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KLM To Charge For 2-seat-rows On 747, 772 And M11  
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 21714 times:

According to http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=23684 (Dutch only) KLM is going to charge pax 50 Euro per one-way flight if they want to sit on a row that has only 2 seats in Economy Class.
The 744 and 74M have a large set of these two-seat rows in the front cabin due to the position of the galley, and some in the back due to the curvature of the cabin.
The M11 has only 2 blocks of 2 seats, due to exits or cabin shape.
The 772 has a few sets of 2-seat-rows, in the front of the Y cabin and in the back due to the curvature of the cabin.
Note that these seats can be reserved 30 hours prior to departure via the KLM website and only paid with credit-card during online check in.
The seats have no additional pitch, nor a favorable position in the aircraft (they can be near the galley or lavs), the only "advantage" is that there is no-one sitting next to your if your travel as a couple.

See http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/ for the applicable rows.

I'd be surprised if KLM is able to pre-sell any of those seats, as we're talking 100 Euro per one-way leg, that's a lot.

[Edited 2007-12-12 03:06:16]

95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 21681 times:

I agree that at 100 Euro per roundtrip these seats won´t see a lot of success. They might be popular between
honey-moon goers, though


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21600 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 1):
They might be popular between
honey-moon goers, though

Let's face it, for 200 Euros extra a whole lot of other carriers come into view that offer a superior product to KL in Y and don''t charge for this non-sense. LH and AF come to mind, but also smaller ones like SK, IB. And they operate a lot of Airbus wide-bodies with its perfect 2-4-2 seating config, so you end up together anyway.

Next step in KLM's cabin frenzy is the introduction of 3-4-3 on the 77W next year. One has to wonder what comes after that...


User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21578 times:

I wonder what the frequent flyers will say, seeing that they already get less and less of a product on KL. Maybe swicht over to AF completely...
Sorry, but KL's business plan is becoming more absurd by the day IMHO, especially compared to the other part of the AF/KL group.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21556 times:



Quoting Ushermittwoch (Reply 3):
I wonder what the frequent flyers will say, seeing that they already get less and less of a product on KL. Maybe swicht over to AF completely...

It has to be noted that Flying Blue Gold and Platinum Elite Plus members are exempted from both the 50 Euro exit-row "fee" and the 50 Euro 2-seater "fee". The same is true for other SkyTeam equivalent Elite Plus members.


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21547 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Thread starter):
I'd be surprised if KLM is able to pre-sell any of those seats, as we're talking 100 Euro per one-way leg, that's a lot.

Yet another airline going down the low cost carrier route... How incredibly cheap of KLM! I mean if these seats are near a galley or toilets it is completely unrealistic to think that people will pay for these seats... I have never been impressed by KLM's standard of service and now i'm definately sure not to fly with them again.



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4013 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21545 times:

Are they seroius? There are hardly any "tweezitters" in any of the aircraft mentioned. The only exception is the full-pax Boeing 747-400 aft section where there are 20 seats in pairs (unless KLM has the nerve to ask for 50 EUR for the "pleasure" of having a non-window/aisle "tweezitter"-seat next to the galley in the middle block on the B744/74M).

[Edited 2007-12-12 03:40:19]

User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21533 times:

I don´t get it - if the customer isn´t interested in the row that only has two seats, they are free to seat somewhere else in the plane and forget about the whole thing.

And about the 3-4-3 seating, doesn´t EK has it? I believe pax are still happily flying EK even with 3-4-3 in the 777.


User currently offlineGoAibusGo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 275 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21516 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 2):
Next step in KLM's cabin frenzy is the introduction of 3-4-3 on the 77W next year. One has to wonder what comes after that...

It looks like KLM will become like the leisure (low frills) arm of AF/KL group and Air France will be the premium product of the group.

[Edited 2007-12-12 03:45:25]

User currently offlineFFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21492 times:

I was just recently sitting in that forward 2-seat section of a 74M, the first row window seat just after the L1 door. The best economy seat in the house, in my mind. The lady in the HEL check-in changed my seat to that one from something in the rear of the plane. Yes, I would have paid $50 extra for it, but only for that particular row.

User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21452 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 6):
The only exception is the full-pax Boeing 747-400 aft section where there are 20 seats in pairs (unless KLM has the nerve to ask for 50 EUR for the "pleasure" of having a non-window/aisle "tweezitter"-seat next to the galley in the middle block on the B744/74M).

