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TAM To Fly GIG-MIA & GIG-JFK On S08 (finally!)  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8552 times:
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Finally !

TAM today confirm thru it's Sales and Marketing Vice-President that they will begin flights between Rio de Janeiro (GIG) and both Miami (MIA) and New York (JFK) on Summer 2008 (they mentioned June / July )

Rumors says that TAM is looking for some 763's and they could use them as a temporary measure to fly both routes while they are under negotiations for other planes. Also they expect to receive 4 77W to replace 3 M11's as well as 4 A332.

This will increase the importance of GIG on JJ network (and during the past 60 days JJ begin GIG-MAO, a 8th GIG-BSB, a 7th daily GIG-VIX, 5th daily GIG-SSA, 3rd daily GIG-CPQ, 4th daily GIG-CWB, 2nd daily GIG-BEL, a new service to IOS and more is expected). Nowadays GIG boards about 5,600 pax a day for JJ and it's third station in terms of O&D traffic (CGH is the leader with around 10,000 and GRU comes after with 6,600).
During 2007 GIG grows from 830,000 pax in January (high season) to 1,032,000 pax a month in November (low season with 49% increase over past year) expecting a major 25% increase over 2006 full-year result.

For the first time it's expected to reach more than 10,000,000 passengers a year.

Link:
http://www.mercadoeeventos.com.br/sc...?pStrLink=3,26,0,26692&IndSeguro=0

No info has been released about schedule but comments heard that MIA plans are for 14x weekly flights with daylight including stops in Brazilian Northeast (SSA, REC and FOR). JFK should begin with one plane like other JJ routes (JFK, MAD and MXP).

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8467 times:

That's great to hear!

Very good news for GIG and other destinations that will now have an option to avoid GRU! Which makes it good news for GRU also, since we'll be a little less busy at peak hours.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8352 times:
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Quoting PPVRA (Reply 1):
Very good news for GIG and other destinations that will now have an option to avoid GRU! Which makes it good news for GRU also, since we'll be a little less busy at peak hours.

You're right. Demand in Brazil is growing at higher levels and all we need is an alternative. I wish they begin also some Northeast-MIA and JFK flights in order to allow leisure and some business travellers to reach places like REC, FOR, NAT and SSA easier.

The bilateral Brazil-US is also under discussions for a possible revision/upgrade.

Nice after 1 year where we just saw additional capacity to Europe and South America. It's almost impossible to book an economy ticket Brazil-US-Brazil in January for less than US$ 2,000, almost the same fare we can pay for a Business Ticket Brazil-Europe-Brazil (US$ 2,600 to US$ 3,000).

Seems that US-Brazil will see additional services also with RG (GRU-MIA and GRU-EWR) in the near future.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8346 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
Seems that US-Brazil will see additional services also with RG (GRU-MIA and GRU-EWR) in the near future.

VRG is already in talks for counter space at MIA. They will operate out of Concourse J. Tentative date is looking like around the last week of March, with two daily flights to GRU.



a.
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8264 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Rumors says that TAM is looking for some 763's and they could use them as a temporary measure to fly both routes while they are under negotiations for other planes. Also they expect to receive 4 77W to replace 3 M11's as well as 4 A332.

IF they expect to receive 4 773ER & 4 A332, why would they need the 767? Unless they are planing other int'l services like LAX, those 8 aircrafts should be enough to replace the MD-11 and start both MIA & JFK from GIG.

Anyways, these new services out of GIG are more than welcomed. GIG desperately needed more services to MIA and specially to JFK. Also I believe GIG-FRA could be launched by JJ or LH, although that would need a revision in the bilateral agreement.

Other than that, I believe GRU-LAX is the main market that needs to be restore by JJ. Perhaps, they could finally split the FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA flight.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8243 times:
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Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 4):
Other than that, I believe GRU-LAX is the main market that needs to be restore by JJ.

Is there any word as to when JJ might start LAX? 332, M11? Daily?


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8169 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 5):
Is there any word as to when JJ might start LAX? 332, M11? Daily?

Yeah Felipe, why is TAM not flying to Los Angeles, the largest O&D airport in the world???


User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8149 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 6):
Yeah Felipe, why is TAM not flying to Los Angeles, the largest O&D airport in the world???

At least from Brazil is not that big in terms of O&D.


User currently offlineDonzilasse From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8071 times:

Great news about GIG/MIA! Finally an alternative to GRU. As much as I hate to see some old 767,s on that route it might be a way to get by with it as long as AA also run their old 767,s to GIG. In the long run I do believe that TAM will have to be a little bit more consistant in their equipment so that their passangers can know what to expect while flying TAm.

