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Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA  
User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1421 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13233 times:

Virgin America just annouced service begining 3/18/08 3 flights a day to each city.


The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
152 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSeabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5854 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13170 times:

This ought to shake things up a bit! Something that needed to happen, especially in the LAX-SEA market.

User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13139 times:

Their route map is already updated.

http://www.virginamerica.com/va/info...howcheckInOption&pageName=routeMap


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13095 times:



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 1):
especially in the LAX-SEA market.

LAX-SEA is far from a non competitive market. The route has 3 airlines already with nonstops by AS-UA-DL while folks like SWA also offer quite a few seats one-stop via the Bay Area.

If anything SFO-SEA might need the service more as its not only a larger market but served by two carriers AS-UA if you dont want to count all the SWA flights across the Bay.

Like VXs other route selections they walk into the middle crowded and well served market.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13037 times:



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 1):
This ought to shake things up a bit! Something that needed to happen, especially in the LAX-SEA market.

I will absolutely try this one.  Smile



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFreequentFlier From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13024 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
LAX-SEA is far from a non competitive market. The route has 3 airlines already with nonstops by AS-UA-DL while folks like SWA also offer quite a few seats one-stop via the Bay Area.

If anything SFO-SEA might need the service more as its not only a larger market but served by two carriers AS-UA if you dont want to count all the SWA flights across the Bay.

Like VXs other route selections they walk into the middle crowded and well served market.

 checkmark 

Not sure the logic of any of their network frankly. Seems like it's to go into mostly crowded markets and hope for the best. They seem to be under the impression that since they offer PTVs (and plugs as their website frequently reminds us) everything will be fine. B6 has some logic behind its past growth, VX - so far, not so much.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12962 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Like VXs other route selections they walk into the middle crowded and well served market.

There aren't really a lot of markets that can fill multiple A320's a day and don't already have substantial competition. Pretty much every route VX launches is going to be a route that is already pretty well served.

I thought MIA was supposed to be the next market, but I guess not. I wouldn't be surprised if VX is a little anxious about announcing another transcon route with fuel prices as high as they are.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12916 times:



Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 5):
Not sure the logic of any of their network frankly. Seems like it's to go into mostly crowded markets and hope for the best. They seem to be under the impression that since they offer PTVs (and plugs as their website frequently reminds us) everything will be fine. B6 has some logic behind its past growth, VX - so far, not so much.

There's not much doubt that the SEA-LAX/SFO markets are fairly well served, but in this case I think VX is hoping to capitalize on perceived discontent w/ service levels. AS has had some well publicized service burps over the last couple years, and no matter how big a fan you are of AS (like me), you can't deny that the service is no where near what it was a few years ago.
My prediction is that many people will try it, some will make the switch, but AS will compete well on price, and in the end, price rules for the vast majority of travelers, meaning that just as they did with WN, AS will hold its own, and the two airlines will co-exist. I think if anyone takes a hit in these markets it will be UA. With their declining share in the region and no other strong Star partner here in Seattle, incentives to stick w/ United are lacking.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineGreenguy01 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12827 times:

Isn't it odd that there is no press release and they are selling tickets and have updated their website?

I can't wait to see what the WN response will be. I think that VX is definetly stirring the pot with WN.



Never argue with an idiot. They drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12771 times:



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 7):
but AS will compete well on price,

UA and AS have the nearly the same fares on the route. Sometimes, UA is even cheaper. UA has a vast international and domestic network out of SFO, along with many, many domestic destinations that AS and VX cannot match. UA will do just fine. Maybe a loss of some price-sensitive very low yield occasional O & D fliers, but otherwise they'll do fine with their Star Alliance members and their own huge Mileage Plus following.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12564 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):

I thought MIA was supposed to be the next market, but I guess not. I wouldn't be surprised if VX is a little anxious about announcing another transcon route with fuel prices as high as they are.

Miami's coming. They've already hired a station manager. It has more to do with lack of aircraft right now. Though, obviously, if fuel prices keep going higher that might give them second thoughts about adding new trans-cons to any market.



a.
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12522 times:

As a frequent flier from Seattle to SFO i'm EXCITED!! I've always loved AS for the last 15 years even QX as they are adding more flights to the Bay Area thruogh PDX but I just don't have anymore faith in AS service anymore. It's all gone downhill for AS. Virgin America is going to do great in SEA!!