KLM has the nerves. If you don't pay, you will be able to choose any other seat during online check-in. It is choice. Do I think it's worth it? Not really. But do I think it is abnormal? No. If those seats have a (perceived) added value, then why not charge for them? You are not forced to fly KLM and people that do so are given the choice to pay more for a better seat, nothing wrong with that. KLM is not claiming those seats are "better", they just offer the possibility to pre-reserve those much-asked-for-seats for 50 Euro each. If people want to pay for that, it's fine with me.

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 7):
I don´t get it - if the customer isn´t interested in the row that only has two seats, they are free to seat somewhere else in the plane and forget about the whole thing.

Exactly. KLM is not forcing anyone to choose these seats. And as stated, it's a very small number of seats on every plane anyway.

Quoting GoAibusGo (Reply 8):
It looks like KLM will become like leisure (low frills) arm of AF/KL group and Air France will be the premium product of the group.

No. But KLM is very serious about staying in business and proving to Paris they're moneymakers, best to be left alone. KLM is always searching for inventive ways to generate extra revenue. No-one is ever forced to fly KLM, and KLM clearly has found a very solid proposition in the airline business. It's not the best there is, it's generally not the most expensive either. So as long as pax judge KLM as "value for money" and "you get what you pay for" I think this is fine.
KLM will never be a low-cost airline or offer sub-standard service levels (like pay for your meal or buy luggage allowance) and is investing in fitting it's Y cabins with PTV for example. KLM just realizes that you can't please everyone at the some time and choices have to be made. It's product is becoming "simpler", I agree, but we all have the choice to fly our preferred carriers, so why complain?
I'd rather see a healthy KLM with 3-4-3 abreast in the 77W than having some Swissair or Sabena (Alitalia, SK, etc) debacle. Aer Lingus has made a similar daring choice, they did what's best for them and not what's "expected" by some whining travelers.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 5):
I have never been impressed by KLM's standard of service and now i'm definately sure not to fly with them again.

Off course there is a lot to be improved on the KLM Y product, but you are the one that makes that choice. You are free to choose any other carrier. Beforehand, you were never guaranteed a "two-seater" or "exit-row", so I think KLM is very fair with these practices, it's not hidden somewhere between the lines but can be found on their website. KLM has an excellent proposition to many travelers and their concept seems to work for them and a lot of people that fly KLM. Of course there are better carriers, and I can understand you care about that, but there are as many people that want to get from A to B in an affordable way.

[Edited 2007-12-12 04:01:30]

User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2259 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21377 times:

Now what will happen if by the time I get to check in without a reserved seat , only available seats are those that require the surcharge. Will I have to pay?


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21360 times:

Hi!

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 5):
I have never been impressed by KLM's standard of service and now i'm definately sure not to fly with them again.

Well, I don't have nothing to complain about KL..Infact I think they offer a similar product to any other european airline, of course nothing to be compared with the asian/middle eastern airlines but...the fact is that if I need to get anywhere in the world KL can give me good connections and good prices!!!
Another point is we shouldn't say "never" about flying the airlines...even if I was mad with KL and one day they had an excelent fare to a place I was going, and if the plane was an MD11??? I think I "would forgive" KL and fly with them again!
Now I have a question, when I flew SWISS MD11 the Economy configuration they had was 3-4-2, I see that KL have 3-3-3 I wonder what's best...what do you think?
regards


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21340 times:



Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 11):
Now what will happen if by the time I get to check in without a reserved seat , only available seats are those that require the surcharge. Will I have to pay?

No. If loads require those seats to be taken, they are assigned following normal procedures.
So, those two-seaters can be assigned for free at check-in desks if there are no other seats available. KLM is charging 50 Euro for the right to pre-reserve those seats during online check-in, so you can be sure you will get these seats and don't have to show up at the airport 5 hours in advance and bribe the check-in staff Big grin
If there is an equipment change, or for any other reason you were forced to take another seat, KLM will refund the money you paid during online check-in. This is also the reason why it can be only done online and with a creditcard (and not at the check-in counter at the airport).


User currently offlineIkarus2006 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21339 times:

If the extra would be charged for better pitch or better IFE or seat width, I would agree. The extra charged for sitting in a two seat row sounds a bit odd.

If I pay an extra I want a clearly identifiable added value - the fact KL says a two seat row is an added value in itself is something very open to discussion and evaluation, in my humble opinion. And beside this, 100 Euro for a return?

What is next? I will have to pay more to have an aisle seat?