Lasse


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8038 times:
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Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 4):
IF they expect to receive 4 773ER & 4 A332, why would they need the 767? Unless they are planing other int'l services like LAX, those 8 aircrafts should be enough to replace the MD-11 and start both MIA & JFK from GIG.

The 77W's as we know will just replace the M11's. Concerning to A332, IMO they could use

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 4):
Also I believe GIG-FRA could be launched by JJ or LH, although that would need a revision in the bilateral agreement.

Agree 100%.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 4):
Other than that, I believe GRU-LAX is the main market that needs to be restore by JJ. Perhaps, they could finally split the FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA flight.

Agree, they already mentioned plans/studies for LAX, MEX, ZRH and JNB.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 5):
Is there any word as to when JJ might start LAX? 332, M11? Daily?

IMO, will begin also in 2008.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 6):
Yeah Felipe, why is TAM not flying to Los Angeles, the largest O&D airport in the world???

Matter of time Juventus !

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 7):
At least from Brazil is not that big in terms of O&D.

There is demand for West Coast-Brazil, but nowadays is hard to say if it's so big or not as all pax travel thru IAH, MIA, DFW, ATL and other hubs. US DOT reports shows about 700 people using UA services to Brazil out of SFO which means the real demand is unclear but could be IMO, closer to 4,500 pax/month, enough to fill 80% of an Airbus A332.
Furthermore, i recall that some pax from Japan could take advantage of this.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8036 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Rumors says that TAM is looking for some 763's

I also heard a rumor TAM is getting 4 IL96-300 in 2009  Wink

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
This will increase the importance of GIG on JJ network

Interesting though is that Gol is already larger than TAM at GIG and will continue being so. If one counts the RG operation, TAM will have have real difficulty becoming the largest airline at GIG.

The final tab on US-Brazil frequencies on the Brazilian side is then TAM 5 MIA daily (2GRU, 2GIG, MAO) and 4 JFK daily (2GRU, 2GIG). TAM will have 55% of the frequencies allowed. RG serving MIA twice daily and possibly JFK twice daily leaves about 3.5 daily frequencies available under the current rules.



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User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7988 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
VRG is already in talks for counter space at MIA. They will operate out of Concourse J. Tentative date is looking like around the last week of March, with two daily flights to GRU.

Thanks for the news! They say approximately in late March? So let's wait it for begin May.
International expansion in 2007 has been made towards Europe. Next year the fare war will reach Brazil - US.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 4):
Also I believe GIG-FRA could be launched by JJ or LH, although that would need a revision in the bilateral agreement.

Two points to think over...
1) VARIG is no longer selling GIG-FRA in their website. I understand thereupon as they're ultimately pulling out of the route;
2) No need to review bilateral for LH. There are three daily frequencies available for each country. LH uses two only.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7956 times:



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
2) No need to review bilateral for LH. There are three daily frequencies available for each country. LH uses two only.

DE uses/will use 3+1 weekly 3 SSA, 1 REC. I am not sure if they already started REC. This means there is only 3 weekly left.



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7944 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
Interesting though is that Gol is already larger than TAM at GIG and will continue being so. If one counts the RG operation, TAM will have have real difficulty becoming the largest airline at GIG.

I believe JJ is more insterested in increasing gradually their operations in GIG so they can offer better connections for both domestic & int'l pax flying through Rio de Janeiro. The commence of int'l services to MIA & JFK only proves this.


Now, the matter of who is bigger at GIG is not what TAM is after. Since G3/RG have more flights there, why are they pulling out of GIG-FRA???

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
2) No need to review bilateral for LH. There are three daily frequencies available for each country. LH uses two only.

Considering the latest developments, I assume it would be easier to see JJ starting this flight than LH. Thus for a revision of the bilateral would be needed. Perhaps in 2009.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7881 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
TAM 5 MIA daily (2GRU, 2GIG, MAO) and 4 JFK daily (2GRU, 2GIG).

MIA-GIG will be 2x; JFK-GIG will be 1x, with a redeye one way, a daylight the other.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
. TAM will have 55% of the frequencies allowed. RG serving MIA twice daily

Varig's plan is to be 4x daily to Miami by the end of 2008 - 2x GRU and 2x GIG (daily redeye and daylight to each).



a.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7797 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
I also heard a rumor TAM is getting 4 IL96-300 in 2009

 rotfl 

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
Interesting though is that Gol is already larger than TAM at GIG and will continue being so. If one counts the RG operation, TAM will have have real difficulty becoming the largest airline at GIG.

Your are correct. In relative terms even Webjet is bigger in GIG than TAM! TAM attention to GIG is far from a real "focus."