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12393 times:



Quoting Greenguy01 (Reply 8):
I can't wait to see what the WN response will be.

More likely what the AS response would be since SEA is their BIG backyard rather than WN's response.

Quoting Greenguy01 (Reply 8):
I think that VX is definately stirring the pot with WN.

Disagree. I think VX is going after AS rather than WN. I hope this is a huge wake-up call for AS since the service on AS has been declining as of late. Flame me all you want for that, but there are numerous threads on this already.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31433 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12267 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 9):
UA has a vast international and domestic network out of SFO, along with many, many domestic destinations that AS and VX cannot match.

AS codeshares with a slew of OneWorld and SkyTeam members.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12261 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
AS codeshares with a slew of OneWorld and SkyTeam members.

Yep. You can even earn elite quallies on AS for CO. I always forget this fact...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12240 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
AS codeshares with a slew of OneWorld and SkyTeam members.

 checkmark  True.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
You can even earn elite quallies on AS for CO.

 checkmark  Again, True...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
I always forget this fact...

Dude, that is what a pen and paper is for...write it down to remind you next time! LOL!  rotfl 



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12173 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
LAX-SEA is far from a non competitive market. The route has 3 airlines already with nonstops by AS-UA-DL while folks like SWA also offer quite a few seats one-stop via the Bay Area.

I thought DL pulled out of the LAX-SEA route. They were first using RJs, then switched to a 738, I believe. Every time I check the schedules, it seems that UA is less and less dedicated to the LAX-SEA flights, some days, only offering three flights. On another note, has WN made mention of flying into SFO from SEA?


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12152 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Though, obviously, if fuel prices keep going higher that might give them second thoughts about adding new trans-cons to any market.

Perhaps that's true, but many of the features they offer to differentiate their product probably won't drive purchase decisions for most travelers on stage lengths under 90 minutes. How much value do TV, movies, food-for-sale, or first class add on routes like SFO-LAX, SFO-SAN, or SFO-SEA? How much more will factors like frequent flyer programs and better schedules give an advantage to incumbents like UA, AS, or WN?

Moreover, the number of dense short-haul routes (<1000 mi) that exist from SFO are in total about a dozen (including the alternate L.A. Basin airports), and they pretty much would be stuck in a fight with both UA and WN (from OAK/SJC) on all of them.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Like VXs other route selections they walk into the middle crowded and well served market.

Not just that, but also well-stimulated in terms of low fare availability. I don't see them growing these markets significantly, and as I said above, I don't believe the on-board amenities will win in these markets over fares and schedules.


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1421 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12022 times:

http://www.virginamerica.com/va/news...n.do?method=showNewsMore&pageName=


The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9826 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12021 times:

I just saw on King5 tv in seattle that they said VX will start and fly up to 7 flights each day between SEA and SFO / LAX. I don't know where the discrepancy is, but 7 flights is a lot.

I'm really curious if AS will retaliate against VX. VX is now entering 2 of their 5 biggest markets. AS didn't do much to DL's 3 RJs between SEA and LAX, but other than that AS lives in a happy medium by dominating UA on the SEA-LAX route and being very comparable to UA on SEA-SFO.

[Edited 2007-12-12 12:52:46]

[Edited 2007-12-12 12:56:56]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11984 times:



Quoting Mason (Reply 16):
I thought DL pulled out of the LAX-SEA route.