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21326 times:



Quoting CV990 (Reply 12):
Now I have a question, when I flew SWISS MD11 the Economy configuration they had was 3-4-2, I see that KL have 3-3-3 I wonder what's best...what do you think?

KLM had 3-4-2 and opted for 3-3-3 because of the perceived benefit for pax and to enable the M11 Y cabin for PTV fitting. I think having the same number of devices per PTV control-unit keeps costs lower. I might be wrong though.


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21314 times:



Quoting Ikarus2006 (Reply 14):
What is next? I will have to pay more to have an aisle seat?

Don't give KLM ideas  Wink
Fortunately, there are too many aisle seats to make this work. You'd have a very good chance of getting an aisle seat but just showing up late at the check-in at the airport and get an aisle seat for free. KLM surely doesn't want to stimulate people to arrive late at check-in, and hence I don't think we'll ever see such drastic measures.


User currently offlineAUA747 From Aruba, joined Jul 2006, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21297 times:



Quoting GoAibusGo (Reply 8):
It looks like KLM will become like the leisure (low frills) arm of AF/KL group and Air France will be the premium product of the group.

Agree

Its a pitty KLM is taking that road. I don't mind they charging for the "preferred" seats, but they definitely need to improve their product in economy. It wouldn't surprise me the next that KL will take is to charge for alcohol beverages.


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21277 times:

Hi PHKLM!

Thanks a lot for your answer, appreciated!!!  thumbsup 
Regards


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4341 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21264 times:



Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 11):
Now what will happen if by the time I get to check in without a reserved seat , only available seats are those that require the surcharge. Will I have to pay?

Of course they can't force you to do that, so no. You only have to pay if you specifically want and choose these 'special' seats over the others. Same like UK charters where you have to pay a surcharge for seat reservations, but as not many people do that, you can still get preferable seats like windows or aisles without surcharge.

Quoting CV990 (Reply 12):
they had was 3-4-2, I see that KL have 3-3-3 I wonder what's best...what do you think?

The Swiss/Swissair seating arrangement is innovative, as it's the best of both worlds; avoiding the 2-5-2 seat of hell in the middle, and also the opportunity to sit near a window and aisle if you travel with three persons, basically offering choices for any preference; couples can sit together without strangers, families of 3 and 4 can sit together etc. The only drawback is that the cabin isn't symmetric, even in weight/trim that has to be counter balanced.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21251 times:



Quoting AUA747 (Reply 17):
Its a pitty KLM is taking that road. I don't mind they charging for the "preferred" seats, but they definitely need to improve their product in economy. It wouldn't surprise me the next that KL will take is to charge for alcohol beverages.

Sure it's a pity. But it makes business sense. KLM is really making very rational decisions that are not lead by emotions or pride. KLM proved over the past years it is looking at these issues very sober and focused.
KLM has drawn a core strategy and is following that strategy, it focuses on slightly-lower yielding pax that connect thru the attractive AMS hub. It prefers fleet optimization above schedule-optimization (short turn-arounds) and other things that can be perceived as a "deteriorating" product. But this chosen strategy works for KLM.
Please look at the examples of other airlines in Europe, once they focused on a particular strategy results started to improve drastically. You can't please everyone. Sure, I'd love to fly in a 2-3-2 Y seat with 40 inch pitch on a 772 with AVOD PTV and have 3 course meals and pay less than an average other carrier, but I think we'll see the end of KLM sooner than later with such a product. It is about making choices, like Finnair did, like Aer Lingus did, like SWISS did, like BMI did. These choices are sometimes leading to pax choosing other carriers, but that's fine, because overall they work and the bottom line is rock solid.


User currently offlineSKA380 From Norway, joined Jun 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 21252 times:

Is it just me, or is KLM looking more and more like a low cost carrier?
You can't get away from the fact that this is a very typical low cost thing to do.

Yes, PHKLM, you do have a point that its up to anyone to choose to pay for this. But what happens on a fully booked flight?? There you might have a couple who has payed 100 euros for their seat, while the couple sitting in front of them has gotten the seats for free, simply because it was the only available seats on the aircraft.. This is not a very fair way to treat your customers, is it ?

I used to fly KLM on almost all my trips, but never again after i was taken away my emg. exit seat that i had booked online, just because i didn't wanna pay 50 euros for it. And it was given for free to some random passengers after boarding, since they are required to have people sitting there.
Witch is exactly why i have moved my business elsewhere. My next 2 trips to asia are booked with Finnair and LH, both of with i can choose whatever seat i want free of charge.  Smile


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 21181 times:

Quoting SKA380 (Reply 21):
Is it just me, or is KLM looking more and more like a low cost carrier?
You can't get away from the fact that this is a very typical low cost thing to do.

