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Spotter Tip - A330 Engines  
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 61
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Hullo,

I've struggled to tell the difference for a long time between the different engines on the A330.

The Rolls ones are obvious, but how do you tell between the CF6 and the PW? Are there different variants that look different, or is it just a case of remembering who has what?

Rgds,

CM


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2699 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

The CF-6 has a long, sharp cone coming out of the exhaust;


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The PW has a "blunt" exhaust section;


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Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1403 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

CF6-80 are easy to spot ´cause they have a cone protruding from the nozzle
while all the PW (apart from those installed on the 777) don´t.
Just check PWs equipped A330 like Korean Air, MD11s like JAL or Swiss
and compare with GE powered A330 like Air France and MD11 like KLM

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3458 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
or is it just a case of remembering who has what?

Often, this is the best way. I personally have even more trouble with telling apart the CF6 and PW on the 747-400's. Anyhow...

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Photo © Philippe Jeandy


NWA, now with the largest A330 fleet in the world, has been a long-time PW customer, and has the PW4168A on all their A330's. AF has always been a die-hard GE customer, and has the CF6 on their 330's.

The best dead-giveaway I can offer, is the aft part of the engine. The CV6 has that huge spike thing (is it obvious I'm not an engineer?!?), while the PW does not. Unfortunately I don't really know how to explain it any better than that, haha.....so hopefully the pictures speak for themselves.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Damn!! You guys beat me to it!!

User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

Is there a reason why then RR makes there engines exaushts so different?? I know they look cool but is there an actual advantage to the shapes of the RRs??

User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1403 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3423 times:

On the Boeing 747 and 767 it is actually more difficult to tell them apart since
both GE and PW looks very similar (with no cone in the exhaust)

Is it true that NW has the biggest A330 fleet in the world?
How many do they have?
How does it compare with the likes of CX and EK?

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

Also, if you happen to know the model number ahead of time, that's how Airbus designates their planes. Boeing assigns model numbers based on the ordering customer, but Airbus assigns model numbers based on aircraft series, and then engine type.

-202 = CF6-80E1A4
-203 = CF6-80E1A3
-223/323 = PW4168A
-243/343 = Trent 772-B60
-301 = CF6-80E1A2
-321 = PW4164
-322 = PW4168
-341 = Trent 768-60
-342 = Trent 772-60
-343 = Trent 772B-60/C-60

Ex- All of the NW A330's are A330-223 or A330-323, as they all are equipped with the PW4168A's.

Quoting Steman (Reply 6):
Is it true that NW has the biggest A330 fleet in the world?How many do they have?How does it compare with the likes of CX and EK?

Yes, they do. There was a thread about it awhile back I'll see if I can't dig it up here. Anyhow, current fleets of your mentioned airlines are:

NWA-
11x A332
21x A333

EK-
29x A332

CX-
29x A333

QR-
20x A332
10x A333


User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1403 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3366 times:

Transpac787,
very informing,
thank you

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 61
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3366 times:

So there are no pointy cone PWs?


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2699 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3266 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
So there are no pointy cone PWs

Not for the A330, but PW installations on the B777 for example, do have pointy exhaust cones;


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Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3250 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
So there are no pointy cone PWs?

The only PW motors you'll see with the exhaust cones are on the 777. The PW4077 and PW4090 both have them.

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Photo © Steve Flint



All other "modern" PW engines do not. PW on UPS MD11:

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Photo © Michael Carter



PW4056 on NW 744:

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Photo © Je89 W.



PW4060 on UA 763:

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Photo © Andres Contador



User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1403 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3197 times:

To complicate the things,
GE´s CF6-80 installed on B767 and B747 do not have the pointy cone either.


User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1192 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

Here's another comparison involving the Airbus A300-600R:
UPS A306, PW4058

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Photo © Mike Paschal


AA A306, CF6-80C2

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Photo © Felix Bahamonde - PR Planespotters



Quoting Steman (Reply 13):
To complicate the things,
GE´s CF6-80 installed on B767 and B747 do not have the pointy cone either.

That point cone is the exhaust cone. And very good observation...
AA B763ER

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Photo © Paul Markman


UA B763ER

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Photo © Airsnaps - WorldAirlineImages


I'm usually able to pick out different engines based on their sounds. However, the PW4000 on the A330, A300, 744, and 767 sound nearly identical during takeoff to the CF6-80 series - the fan growl is ever so slightly different; sometimes I can barely tell the difference, but usually I can't. They do sound a little different when landing, so its easier to tell which engine when spotting approaches. On the other hand, all 3 777 engines are easy to tell apart.