Running 2x ERJ.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 19):
curious if AS will retaliate against VX. VX is now entering 2 of their 5 biggest routes.

 checkmark  From a previous post of mine. AS top-10 O&D markets -- 6 of 10 are SEA-SoCal or SEA-Bay Area

City / Daily one-way O&D pax / Avg. Yield
1 Las Vegas - Seattle/Tacoma 842 / 13.2
2 Los Angeles - Seattle/Tacoma 750 / 13.7
3 Seattle/Tacoma - Santa Ana 611 / 14.1
4 Seattle/Tacoma - San Diego 588 / 14.4
5 Phoenix - Seattle/Tacoma 553 / 11.2
6 Seattle/Tacoma - San Jose 550 / 14.6
7 Seattle/Tacoma - Spokane 508 / 35.1
8 Oakland - Seattle/Tacoma 476 / 14.8
9 Seattle/Tacoma - Sacramento 408 / 16.7
10 Seattle/Tacoma - San Francisco 395 / 17.1



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5604 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11941 times:

It looks to me like the VX route strategy is starting to take shape and it's no surprise that SFO and LAX appear to be "the" hubs -- this was fairly clear from the first flight announcements. Perhaps JFK was also to be at least a focus city but that may have already changed due to the congestion issues developing there. Maybe when MIA comes on board, we'll be able to tell more about that as we see exactly where they fly from Miami: what a choice -- either already-congested JFK or fuel-guzzling trans-cons to California!

It looks (at this point) like any further expansion from LAS and SAN is unlikely. I'm disappointed that there is no SAN-SEA service announcement -- a market with currently only 1 n/s carrier -- and surprised that Virgin has not entered the LAX-LAS market.

As has been mentioned in this thread, and many before it, a/c delivery delays are an important factor in VX's growth (or lack thereof) and I'm sure the fuel prices are affecting their plans as well. I imagine their primary goal right now is to add cities to their route map, even under pretty tough circumstances. I continue to hope that after an initial surge of such expansion activity, perhaps they will go back and fill in some P-2-P markets between exisiting stations.

bb


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11902 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
Maybe when MIA comes on board, we'll be able to tell more about that as we see exactly where they fly from Miami: what a choice -- either already-congested JFK or fuel-guzzling trans-cons to California!

3x JFK, 2x SFO, 1x LAX was the plan as of last month.



a.
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11843 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
It looks to me like the VX route strategy is starting to take shape and it's no surprise that SFO and LAX appear to be "the" hubs -- this was fairly clear from the first flight announcements.

Sounds like they are emulating the JetBlue strategy. Big hub in a major metro area on a coast.

If you took their route map and rotated 180 degrees, it would look almost like JetBlue in the early years: flights up and down the coast with transcons.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5604 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11844 times:

Also of interest might be the DOT figures (1Q07) showing (for the airports served by VX):

SEA-LAS...2139 O&D pax/day (total/both ways)
SEA-LAX...1898
SEA-SAN...1334
SEA-SFO...1283

Of course Laxintl's post (reply 20) also includes average yeilds (for AS) which are quite interesting too...

