this service quietly disappeared back in the summer. June or July.


User currently offlineRcardinale From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3993 times:



Quoting JCarv (Reply 10):
Unfortunately, this service quietly disappeared back in the summer. June or July

Yea I was gonna say I used to see their 747's fly over my house every week but I haven't of lately. It used to fly China-JFK-BOS-ANC-China. What happened?


User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3222 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3921 times:

Remember, "direct flight" often means one flight number with a change of planes.


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3809 times:



Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 12):
Remember, "direct flight" often means one flight number with a change of planes.

With all due respect to Governor Patrick, I would be surprised if he knew that when he made the comment  Smile


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3768 times:



Quoting Ba747400 (Reply 3):
DL and US both have large operations at BOS, what about codeshares/connections through BOS? What about pax who dont want to transfer through JFK or ORD...not to mention, it could be cheaper and/or more convenient.

well to tell you the truth IF DL could get MASSport to put in Customs in the Delta terminal then i could see DL going for BOS-PEK/PVG(after ATL,LAX,JFK get PEK/PVG and maybe CAN with CZ joining SkyTeam) but i think it could happen(but by the time it happens we will have an open skies with China)



yep.
User currently offlineBA747400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3689 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 14):
well to tell you the truth IF DL could get MASSport to put in Customs in the Delta terminal

lol dont get me started on massport....IF massport cooperated in the first place, BOS might have been the host for many of the now-JFK-to-europe flights....what with their multi gazillion dollar terminal and all. Ah well, guess those gates will just have to be rented out now. greatttttt


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3642 times:



Quoting BA747400 (Reply 15):
lol dont get me started on massport....IF massport cooperated in the first place, BOS might have been the host for many of the now-JFK-to-europe flights....what with their multi gazillion dollar terminal and all. Ah well, guess those gates will just have to be rented out now. greatttttt

rolmao........i don't know about replacing JFK but it would be a hub now (and would probably have LHR flights on its way)
but thanks again MASSport at least Delta will get money for subleasing those gates out.......maybe someone should show this to the mayor(even though BOS would still be 15-20 years away from getting PEK/PVG out of Delta but they would get some big cities in Europe and Latin America)



yep.
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3569 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 2):
HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777

So instead of daily service, how about 2-3 flights per week. Then they could possibly fill a 777.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3487 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
rolmao........i don't know about replacing JFK but it would be a hub now (and would probably have LHR flights on its way)

BOS does not have the runway capacity/layout to make it a hub no matter how good the terminal facilities may be. BOS will always be predominantly a O&D market, and a very strong one at that. The last thing BOS needs is a bunch of RJ/Turboprop feeder flights. It's unfair to blame Massport alone for lack of FIS in terminal A. If the Feds aren't willing to staff it (which they said they wouldn't), what's the point of building it? Have you ever been on an inbound International flights at terminal E? It's never staffed at more than 1/3 capacity? What makes you think they would eventually agree to staff another facility at terminal A?
I wouldn't be surprised to see DL take over one of AZ's flights to Milan or Rome as soon as next Summer but service to china/Asia will not come from DL for sure. It will come from an Asian carrier first and NW second.


User currently offlineJCarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3445 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 18):
BOS does not have the runway capacity/layout to make it a hub no matter how good the terminal facilities may be. BOS will always be predominantly a O&D market, and a very strong one at that. The last thing BOS needs is a bunch of RJ/Turboprop feeder flights. It's unfair to blame Massport alone for lack of FIS in terminal A. If the Feds aren't willing to staff it (which they said they wouldn't), what's the point of building it? Have you ever been on an inbound International flights at terminal E? It's never staffed at more than 1/3 capacity? What makes you think they would eventually agree to staff another facility at terminal A?
I wouldn't be surprised to see DL take over one of AZ's flights to Milan or Rome as soon as next Summer but service to china/Asia will not come from DL for sure. It will come from an Asian carrier first and NW second.

Finally, someone speaks the truth instead of blaming just Massport. CBP is the one who is restricting international flights to Terminal E. They restrict other airlines from coming in due to their staffing issues. They refused to staff overnight shift which forced TACA to pull out. Massport has a gate space issue in Terminal E and I'm sure they would like to get rid of the American, Delta, jetBlue, and US Airways international arrivals to free some up during busy times.