User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 576 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3053 times:



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 5):
Is there a reason why then RR makes there engines exaushts so different?? I know they look cool but is there an actual advantage to the shapes of the RRs??

Interesting question, I would like to hear the answer.


User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Sorry for being dim here but what does the RR engine look like compared to the other two? Does it have a pointy cone exhaust bit?

Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlinePenPusher From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Hi All
The correct name for the Pointy thing on the CF6 Engines is an AFT Centerbody, I will not bore you with the part number, don't want to be seen as a complete Geek !!


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2892 times:



Quoting 747fan (Reply 14):
UPS A306, PW4058

They're actually PW4158's. Pratt & Whitney has specific designations between aircraft types for engines. The first number designates the series.....2XXX, 4XXX, etc. The second number designates whether it is an Airbus or Boeing engine. Boeing is 0, Airbus is 1. The final two numbers designate the thrust-rating. Examples:

PW2037: 2000 series engine, for Boeing, 37k thrust rate
PW4168: 4000 series engine, for Airbus, 68k thrust rate

So, it would be "impossible" to have a PW4058 on an Airbus, it would have to be a PW4158.

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 16):
Sorry for being dim here but what does the RR engine look like compared to the other two? Does it have a pointy cone exhaust bit?


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Photo © Hans Schulze


I personally find the RR motors on the A330 to be horrifically ugly, and the PW and GE engines look far better. IMO, the Trent 892 and 895 look far better, the RR's on the 777, despite having the smallest fan diameter offered on the 777.

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User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1005 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2860 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 18):
The second number designates whether it is an Airbus or Boeing engine. Boeing is 0, Airbus is 1. The final two numbers designate the thrust-rating. Examples:

Correct, and if it's a MD, the number 4. Hence the PW 4462 on the MD-11 for instance.


raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2838 times:



Quoting PenPusher (Reply 17):
Hi All
The correct name for the Pointy thing on the CF6 Engines is an AFT Centerbody, I will not bore you with the part number, don't want to be seen as a complete Geek !!

..nothing wrong with being a "geek" here...we already have a few of them and they are highly regarded and respected. Wink

The more information which can be provided the more we learn and appreciate.. Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineFlipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2785 times:
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Quoting Albird87 (Reply 5):
Is there a reason why then RR makes there engines exaushts so different?? I know they look cool but is there an actual advantage to the shapes of the RRs??

I asked my lecturer and he said it was mainly due to helping with reducing noise and directing flow better.

Fred


User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2715 times:



Quoting Raggi (Reply 18):
Correct, and if it's a MD, the number 4. Hence the PW 4462 on the MD-11 for instance.

GE does something similar on several of their engines for instance the CF6-80C2s if the 2 is followed by a B it is for Boeing, A for Airbus, D for McD. I am not sure what K is for. The GE90 is the same but there are only B models. Also on the CF6-80C2 if you see and F, e.g. B8F it is a FADEC engine


User currently onlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4719 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2677 times:



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 5):
Is there a reason why then RR makes there engines exaushts so different?? I know they look cool but is there an actual advantage to the shapes of the RRs??

Well, actually many RR engines have pointed exhausts, e.g. the Trent 500, 800, 900 and 1000. Among the RR high-bypass engines, only the Trent 700 and the RB.211-535E series as well as the RB.211-524G/H series have a "mixer nozzle". Correct me if I'm wrong!

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 7):

To simplify this a bit, here are all the engine codes in the Airbus model designator A3xx-x_x:

0 = GE
1 = CFM
2 = P&W
3 = IAE
4 = RR
6 = EA (Engine Alliance)

Does anybody know why 5 is unoccupied? The best explanation I can come up with: 5 is used for Europrop International, the engine provider for the A400M.

Quoting Raggi (Reply 18):
Correct, and if it's a MD, the number 4. Hence the PW 4462 on the MD-11 for instance.

And if it's an Ilyushin, the number 3 is used, e.g. the PW2337 on the IL-96M.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineFruitbat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 552 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2491 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 17):
I personally find the RR motors on the A330 to be horrifically ugly, and the PW and GE engines look far better.

In that case it's fairly certain that Airlines are buying on the basis of operating performance and economics not looks......

....which brings me to the best way of telling them apart......watch as they go overhead.....

RR.....not RR.....RR......not RR.....RR......not RR.......RR...... etc etc

(except in China where it's RR.......RR.......RR.........RR.........RR)



 Big grin  duck 



Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
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