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
1) VARIG is no longer selling GIG-FRA in their website. I understand thereupon as they're ultimately pulling out of the route;

RG's FRA-GIG was a complete disaster. In contract, RG's operations in GRU remain good, and TAM's FRA-GRU is a resound success so far, with very high loads and yields.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7706 times:
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Quoting Donzilasse (Reply 8):
Great news about GIG/MIA! Finally an alternative to GRU. As much as I hate to see some old 767,s on that route it might be a way to get by with it as long as AA also run their old 767,s to GIG

Hi Lasse ! Really nice to see some alternatives in the near future. Be in mind (and if they really get the 763's) that should be a temporary measure which means a better aircraft will be deployed later on.

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
) VARIG is no longer selling GIG-FRA in their website. I understand thereupon as they're ultimately pulling out of the route;

RG results on the international market are FAR from profit. On November as per ANAC official numbers RG load was 47% only better than Ocean Air (12% on their sole route). Considering they were flying three routes, and one of the routes in fact received the booked pax from GIG-FRA, i should say all routes could not produce profit.
Their fares on C (US$ 2,600 Round Trip), and the fact that it's easy to find out availability even for next day flight on deep Discount Business Class, give us a bad picture.
However, Gol is re-building RG international network and due to the delay to receive some additional 763's GIG-FRA flight has been postponed (i don't expect this flight to be resumed) and also some GRU-CDG-FCO and GRU-LHR has been cancelled during the peak (very) month of December.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCmtehori From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7660 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
I also heard a rumor TAM is getting 4 IL96-300 in 2009

 liar  It's the NW DC-10's they're getting  Big grin  Big grin  Big grin  laughing 

BTW, if they lease 767's, this is going to be a very weird fleet, a mix of a few remaining Fokkers (RR powered), A319/20/21 (CFM and IAE), 330-200's (4 PW all the rest CF6), MD-11's (does anybody know their engines?) and later the 77W which I believe is GE only. I'm wondering if the costs with maintenance and crew training would be worth for JJ.



727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7647 times:
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Quoting Cmtehori (Reply 17):
BTW, if they lease 767's, this is going to be a very weird fleet, a mix of a few remaining Fokkers (RR powered),

Hori, all F100 will be returned by JJ this month and PZ during January 2008.
Also the M11's will be replaced by 77W's.

And even if they get the 763's, will also be replaced in the near future.

Maintenance costs are higher, but imagine the fact that they will increase services to the US while demand is at very high levels. And if they get a deal like M11 x 77W, would be great.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7622 times:



Quoting Cmtehori (Reply 17):
MD-11's (does anybody know their engines?)

GE


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

This leads me to the question: if LH doesn't want to start up GIG, could this move mean that JJ is interested in eventually starting a daily GIG-FRA flight as well?

User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7522 times:

I must unsay my previous hypothesis of VARIG pulling out of GIG-FRA as they've just set up again sales of GIG-FRA-GIG. Here's the schedule for a daily operation with 763 as of FEB 17 2008:

GIG 01:20 - FRA 17:20
FRA 15:15 - 23:45 GIG



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLoalq From Switzerland, joined Jan 2007, 230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7496 times:



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 21):
GIG 01:20 - FRA 17:20

Really? Now that is a strange timing...

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 21):
FRA 15:15 - 23:45 GIG

And this is even worse. Arriving at GIG around midnight...not good...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 20):
This leads me to the question: if LH doesn't want to start up GIG, could this move mean that JJ is interested in eventually starting a daily GIG-FRA flight as well?

They are both welcome, but I would really like to see LH to GIG, MUC or FRA...
Rgds.



"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7489 times:
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Quoting Brasuca (Reply 21):
I must unsay my previous hypothesis of VARIG pulling out of GIG-FRA as they've just set up again sales of GIG-FRA-GIG. Here's the schedule for a daily operation with 763 as of FEB 17 2008:

GIG 01:20 - FRA 17:20
FRA 15:15 - 23:45 GIG

It surprised me also, i won't expect they resume this flight. And a comment here... what a schedule... there's no way to use the FRA-GIG leg to any kind of connection unless you wait 6 hours which means.. No Thanks !

Quoting Loalq (Reply 22):
They are both welcome, but I would really like to see LH to GIG, MUC or FRA...
Rgds.

So do i, but it's something JJ x LH codeshare makes even harder to come true.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 20):
This leads me to the question: if LH doesn't want to start up GIG, could this move mean that JJ is interested in eventually starting a daily GIG-FRA flight as well?

If RG drops the flight and the frequencies become unused, considering JJ is now even closer to join Star Alliance, i believe such flight become a real desire looking for how JJ is trying to develop GIG as a secondary hub.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLongHaul67 From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7483 times:



Quoting Loalq (Reply 22):
And this is even worse. Arriving at GIG around midnight...not good...