KLM is not turning into a LCC. I can't get away from the fact this is thinking "out of the box" that is mainly only done at other LCC's, true. A lot of airlines have seats they give away to FF Elite pax, KLM enables non-Elites to buy these seats. Fair choice, isn't it?

Quoting SKA380 (Reply 21):
This is not a very fair way to treat your customers, is it ?

Yes. Because the couple that paid 100 Euros was well aware of the fact they had the choice not to pay that money and try their luck at the airport. They were never forced to do so. At numerous airlines around the world on every flight Elite members are seated in a middle seat while first-timers are seated at the exit rows. It's inevitable and happens every day. You can be upset about this, but think about it rationally. It doesn't make sense. If you want to pay 100 Euro to get those seats you want, your economic utility doesn't go down when other people get those seats for free. I mean, even if the pax next to me was given 10.000 Euros by KLM to take that flight, my 600 Euro ticket wasn't going to be less valuable at once. I paid that money to get from A to B, and at the time of purchase I found it reasonable. Makes no sense to complain about it. KLM is very open about giving out those seats for free: it happens when required. So it's no surprises and a fair treatment to pax.

Quoting SKA380 (Reply 21):
My next 2 trips to asia are booked with Finnair and LH, both of with i can choose whatever seat i want free of charge.

Nice example. AY has 3-4-3 abreast in the M11 and LH no PTV in Y. No to flame them, but these airlines have made choices as well that work for them. AY has realized it is better of serving tourists on routes to Asia in 10 abreast on the M11, that is what makes money for them! Good decision AY. No matter how much you can hate 10 abreast in the M11, it works for Finnair. LH has no PTV in Y, and for a long time that worked for them! Kudos to LH for saving much money, while still offering an attractive product that worked for them. See my point?

[Edited 2007-12-12 04:41:35]

User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 21135 times:



Quoting SKA380 (Reply 21):
Is it just me, or is KLM looking more and more like a low cost carrier?

My sentiment exactly... I mean KLM offers a substandard economy and business product on european and intercontinental flights... I would normally choose British Airways if i can but of course that isnt the point of this thread...

A legacy carrier such as KLM shouldn't be charging for these seats... I can understand that an airline like Sterling do that because they are low cost carriers.. I can't think of any other "traditional" carrier in Europe that does this...

Give me BA any day... Nice food and good service.. also nice new leather seats with fully adjustable headreast in Economy on European flights! Anyone else seen them??

Although for Asian flights i would always choose SIA.



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
User currently offlineLongHaul67 From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 21136 times:

I fly on KL's 74M to BKK on a regular basis. But I have decided to leave KL from now due to their out-dated product. Especially I find the economy seats uncomfortable. Their business product is mediocre at best compared to the competition. There is no way I would pay a cent extra for a 2-seater. They really need new planes to upgrade their product - fast!