bb


25 HikesWithEyes : Obviously this will hurt AS' bottom line, but I think that they will compete very aggressively against VX in this market. Yes, some traffic will shif
26 SpencerII : I'm certain they don't think that.. IN fact they know & understand it will take time to develop, although I know for a fact they decided to start thi
27 Post contains images KELPkid : Why not? Transcons are money makers (if you can fill the bird with people...). The CASM goes down as stage length increases, because the aircraft is
28 Lono : When VX was first announced ..... AS management boys took notice and it was put on their threat list... When VX was first announced I always thought
29 EVA777SEA : Just like how SEA was only supposed to see service to SFO, right?
30 RwSEA : VX steps in where others continue to stagnate. As had been mentioned, the service and reliability of AS has been in a downward spiral in recent years.
31 Osprey88 : As has been said before, it will be interesting to see how AS responds, and I hope it is in not just cutting prices, but also increasing service leve
32 MAH4546 : And plans change, right? Of course they do, which is why I said, as of last month. Just like as of last month, SEA was only set to get SFO, and now t
33 Mason : I've always heard this, so what makes them so efficient in the thin air? I know my car gets better milage and performance at sea level than up in the
34 ThreeIfByAir : AS isn't NW by any means when it comes to retalliation, but I'm sure we'll see some good deals to both cities. Not a whole lot else for AS to do - LA
35 Ikramerica : Then how do I remember where I put the paper afterward?
36 Post contains images GMUAirbusA320 : Man, this is GREAT news! I put in for the Station Sup position at Dulles and got a call back for an interview, sadly, it was right before I left. Now,
37 Exaauadl : Is UA flying RJs on LAX-SEA?
38 Post contains images AirframeAS : That is what a date book is for, you have one of those......right?? Back to the thread, I wonder what Billy Boy Ayer is going to do right now. Seems
39 BAW716 : No, DL is still operating this route with RJs. (EMB145s). Virgin America coming to Seattle is a good thing. It won't affect AS too much, but it will
40 Lono : Lets hope they don't use menzies for their ground handling.... !!! The service issue is what VX is shooting for.... and AS is in their sights.... PDX
41 LAXintl : With upcoming January schedule change as UA absorbs additional 70 seat ExPlus(3 class F, E+ and Y) CR7s, two of the four daily LAX-SEA flights will b
42 Post contains images AirframeAS : I fear that AS has slept too long under Billy Boy Ayer's dictatorship.... Time will tell how things unfold, and its going to get very interesting for
43 RoseFlyer : UA is mostly mainline, but this winter is going down to just 4 daily flights. You'll see everything on the route. UA has scheduled CR7s, 737s, A320s
44 LAXintl : Sure they do. Daily #2606 LAX-SEA 1100-1340lt and flight #2607 SEA-LAX 1420-1659lt on Horizon CR7s.
45 PlanesNTrains : This is so important. Folks get bashed on this board repeatedly for providing "bad" information, when in reality, many times the information changes.
46 RwSEA : Yes, but that's more of a repositioning flight and there's still 10+ daily AS flights to choose from on mainline. UA is now going to be 50% RJ.
47 Laxintl : Repositioning flight? QX does plenty of LAX CR7 flying including 3 PDX flights, so they certainly dont need a SEA flight to swap planes out. Addition
48 Post contains images KELPkid : Well, since you're into the car analogies...does your car burn more gas with the cruise set at 65 or while going up a 6-7% grade in the mountains whe
49 LACA773 : This brings up many things about what AS might do on these important routes of theirs. How are they going to differenate their product from VX? It se
50 Post contains images Alaska737 : Right, wow they only have the entire state of Alaska behind them, if they were to lose a bit of this market share I dont think they could survive I w
51 Laxintl : Well according to DOT 2Q numbers yield wise AS and UA are near equal at LAX, but UA out performs from SFO. LAX-SEA AS-13.7 UA-13.4 LAX-PDX AS-14.5 UA
52 Lono : Never said anything about VX "taking out" AS... nor will they fly to JNU, OME/OTZ.... Maybe one day ANC.... but probably not FAI.... they are going t
53 Carfield : I were very happy when I heard this news this morning. I was a bit disappointed that SEA-JFK was not on the map, but I guess it is a tough market to b
54 Socalatc : The QX flight from LAX-SEA is going away in the first quarter, also one LAX-PDX on the CR7. They will be using these planes to operate 1 rt. -- Seatt
55 F9Animal : I don't think VX is waltzing in to grab a bunch of customers to be profitable. I would say that VX is flying into SEA to grab a bunch of customers to
56 BrightCedars : I think one has to see this as part of a more global strategy of Virgin airlines. I mean, you'll soon eventually be flying Virgin Blue to a point in A