I agree. Looks like they are only focusing on O/D pax as this arrival time will not allow for onward connections


25 Cmtehori : Thanks! BTW, I personally don´t believe that JJ would acquire/lease 767´s, it has nothing to do with its fleet! Best, Carlos
26 MAH4546 : Neither do MD11s and A340s. TAM doesn't care. They need quick capacity.
27 Greenair727 : From what I understand, OceanAir is aiming for this market in '08 and already has route approval. Not to say that TAM couldn't compete, but if OceanA
28 Dellatorre : IIRC, Ocean Air was suppose to start flying between Brazil & Angola in the end of 2007. What happened???? BTW O6 plans for LAX would be a extension o
29 MAH4546 : What a waste. For what reason? To pick-up another ten passengers? They won't get 5th freedom. No 5th freedom is allowed on USA-Mexico anymore.
30 Brasuca : I agree with you that RG's GIG-FRA-GIG purpose is still unclear due to this offered product oddness. Neither do I agree with some VARIG strategies, b
31 Dellatorre : This is the price they are willing to pay! Go figure!! Everybody knows that RG/GOL is only flying GIG-FRA to hold the slots. The restart in February,
32 LipeGIG : Ocean Air needs to invest more in marketing and need to focus on higher demand routes. LAX is a good alternative, but they do not provide customers w
33 C010T3 : This is just my imagination then: https://www.elancers.net/vagas/e_mostra_vaga.asp?id=258257 Why would they need 168 B767 FAs? Check here for all the
34 Beeweel15 : Does anyone know who owns the MD11's that TAM is leasing.
35 SJOtoLIR : JJ is code-sharing these flights with UA for USA-Brazil: MIA-GRU MIA-GRU-GIG JFK-GRU JFK-GRU-GIG MIA-SSA MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR They will likely follow the
36 C010T3 : The only new agreement with a carrier not from Star Alliance was with LAN. Despite having an agreement with AF, JJ is closing a new one with LH. AF h
37 Dellatorre : I think it's time JJ say goodbye AF!!! The current code-share only offer JJ pax limited destinations within France and doesn't include the Brazil-Fra
38 LipeGIG : Africa with SA will be enough IMO. Right, and i expect one pair of 77W could be used in order to replace 2 flights to CDG with a single one looking f
39 Cmtehori : Lipe, as always thank you for your feedback. Will PZ fly A320's? Wow, now I believe, it is for real! Tks!
40 C010T3 : No problem!
41 ElmoTheHobo : It's not O/D really, it the fact that yields suck. LAX-Brazil makes a whole lot of sense if it's part of a direct service to Asia, and with the trans
42 MAH4546 : Exactly. One only need to look at how Varig's performance at LAX went down the drain after the Japan tag-ons ended. There is no need for TAM or anybo
43 SJOtoLIR : Based on the current business relationship between JJ and UA, it would be interesting if UA will establish code-share cooperation with JJ in the futu
44 LipeGIG : In fact there's one A320 already flying PZ flights. Will be two by January 8, 2008. Mark, the market changed a lot since 2005. I saw several agreemen
45 Tp727 : Hello everyone, Are there any legal reason for G3/RG not codeshare? Have they asked for CADE authorization (as JJ/RG did when they operated a codesha
46 Neo : I believe CA - Brazil market is often underestimaded, demand for non-stop flights is big as it has ever been, including business pax. I recently flew
47 LipeGIG : You're right. The problem is that California-Brazil and also SEA, is a market divided between several hubs (ATL, DFW, IAH, MIA) and airlines. The bas
48 Neo : Felipe, that's right, but even though the market is split like that a non-stop LAX-GRU would offer more convenient connections to CA (SAN, PSP, FAT,
49 Nickofatlanta : I believe LanPeru currently flies daily same-plane GRU-LIM-LAX. Didn't Varig also fly this routing at one point i.e. not nonstop? This may be a better
50 LipeGIG : Yes, but you need to leave the plane in LIM on both legs for transit immigration. LIM become a busy route but also competition is hard. G3 some days
51 Dellatorre : To be honest, I always thought G3 had problems with their LIM flights. It would much wiser for GOL to leave Lamerican destinations for RG and focus i
52 ElmoTheHobo : Absolutely, though I don't have a doubt in my mind that any airline could fill up a plane load of passengers to Brazil from Los Angeles. The question
53 Neo : Why wouldn't it? You are joking right.. a charter airline?? Come one, get serious...LAX, is far from being just a leasure destination from Brazil, th
54 ElmoTheHobo : Nope. A long haul, high density carrier or a charter airline, Sure there is business traffic, but history has shown us that flights to Los Angeles fr
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