User currently offlineIAD787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 502 posts, RR: 43
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3445 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
With all due respect to Governor Patrick, I would be surprised if he knew that when he made the comment

He knows what he's talking about. He used to be on the board of United.



Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3361 times:



Quoting IAD787 (Reply 20):
He knows what he's talking about. He used to be on the board of United.

That's not saying much  Smile


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3336 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 9):
BOS may not make a good hub in the US, but PEK makes a pretty good hub for Asia. The new PEK terminal due to open in time for the Olympics is looking fantastic. If the choices were BOS-SFO-NRT-SIN, or BOS-PEK-SIN what would you chose?

Neither. I would choose BOS-EWR-SIN or BOS-LAX-SIN.

I don't think any chinese airports will be major hubs until they open up their visa restrictions. Americans and Europeans can travel through most Asian countries without any visas. When I traveled to Shanghai, I had to send my passport to a company in Washington to obtain a one-time visa. The whole process tied up my passport for three weeks and cost $110 including visa charge, processing fee and Federal Express mailing. I don't see how Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou can be major hubs until this is liberalized.

I know someone will tell me that you don't need a visa to connect, but if you miss your connection, or are sick and want to continue on a later flight, or want to have a cheap stopover, then you have to go through a great hassle to leave the airport and go to a hotel.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 17):
So instead of daily service, how about 2-3 flights per week. Then they could possibly fill a 777.

There are problems with crew scheduling on flights that are not daily. The plane returns back to the US the same day, but the crew must overnight for 24 hours. Delta does operate a 4x per week JFK-Kiev, but the pilots and flight attendents have to spend two nights in a hotel waiting for their return flight.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3327 times:



Quoting B752OS (Thread starter):
Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick and a delegation of 40 people are over in China on a trade tour and it has been mentioned that an announcement of direct service between Boston and China could be announced.

what a waste of time..no US carrier will fly it and thus use up precious China frequencies to fly market that would never win DOT approval and also it wouldnt be connected to teh airline's main network...ie HUB.


A chinese carrier might fly it but theyll be lucky to ahve a 50% LF.


Gov Patrick is probably on a junket to meet 19 yr old Chinese girls


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3289 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 22):
Neither. I would choose BOS-EWR-SIN or BOS-LAX-SIN.

But I didn't give you those options. My point is, the great majority of the passengers traveling between Boston and Singapore do not use those routes. Instead they are using one of the cheaper 2 stop routings. In general, if I need to go to Asia, I would trade a change of planes in ORD/SFO/LAX/JFK for a change of planes in PEK/HKG/ICN, any day. And I suspect many other people whould do that too but unfortunately right now that is not an option.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 23):
what a waste of time..

I'm sure they're talking about a lot more than flights to Boston.