25 Vfw614 : I see the point if we are talking about a two-seat row "window/aisle". However, in the B744 half of the two seat rows are in the middle block, with o
26 Kappel : Yes, but EK offers extra seat pitch, IIRC 34", KL won't. It'll be the standard 31" pitch most likely. Actually, IMHO it is a perfectly standard produ
27 MEA-707 : What exactly makes KLM substandard? Unlike SAS, KLM has nice sandwiches and drinks incl alcohol on European flights. Intercontinental flights are sta
28 QatarA340 : One word: CHEAP filler filler flller
29 Post contains images PHKLM : Or smart. Time will tell. Fortunately, there are more important things in life
30 Sh0rtybr0wn : So Cheap. I've sat in one of those 2 seat rows and it wasnt worth any extra money. Airlines could get more creative than that. Wait until you have pay
31 FoxBravo : On the 744, I do like those pairs of seats in the front of Y along the galley wall--in addition to not having to sit next to a stranger when traveling
32 Post contains images Trinxat : Yes, but going the way of an LCC, c'mon no serious airline with a bit of self pride does such things. You are completely free to defend "your" airlin
33 SKAirbus : If you are trying to throw SAS at me it isnt working because i never used it as an example... But i have flown on KLM many times because it was the c
34 SK601 : In general I agree with what PHKLM said about this subject. Many of you seem to think it's a ridiculous concept. Well, the passengers are the once who
35 JMBWEEBOY : Is there any end to the "nickel and diming" of airline passengers ? Any wonder why most people hate to fly now ?! JMBWEEBOY
36 Post contains images Jacobin777 : given the current Euro/Dollar exchange, it would be $73.43... .... ....
37 Post contains images Dallasnewark : This is pretty pathetic, what makes KLM any different from Southwest? This is as low as it gets, congrats KLM, you have hit the bottom. From here on,
38 PHKLM : Well, not per default. AMS is served by a lot of foreign carriers as well. Most Dutch people have a love-hate relationship with KLM. We are proud of
39 SK601 : No, I don't think so, but.......airfares are still lower than many years ago (especially if you take inflation into account). Basically, more and mor
40 Post contains images PlunaCRJ : Really? Try choosing a seat in First Class KL could market these special seats as "Economy Premium" or something like that, offer a few extra perks s
41 BOAC911 : If I remember correctly, wasn't it also KLM that added 2 or 3 rows of seats in front of 747 wing exits (L3 & R3) to maximize profits? This was about
42 BOAC911 : Reading this thread has made made dread my upcoming flight on KLM. My first time ever with them. I will be flying FRA-AMS-IAH in February, in a busine
43 BOAC911 : To be fair, I must add though, that it is not for any reason that KLM remains the world's oldest airline (albeit with a partner)
44 Caribb : Humm.. I don't like the direction they are taking here. Do they offer discounted prices for seats near washrooms or those against bulkheads that don't
45 PHKLM : Sorry, but you make a fool out of yourself. Really. As if you know something about KLM World Business Class after reading this thread that you didn't
46 Splitz : Wow......talkin' about trying to increase revenue huh? Geez!
47 Post contains images Lima : Pity that they are going obsesive to get more money on everything and damaging their image Next: pay to go to the toilet, like it is common in many pl
48 SKAirbus : Yep then they'll charge for a window seat or an aisle seat leaving the only charge-free seats centre seats...
49 AApilot2b : Just another reason why KLM is not at the top of my list for travel. You can only nickel and dime people so much before they take their business somew
50 Mdecloux : This is a horible idea. I have sat in the front part of KL's 747 (just before they had us deplane because of a broken Engine). The seat was not comfor
51 Lima : Pity but again the company provides a good service, realiable in terms of times and their inflight crews are probably one of the best points. Would be
52 Post contains images AApilot2b : Ha! Next KLM will have seats that fold down in to the isles like the mini buses in 3rd world countries.... After all, its not about the passenger expe
53 Post contains images CPH757 : That is indeed a good idea. Making a premium on the most requested seats. The have a lot of data in their computer systems, so it's pretty easy to ma
54 Diezel : Common guys, it's just a business case! If KLM can get more money out of it, good for them. It will eventually lead to better connections, more flight
55 SSTsomeday : I'm repeatedly surprised and disgusted at how creative airlines are being in creating non-ticket revenue. Flying (in coach) is becoming more and more
56 UN_B732 : Are SkyTeam elites exempted from this ridiculous charge? This is just ridiculous. I can't see a stranger way to increase revenue, or this venture succ
57 Post contains links Viscount724 : That's not the "middle block" on the 744/74M, it's the 2nd cabin (the "B zone") immediately behind business cabin in the nose. And I've always consid
58 BOAC911 : Yes. I think we all have over-reacted a little. However I believe what really bothers a lot of us, is that this is happening at a full-service, full-
59 SSTsomeday : They should be. I am the CUSTOMER. This is a terrible attitude. What's happening to our Western culture? Service based not on "the customer is always
60 Baw716 : What is KLM thinking? This is about the stupidist idea I have ever heard. Not only will people not pay for these seats, it will drive people away from