57 Tedex : Agree on both points. Someone needs to start a solid in-state competitor to Alaska and invest in the technology to do it right and maintain operation
58 Post contains images AirframeAS : That is not what I meant, dude. Losing share of the SEA-LAX market can cause a chain reaction at AS. You know this just as well as I do. Your sarcasm
59 Sxf24 : No it won't. AS can most certainly afford to give up a portion of the SEA-LAX traffic. While it is an important and heavily traveled route, it is not
60 Post contains images Ikramerica : No. This isn't the 20th century. And where do I write this tidbit down? What date? Since it's something I'm supposed to remember NEXT time I book, wh
61 717-200 : I wonder if SEA-IAD would be a good idea for VX with only UA as compettion on the route and AS only goes to DCA.
62 Dc-9-10 : Sorry to go off of the topic, but I was wondering where one finds this information, I went looking all over the DOT web page and came up with nothing
63 Post contains images AirframeAS : Yes, it will, sir. If you look at reply # 20, it will tell you that this route is very important to AS. Its the numbers game. Take a very good look!
64 FlyPNS1 : Just because a route has a lot of volume doesn't necessarily mean it is all that important to the profitability of the company. Almost every airline
65 Lono : I remember hearing this when WN was getting going.... and B6.... it starts small... then before you know it you have a big problem... VX is well fund
66 HikesWithEyes : DCA is a higher yield, and AS has the rights locked up.
67 Searpqx : The point is, look how AS responded when WN invaded their turf. Other than the recent SFO-SAN drop, AS has held its ground on any route where they co
68 Lono : Yes I agree that AS is not slow and they will respond. But, how will they respond? In the past their service levels and first class service was their
69 Searpqx : I don't disagree with a thing your saying, especially as far as my interpretation of what VX motivation/strategy is. I'm just questioning how success
70 Lono : That is what will make it interesting to watch.... I agree with what you are saying and it will be very hard for VX to lure away AS FF members.... Th
71 EA CO AS : AS is listening to their customers and is focusing highly on operational reliability, and some very positive changes have already taken root at SEA as
72 UA772IAD : Not quite sure what you mean. What is the incentive to fly VX? VX doesn't offer anything out of SEA. UA and AS offer much more. Not to mention that U
73 SANFan : As this thread is quickly becoming an AS thread, let me point out something to consider: I think many are forgetting about another major player in the
74 Lono : Yes I remember back in the Day WA flew this.... and the flights were very popular... SAN was a busy place for WA... even flew to HNL out of there...
75 AirframeAS : We all know about WN. The thing is....SEA isnt WN's backyard, and they have been cutting back service since they tried to pull out of SEA to go to BF
76 HikesWithEyes : Yes, VX will offer some cool inflight ammenities, which no doubt will attract some traffic. However, it will be interesting to see how their actual op
77 N200WN : Absolutely incorrect. WN is now at 47 departures a day at SEA, more than we've ever had. This whole idea that WN is mad at SEA and holding some kind
78 AirframeAS : WITH the addition of DEN. 47 departures a day out of SEA sounds the same to me as before the BFI screw around.
79 EA CO AS : At the end of the day I firmly believe UA may lose some share to VX, but I really don't think AS will fare badly against them. They'll definitely comp
80 EVA777SEA : N200WN is right, the number of departures has gone up, not including the DEN addition. No routes have been discontinued and many of them have seen an
81 737-990 : For several years AS mgnt has used the threat of what a Virgin America might do to press fthe need for cost cuts. I began to think it was a convenient
82 SANFan : Yeah, and remember when UA used to fly n/s between Lindbergh and both PDX and SEA (and of course our friends with the smiley-faces were in the market
83 Lono : I had no idea WN was that large in SEA town.... how many flights are SEA-LAX..... SEA-SFO...????
84 F9Animal : Oh man, that is bad. I am sure that will be short lived, evenutally they will need to get their own ramp operations at VX. How many planes at VX have
85 Post contains images AirframeAS : Neither did I. I did know, as a matter of fact that WN was one of the major players at SEA behind NW and UA. 47 daily flights isn't much compared to
86 Socalatc : Alaska's MVP/GOLDS dont fly AS for their inflight entertainment, they fly them for their schedules. Most MVP's are business travelers and they like t
87 Socalatc : Just looking on the VX website, I am noticing that the are not selling LAX-SEA yet , however they are selling SFO-SEA. When will they begin selling LA