25 LH423 : The problem with that is that it kills yields. Business travellers want flexibility. When you only have 2-3 flights a week, you chase away potential
26 AirPortugal310 : In case you care, Recalling the throng on people every morning at Continental going to Asia, I saw very few business looking people. Looked more like
27 Eghansen : Sorry, but I just don't think it is going to happen. The big gateways to Asia are Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and New York because that is w
28 B752OS : I assume you are not talking about ever. Boston is the largest market in the U.S. without current flights to Asia. It will happen wihtout a doubt. Th
29 Pellegrine : That's it? I'm sure they don't mind connecting at JFK/ORD/etc... The best bet for BOS-Asia is NRT on a small plane, 787-8, maybe. Ongoing pax could c
30 Post contains images Geekydude : But things are changing fast! As I said in another thread, the US and China recently signed an agreement allowing Chinese tourists to visit the US ne
31 QantasHeavy : I think BOS might see Asia passenger service with the 787, but nothing 'til then.
32 SoBe : Obviously they would like a nonstop but they have direct service to PEK. UA897 and 898 on the return through IAD.
33 B752OS : Of course 68,000 seems small when you compare it to LAX or JFK for example. That 68,000 is only to PVG and PEK. That does not include HKG, SIN, ICN,
34 VictorKilo : I think a NW 787-8 flight BOS-NRT is the best bet for Boston-Asia service, and would allow connections at NRT to most major Asian markets. Maybe it c
35 ChrisNH : 100% agreed. In fact, I think that Boston-Japan happens before Boston-China does...no matter what Massachusetts' governor and his 40-person boondoggl
36 Geekydude : Agreed. Unfortunately I don't think this problem can be solved anytime soon. Visa handling is reciprocal. Chinese citizens need to go through a lot m
37 EXAAUADL : NW could make BOS-NRT work well with the 787
38 B752OS : I also believe that the first service to Asia from Boston will be to NRT with a 787 on either NW of NH. Although JL could also be a carrier that woul
39 Airbazar : Tell that to SQ. they just announced 4x weekly service to IAH and many airlines offer non-daily long haul routes. These days with airline alliances,
40 LH423 : I'm not saying it's the end-all-be-all rule. Look at BA. They profitably fly to LUN 1x weekly. Or, in your case IAH is known to be a profitable desti
41 MPDPilot : yeah but LAX is very far south so if I was in say ohio it would be very out of the way probably more so than bos. it is kind of interesting when it c
42 Flighty : But it is a little small for that. It's smaller than a 777-200 (speaking of the 788 here), so it would hardly be the plane to put on DTW-NRT, for exa
43 BAGoldEx : Not to mention that with Continental's minuscule Boston presence a throng is probably about five people.
44 B752OS : The size of CO at BOS has no weight on how many people connect BOS-EWR-NRT/HKG/PEK. CO operates 13 x daily BOS-EWR flight that can connect to the Asi
45 BAGoldEx : Take it easy there killer, my assertion is that fewer people fly CO to Asia from Boston relative to AA, UA and even DL. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, whoop
46 AirPortugal310 : funny how a simple observation turns into some kind of speculation as to whether a route could happen.... some of you flunked People Watching 101 and
47 Post contains links and images Airbazar : BOS is a great international gateway. It may not be a great International hub but a lot of it has to do with the unfortunate layout and space constra
48 Bobnwa : The leading carrier for passengers from Boston to Asia boardings is a close call between UA and NW depending on the month. CO, AA, and DL are well be
49 B752OS : Well said and I feel the same way. BOS is not that nice of an airport when you look at the quality of the terminals, etc. Massport has done a nice jo
50 Post contains images Airbazar : I've heard people call for a new airport before, but when I ask where they kinda scratch their head 10 miles out is still inside Rt128. Where would y
51 Rcardinale : So your basically saying that Terminal C is a dump because u like all of the other terminals so i don't understand how that equates BOS to be a dump?
52 AirPortugal310 : Like it or not... Terminal C is a dump. The only part of the terminal that looks even remotely appealing is the jetBlue wing (being recently refurbis
53 Rcardinale : I agree that it is a dump but money has been spent on it the B6 wing like u said and the new food court before security but I just dont understand how
54 Zrs70 : While A,B, and E certainly are nice, even state of the art, none has the character of C. It's an older style terminal. They don't make 'em like that a
55 Post contains images AirPortugal310 : Character is sure does have... Functionality? no way. Crowded gates, small baggage claims, poor functionality for ramp employees (you should see what
56 B752OS : I am not saying I like the other terminals better. 9 times out of 10 I fly UA for my busienss travel and they fly out of C, so I use it a lot. It's a
57 SLCUT2777 : BOS has needed more runway space for longer than I can remember, but they've had a NIMBY problem that has been successful for too long. I could actua
58 B752OS : BOS is definately in need of some extra runway space, just look at the problems KE had as the lack of length did not allow them operate a fully loade
59 SLCUT2777 : Europe hasn't been a problem since SEA gets service from BA, AF and now LH. But Asia, where they have so much more O&D potential does get damaged by
60 Airbazar : And which problems would those be? It's a lot more complex than blaming Massport. Massport, the Feds, and Delta all share the blame for lack of CBP f
61 MAH4546 : Exactly. There is no need for Delta to go into that market right now. Airlines, including DL, have no problem having flights arrive at international
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