61 Post contains images Hardiwv : I think you called me. And my opinion: complete non-sense. There are only a few advantages of being a Platinum member, the most important in my opini
62 SeaBosDca : I'm very surprised by all the replies blaming this type of decision on the airlines. Customers indicate through their purchasing decisions that they a
63 Seabosdca : See my reply 62. This sort of move is very much based on the attitude of "the customer is always right." Keeping luxuries and charging higher base fa
64 Schipholjfk : What is happening to my beloved KLM? This is retarded. Those of you who have traveled on KLM metal know that "two seaters" add nothing of value especi
65 Schipholjfk : Third world? Try Paris metro and you will see there are fold-away seats as well. Third world is a term from the past that hardly applies to a lot of
66 Caribb : I work for a Dutch company and I am in touch with my colleagues there every working day. I'm well aware of the Dutch work ethic and where it's taken
67 HB-IWC : I hear you, but NW, unlike KLM, has also awebsite that is in perfect working order and allows, among other things, its elite passengers to pick these
68 Post contains images PHKLM : I understand what you mean; those seats where previously given to elite members, and although that does not provide extra revenue, it might keep cust
69 CPH757 : Come on...off course they need to make profit. Try read the rest of my previous post. Basically this decision makes everyone better off....that's har
70 SKAirbus : Exactly... it seems to me that KLM is going to become the low cost arm of AF-KLM or maybe they are trying to go bust... Of course as a customer we ha
71 Post contains images AApilot2b : You obviously don't travel much. Either that, or you choose to see only what you want to see.... Don't know... don't care as this is way off topic an
72 PlunaCRJ : Ar you saying KL doesn´t maintain their airplanes as they should? (!). Please elaborate. And.. are PTVs so important? Personally, when I choose an a
73 SKAirbus : Well now that PTVs are common place in most of the world's airlines, people's standards with regards to inflight entertainment are better... If i had
74 BOAC911 : It might look like that, but by next week we'll know for sure who will take that honor....
75 Viscount724 : And that strategy has worked very well for KL over the years.
76 EDICHC : I would say these two quotes are somwhat incompatible despite both supporting KL's new charge. So is the customer saying please take a little more mo
77 Post contains images KaiGywer : Note that it doesn't apply to the 330, so if you want your two-seater, choose a flight on the 330, then connect on NW if flying to the US. I was give
78 VgnAtl747 : IMHO being last off the aircraft is a reasonable price to pay for those seats. I happen to like them, but I don't know if I'd pay extra for them...
79 Seabosdca : The customer is saying "Lower my fare by any means necessary." Charging for extras and frills allows an airline to lower the base fare. That's why th
80 EDICHC : No they do it to maximise revenue, do we see KL's fares being reduced as a result of this 'initiative'? I think not. I'm just surprised there are so
81 SSTsomeday : Air Canada is a Legacy already doing that. I was tempted by a "bargain" (cross border) fare on AC's website, only to discover that I would receive on
82 GFFgold : Having endured (and it takes some endurance) KLM's haul from CGK-AMS a few times in Y, I'd much rather pay EUR50 extra for a modern and comfortable in
83 Post contains links Persotvik : AY har 10 abreast in the aft section of the Economy Class on their MD11's. The section behind Business Class is 9 abreast. Have a look: http://www.fi
84 LarSPL : This extra fee is only applicable if you want to pre-book that seat. if you don't have a preferrance you stil can get that seat without paying for it
85 PHKLM : Yes, but those 9-abreast seats are given to the passengers that have book the higher fare-classes. When you buy Economy Discounted you will be seated
86 Persotvik : Don't say that, a friend who was travelling HEL-BKK-HEL on a very cheap special summerfare reserved a seat for himself and his wife in the forward pa
87 PHKLM : I have no personal experience, but a friend of mine booked AMS-HEL-BKK and was unable to pre-select any seat in the 9 abreast cabin. Finnair call-cen
88 CPH757 : So whatever farebasis you are travelling on, you can choose seats wherever you want in Economy class.[/quote] That's not true. I have tried to pre-re
89 Andaman : I have managed to get in to the front cabin every time, I have just done the check in early enough, it's seldom fully booked compeletely.
90 Avek00 : Only ONE of the two AMS-IAH flights is Privatair; the morning AMS-IAH is operated with a 747 Combi aircraft.
91 PHKLM : That is true. Coming from FRA however I suspect the 10h10 flight is a little early, because it involves leaving FRA at 6h50 to be able to connect in
92 Post contains images Trinxat : Well, if you read carefully some of the above posts, it seems that there are indeed some customers very much happy to give up PTVs, premium seats, an
93 Viscount724 : I was once offered an "upgrade" from Y to Europe Select on a full KL 737 and I refused as it meant going from an aisle seat to a middle seat!
94 Post contains images Malaysia : Ironically I was placed in one of these seats as a non rev with girlfriend in the past. 74M AMS-BKK and we had the front row and it was 2 seats. Free
95 Ktachiya : Oh my gosh. Did NW propose doing this KL? I know NW started charging $10 extra for exit seats and a majority of the members on that thread were flamin
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