88 Sxf24 : Just because you say it, doesn't make it true.
89 Post contains images Ikramerica : I was waiting for someone to notice this. I constantly hear how horrible they are, and yet all the VX superfans never mentioned they contracted out t
90 Alias1024 : Exactly. The goal of Alaska in 2008 is to fix the operation. More reliable, quicker baggage handling, and product improvements where necessary. The R
91 Carfield : First, I think AS will be okay because it still has feeds to the 10 Mexican destinations from LA (reminded by the AS advertisement on the LA freeway b
92 Lono : Carfield, Excellent sumation of the problems AS is having, many of us in Alaska have seen first hand the problems you describe. I grew up on AS and t
93 Post contains images F9Animal : Thank god you did not choke on your gummy bears when you saw that! I would have probably passed out and urinated myself. Anyways, I am a bit shocked
94 Sxf24 : I've heard there is no plan to ever bring the ramp in-house. The additional costs would not be manifested in better capability or quality.
95 Alaska737 : Yes I know that, I wasnt speaking of this thread I have too, but the problem with another airline going into Alaska is that no one can make money try
96 Post contains images AirframeAS : See reply #91. Obviously, you have not flown on AS lately....have you? Gosh, I really HOPE so! But we will see...time will tell. Excellent post, Carf
97 Alaska737 : they Yeah i have heard about it also but it has never had an affect on me. I buy the cheap fares all the time and still get upgraded....it doesnt alw
98 Ikramerica : Or, the added costs wouldn't be justified for the marginal improvement in capability/quality? Having in house oversight can always, theoretically, le
99 Socalatc : That is one Golds opinion. See reply 97
100 Post contains images Sxf24 : Every week, if not more. Perhaps I think you've said it better than I could.
101 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Perish the thought!!! Experience has shown that you'd be in the minority. Have you not been paying attention to reality? True. Watch it. Just because
102 Lono : On man... put me on the spot.... hmmmm hater...???? nah! just someone who remembers AS at their best and who has seen AS (I hope) at their worst....
103 Post contains images AirframeAS : I challenge you to provide a source, please. I can testify and say that I have seen AS at their BEST (before Ayer) and.... at their worst (right now)
104 Sxf24 : I'm not going to jeopardize my personal and professional relationships by posting the names of people I talk to.
105 AirframeAS : Then you should have thought about that before you said something.... Doesn't make you look very good on the forums.
106 717-200 : It is too bad that VX might not be looking to bring the ramp in house. Maybe this is old fashioned thinking but when I worked for FL on the ramp I fe
107 BAW716 : Well, there are a few strong opinions on this subject: Well, let me add mine: 1. VX will not hurt AS here in the Seattle area. AS is just too big and
108 PlanesNTrains : As someone who has been flying AS occasionally for over 30 years, I'd have to say that, short of onboard food service, I fail to see any dramatic cha
109 EA CO AS : I remember the extra flight attendants. And the coach meals that were far more extravagant than any other airline offered. And all the other touches
110 Ikramerica : Well, that's the whole nut right there. The anti-menzies stuff on these forums are mostly from AS people who lost their jobs or who saw their "brothe
111 PlanesNTrains : Good point. Sometimes change is needed, and that can be difficult for many employees and customers to deal with. But if you have some great core peop
112 EIPremier : I understand what you are saying about the upgrades becoming more restrictive, but just to clarify, you do not need to buy the "value" fare to get up
113 EIPremier : My two cents about AS versus VX: Obviously VX has a superior hard product, with state of the art IFE, lighting, very nice F seats. It wouldn't surpris
114 Post contains images AirframeAS : Excellent post. EIPremier! I agree with you 100%, except for one minor thing.... That is not necessarly true, you left out the layoffs of A&P mechani
115 Socalatc : When did they lay off SEA mechanics? Also, when they got rid of OAK they let mechanics furlough into other stations if they held seniority, not not e
116 Sxf24 : The Seattle heavy maintenance operations were closed in 2000.
117 AirframeAS : When the base check was shut down. Same thing....
118 Lono : Occasionally good service... I have been flying AS my whole life and I have had occasionally good service also.. but when you fly AS often... you see
119 Carfield : Great Post EIPremier... Excellent words and analyzes... Carfield
120 Surfdog75 : Alaska would be smart to take a page from NWA's playbook and defend their home field viciously. They should flood the market with seats below Virgin's
