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BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.  
User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3338 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

BA time table for April now offers a second flight to MCO from Gatwick, BA2038 BA2039, B777, have they pulled this from a less profitable route in the US and are they chasing the Virgin market share, presume it will be the same class config with no First class available. Perhaps the weak dollar long term makes BA spot a revenue opportunity.


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKLMA330 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

I was in Orlando twice this year visiting family that lives there. It's Little Britain alright! LOL

User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5453 times:



Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter):
BA time table for April now offers a second flight to MCO from Gatwick, BA2038 BA2039, B777, have they pulled this from a less profitable route in the US and are they chasing the Virgin market share, presume it will be the same class config with no First class available. Perhaps the weak dollar long term makes BA spot a revenue opportunity.

Which route did they pull this from? I assume this 777 they are sending is going to be in the 2-class layout of the existing 777 that flies LGW-MCO.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3463 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5449 times:

Considering VS already has 3x day from LGW and 1x from MAN all on 744's and don't they fly GLA-MCO during the winter?

I think it will be hard for BA to take much of a market from VS.


User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

They haven't pulled anything. They will have moved the IAH and DFW to LHR so it frees up a bit of space at Gatwick, hence why they have added the additional Orlando.

I think the 777's to do this will be partly funded by a 777 coming up from LGW and also some moving around of the existing LHR fleets.

[Edited 2007-12-13 09:29:25]

User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3338 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5352 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 2):

The B777 out of Gatwick is 3 Class, Club, Premium Economy, and economy



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24961 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5334 times:



Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 5):
The B777 out of Gatwick is 3 Class, Club, Premium Economy, and economy

Don't BA have some 4 class out of LGW doing the BGI flights for example?



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3338 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5268 times:



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 6):

I think they do on that route, but no First to Orlando or I would be on it.



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 5):
The B777 out of Gatwick is 3 Class, Club, Premium Economy, and economy

Thats Club World,World Traveller Plus and World Traveller!  

[Edited 2007-12-13 10:34:15]

User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5228 times:



Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 5):

Quoting B752OS (Reply 2):

The B777 out of Gatwick is 3 Class, Club, Premium Economy, and economy

Let me rephrase that then. Are they going to be in the same setup as the existing MCO flight, where there is club, traveler plus and traveler? Or for example on LHR-JFK there is First, Club, Traveler Plus and Traveler.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5228 times:

British Airways is not doubling flights to MCO. The new frequency is 3x weekly.


a.
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3659 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5043 times:



Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 3):
Considering VS already has 3x day from LGW

VS scaled LGW - MCO back to 2x daily quite a while back.


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4923 times:



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 6):
Don't BA have some 4 class out of LGW doing the BGI flights for example?

As well as Houston, Dallas and Atlanta IIRC.


User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4880 times:

I think BA are trying to add more frequency to MCO because it is quite a profitable route for them now. The premium cabins are nearly always full also.
Ive also heard that a lot of VS traffic is in Y. Bearing in mind that BA are to send x2 777's on some days makes sense. Ive heard that VS dont make much money on the MCO route because they sell so many seats in Y. This may be the reason they put x2 flights on a day so that they can get more premium pax out to MCO.
BA sending x2 777's on some days means that they can sell more premium seats and to MCO and although sending more Y pax it isnt costing as much as VS. A 747 costs more to fly than a 777

Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4829 times:



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 13):
I think BA are trying to add more frequency to MCO because it is quite a profitable route for them now. The premium cabins are nearly always full also.
Ive also heard that a lot of VS traffic is in Y. Bearing in mind that BA are to send x2 777's on some days makes sense. Ive heard that VS dont make much money on the MCO route because they sell so many seats in Y. This may be the reason they put x2 flights on a day so that they can get more premium pax out to MCO.
BA sending x2 777's on some days means that they can sell more premium seats and to MCO and although sending more Y pax it isnt costing as much as VS. A 747 costs more to fly than a 777

It's the entire opposite. Orlando has traditionally been a money-losing operation for British Airways, but it is a very important destination to serve given how huge a how huge a market it is from the United Kingdom. I don’t know how the flights have been doing as of recent, but the new flights could be simply an opportunity to make up for poor yield with more capacity.

Virgin Atlantic has always done extremely well at MCO. They fly there with planes configured in an extremely high density configuration with very little premium seats (Miami and Boston, for example, have significantly less Virgin Atlantic capacity than Orlando, yet have slight more Upper Class seats) that make it easy to profit.



a.
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3659 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4587 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
It's the entire opposite. Orlando has traditionally been a money-losing operation for British Airways, but it is a very important destination to serve given how huge a how huge a market it is from the United Kingdom. I don’t know how the flights have been doing as of recent, but the new flights could be simply an opportunity to make up for poor yield with more capacity.