121 Lono : Surfdog.... Yes that would be one way to defend... they should beef up their service while they are at it and they would succeed... As a former DL emp
122 Carfield : About the new upgrades, for us MVP Gold and those using the special guest upgrades (4 coupons per year for each MVPG member), you can use them on ever
123 Alaska737 : Does anyone know which gates VX will use? SEA seems fairly full. Couldnt you just get the free upgrade without using miles???? I do that all the time
124 EA CO AS : I keep hearing everyone talking about the funding VX has - but they seem to forget that AS had, at last count, $888M in cash on hand. Plus untapped c
125 Carfield : Sorry I should clarify it... those applied to those who seek confirmed upgrades in advance. Yes you can still get the complimentary confirmed upgrades
126 LACA773 : A great inflight product (meals) and crews really did help set AS apart fromt he rest. Now it just seems as if it's just another 73G/800/900/400 with
127 717-200 : That wouldn't hurt. It would ease the pain of being stuck in a middle seat on a 738 for 6+ hours SEA/ANC-HNL. Doesn't HA do a full meal service in th
128 AirframeAS : I think they just might get positioned at the A concourse with a dual gate shared with Midwest Airlines. That is what I am speculating. But I could v
129 PlanesNTrains : I'm sorry that you've had so many bad experiences with Alaska over all these years. Have you tried flying someone else out? I'm just thankful that my
130 PlanesNTrains : I would hope that a carrier like VX would be able to set up shop in A. It's a great concourse, and definitely fits their style better than B or somet
131 AirframeAS : I'm glad you agree. Its a much better looking concourse anyway, and newer too.
132 717-200 : Are there any plans to update the rest of the terminals at SEA? C and especially D could use an update.
133 Seabosdca : In an alternate universe where any significant number of flyers are willing to pay a cent more for service, this might change. In the real world, the
134 Lono : Don't get us a-net members living in Alaska started on "flying someone else".... I have been using CO when possible... but business takes me to JNU..
135 F9Animal : Wow Lono, very well said. I agree with you, and I would love to see someone come into the state of Alaska and lower those fares. Perhaps VX or WN wou
136 717-200 : 3 or 4 well timed SEA-ANC/FAI runs by (insert favorite LCC here) would give the folks over at grinning eskimo's HQ at Angle Lake some sleepless night
137 Sxf24 : Are you suggesting that 20% of AS' passenger traffic, that happens to be in a market that costs significantly more to operate in, carries the remaini
138 Post contains images EA CO AS : Come on now, you should know better than to let something trivial like facts spoil the good time of the AS-bashers.
139 Lono : I am saying Alaska should change it's name to...... something that does not have Alaska in the title.... Because we are tired of the different servic
140 EA CO AS : Won't happen. While some people in the state of Alaska bash AS, most love the airline. And its heart and soul will always be in AK.
141 Alaska737 : Thats pretty serious stuff right there, if you thought people flipped out when the eskimo was going off the tail, people would die if that name chang
142 Post contains images AirframeAS : ....in an evil way, indirectly. LOL! A good plot to a movie.... (Yes, Im totally kidding!) This idea has been floating around for YEARS. And it's not
143 Post contains images EA CO AS : Oh for the love of...
144 Lono : Head on down to JNU/SIT/KTN and have that conversation and here in ANC too for that matter... just be sure you are ready to pay dearly in air fair
145 Alaska737 : The thing is all Alaskans can bitch as much as they want but everyone knows that without AS the small towns and communities would suffer...if AS were
146 Lono : I was in JNU when AS employees would race to the banks to try and cash their checks.... sometimes they had to wait a few days to cash their checks...
147 Chugach : I've been flying AS my whole life, including 45K miles this year, based from ANC, and just don't see it like you do. Yeah, Alaska (the state) is a hi
148 LACA773 : Thankyou for your take on things @ AS. I understand your point of view greatly. I guess what it comes down to for me, is I used to fly AS a great dea
149 Lono : Yup me too I know the reasons... Again... I agree with you... Except sometimes they can't fix mistakes... biggie for me is when they cause me to miss
150 Chugach : The trick for a LCC to succeed in Alaska is to avoid the ANC-SEA route. Let AS and CO do their thing on that one. F9 does just fine doing DEN-ANC, an
151 F9Animal : I am just happy to see Virgin America flying into SEA. I wonder if this might open the opportunity for Virgin Atlantic to start flying into SEA?
152 Lono : That and a good FF program to compete with the AS FF program... YES!....
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