It would go totally against the principles of operation at BA to expand a poor yielding route. All the BA decisions you see on this board are primarily to do with financial performance. Their big aim is to acheive a 10% operating profit. Quite how you compensate for poor yield on a route by increasing capacity escapes me; I feel that if the yield was poor on LGW - MCO BA would be reducing capacity, not increasing it


User currently offlineSam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4453 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
British Airways is not doubling flights to MCO. The new frequency is 3x weekly.

...which makes 10 weekly BA flights between LGW and MCO - not bad.

How long until the BA leisure destinations that are still at LHR move down to LGW? Could NAS, for example, sustain a 777 from LGW?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
VS scaled LGW - MCO back to 2x daily quite a while back.

Without meaning to sound rude, I think BA and VS serve different markets - thus they complement each other on many routes.



Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4381 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
know how the flights have been doing as of recent, but the new flights could be simply an opportunity to make up for poor yield with more capacity.

Please explain how that works. Is that like the old retailing joke about losing money on every transaction but making up for it in volume?


User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3338 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3375 times:



Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 16):

Without meaning to sound rude, I think BA and VS serve different markets - thus they complement each other on many routes.

I kind of agree with this, I think Virgin could operate a 747 on this route offering only Premium Economy and Economy and still fill the seats.



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3268 times:



Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 16):
How long until the BA leisure destinations that are still at LHR move down to LGW? Could NAS, for example, sustain a 777 from LGW?

Nassau is a premium leisure destination. I don't think it will move.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 15):
Quite how you compensate for poor yield on a route by increasing capacity escapes me; I feel that if the yield was poor on LGW - MCO BA would be reducing capacity, not increasing it

You can always compensate for poor yield by making up for it in volume. The yield doesn't get better, but the operation can get more profitable, when you take into account things like fixed operating costs for running the station.



a.
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7415 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3237 times:
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Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 3):
Considering VS already has 3x day from LGW and 1x from MAN all on 744's and don't they fly GLA-MCO during the winter?

MAN-MCO operates up to 9 or 10 weekly in summer, and up to 8 weekly in winter. GLA-MCO only operated about 6 times this year but will be around 15 or 16 times this coming summer (note: this service causes them to drop the MAN-MCO service by 1 flight a week when it operates)


User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3129 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
the new flights could be simply an opportunity to make up for poor yield with more capacity.

Virgin Atlantic has always done extremely well at MCO. They fly there with planes configured in an extremely high density configuration with very little premium seats (Miami and Boston, for example, have significantly less Virgin Atlantic capacity than Orlando, yet have slight more Upper Class seats) that make it easy to profit.

How do you make up for poor yield with adding another flight? this would mean having poor yeild on at least two aircraft instead of one.
You hit the nail on the head when you say that VS have very few Premium seats but this is were BA make they're money. You have to sell a lot of Y seats to make a profit on a lfight whereas you dont have to sell anywhere near a smany Premium seats to make the same kind of cash. BA dont have the aircraft at LGW to add extra capacity Premium seats to an aircraft at LW so they must therefore add another aircraft. I would like to think that with Florida growing even more in the next few years BA could start to go TPA daily and maybe add extra frequencies to the MCO route maikin it a double daily flight........... if it doesnt work then yes, pull the extra frequencies and try to add them eslewhere......................................Cash is King after all


Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3122 times:



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 21):
How do you make up for poor yield with adding another flight? this would mean having poor yeild on at least two aircraft instead of one.

Again, more flights, more seats to sell, it lowers the fixed costs, poor yields are made up for. I didn't say yields get better, but there are other parts of the operation that can become more profitable through additional capacity, allowing the overall performance of a route to improve. Plus, there is possible additional cargo revenue, and when you offer more cargo capacity, you become more attractive to the heavier shippers.



a.
User currently offlineL1011dal From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

I thought I read BA was pulling out of DTW and that provided more capacity for another market - MCO and somewhere else.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3059 times:



Quoting L1011dal (Reply 23):
I thought I read BA was pulling out of DTW and that provided more capacity for another market - MCO and somewhere else.

Not related. Detroit was served out of Heathrow with the Heathrow-based fleet. Orlando is served from Gatwick with a Gatwick-based fleet. BA is transferring Houston and Dallas flights to Gatwick, leaving only Atlanta, Orlando, and Tampa. Though I'm not really sure where the capacity is coming from, because DFW and IAH, IIRC, used the low-density planes with first class, while Orlando (and Tampa) does not.



a.
25 Alangirvan : In the Economy part of the Cabin, how do BA and VS operate against all the UK IT carriers who are flying in the same market? Do BA and VS sell a lot o
26 Bongodog1964 : Many of the VS passengers flying to MCO have booked via Virgin Holidays, which provides VS with a good feed on both their USA leisure orientated rout
27 MAH4546 : A lot of the premium economy passengers on VS' MCO flights are upgrades from economy. Likewise, a lot of the Upper Class passengers on VS' MCO flight
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