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First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype  
User currently offlineENU From Netherlands, joined Nov 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 39881 times:

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/photos/01ARJ21.jpg

The first prototype of the ARJ 21 developed by China. Its first flight scheduled is for next year.

Source: http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=nav2&picid=4295

More info: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/arj21/



116 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLindy Field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3118 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 39874 times:
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Well, look at that. Guess the DC-9 or 717 isn't dead after all. Has Northwest considered ordering any of these?

Apparently the Chinese are using tooling provided by McDonnell Douglas for the MD-90 trunkliner program. It's no coincidence that the nose, tail, and cross-section of this aircraft look so familiar.


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 39849 times:
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Looks like a Boeing 717 and Fokker 70 / 100. Did they have help from Boeing to build this aircraft?

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 39819 times:



Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 2):
Looks like a Boeing 717 and Fokker 70 / 100. Did they have help from Boeing to build this aircraft?

Just what I was going to ask. If you look at the aircrafts homepage they have some cabin shots. The a/c looks very, very, very like the 737NG family, in terms of ceiling panels, lockers and sidewalls.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5027 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 39777 times:

I really like it! I have always loved the DC-9 line, and this looks pretty close to it. I hope it does good in sales.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 39673 times:

I wish it does well, the same with the Sukhoi, but I worry that airlines in the west will not buy it because of the media and people assuming that it cannot be safe because it is Chinese/Russian.


AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 39659 times:

are there any budgetary pricings floating around ? Have not found any indications on the web?


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 39653 times:



Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 5):
I wish it does well, the same with the Sukhoi, but I worry that airlines in the west will not buy it because of the media and people assuming that it cannot be safe because it is Chinese/Russian.

I think it's success outside of China will have less to do with perceived safety (it will have to be certified by the JAA and FAA anyway if it wants to fly in the west), but more with after-sales support. And of course efficiency, purchase price and maintenance. That's what killed most Russian project so far IMHO, lousy after sales support.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 39644 times:

They'll sell a ton of them in China...that'll keep production tied up for a very long time.


What the...?
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 39605 times:

Any idea about operating economics vs. its competitors?

User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 39586 times:



Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 1):
Well, look at that. Guess the DC-9 or 717 isn't dead after all. Has Northwest considered ordering any of these?

^^haha

the DC-9 is still alive, no way!

beautiful.. but how long has this project being going on for?

I had no idea this aircraft model existed..


User currently offlinePlunaCRJ From Uruguay, joined Nov 2007, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 39557 times:

It looks just like a DC9/ MD80/ MD90/ 717. But the nose is different.

Anyone knows how many orders the type has?


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 39467 times:

The DC9 is reborn ! Maybe NW will have a look at it !

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12457 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 39127 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 7):
I think it's success outside of China will have less to do with perceived safety (it will have to be certified by the JAA and FAA anyway if it wants to fly in the west), but more with after-sales support. And of course efficiency, purchase price and maintenance. That's what killed most Russian project so far IMHO, lousy after sales support.

 checkmark 

The average traveller can't tell you where the ATR/EMB/ERJ/CRJ/etc they are flying on is made, so unless there is some sort of scandal that emphasizes the plane's origin in a negative way, it should be fine.

As its Wikipedia site says, it has MD90 tooling, an Antonov-designed wing, GE power and Rockwell Collins avionics. Think of it as an outsourced MD90++!  Smile

I agree the key to sealing the deal with airlines outside of China will be the support network. Of course, one hopes there is enough quality in the product to not need extraordinary amounts of support, but in any case, there will always be a need for routine support.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSIBILLE From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 480 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 39058 times:

Lao Airlines is the first export customer. They have two on order.

User currently offlineENU From Netherlands, joined Nov 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 39045 times:

Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 14):

A launch order has been received for 35 aircraft, for Shandong Airlines (ten), Shanghai Airlines (five) and Shenzhen Financial Leasing (20). In November 2006, Shanghai Electric Leasing (SE Leasing) signed a memorandum of understanding for 30 aircraft, and in August 2007, Lao Airlines of Laos signed an MoU for two aircraft.

The project started in 2002. I believe Bombardier is a partner in the programme (especially the engines resemble that of the CRJ) since this year, if I'm correct, it was announced at the Paris Airshow.

ARJ21 and DC9 compared:




[Edited 2007-12-15 08:30:36]

User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 38927 times:

erfff.. the 900 looks like a potential tail strike victim on a regular basis.. is that thing even lower than the ol' maddogs?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
As its Wikipedia site says, it has MD90 tooling, an Antonov-designed wing, GE power and Rockwell Collins avionics. Think of it as an outsourced MD90++!

Love to get a better shot of the wings.. see what Antonov cooked up for it. hard to go wrong with GE power and RC-av



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3301 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 38907 times:

Heck, it even has the same nose...The lines are identical, except they dropped the center cockpit window for two larger Captain / FO panels...

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4590/01arj21uw8.jpg


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © DAD - Baires Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Borut Smrdelj



The front exit matches perfectly in its position, and so does the longitudinal line "joining" the upper and lower fuselage "halves" at floor-level.

This really is the second coming of the Mad Dog, folks...



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3104 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 38668 times:



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 11):
It looks just like a DC9/ MD80/ MD90/ 717. But the nose is different.

Specifically it looks to me like a DC9-10 with a more pointed nose and of course updated engines. Now what do we know about the manufacturing company, and its production reliability, and the cost of this aircraft.

Most of all regarding Northwest I hope A-Net member Favre chimes in on this one. I wonder if Northwest even knows that this aircraft exists.................


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8872 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 38604 times:

I do not know where you folks have been living, but it looks like an old design and as far as I am concerned reverse engineering by the other side of the political system is alive and well as far as aircraft goes. I guess in this politcally correct and global economy, we now call it co-operation and partnership.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineENU From Netherlands, joined Nov 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 38506 times:



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):

At least it's an improvement to the other Chinese manufactured aircraft, such as this one:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong



It's a government business, so it will be difficult to find out the real price of this aircraft.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 38493 times:

I love it. The plane looks so beautiful. Hopefully other airlines examine it while they look at the CRJ and ERJ.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 38326 times:

I wonder what the folks in the Boeing legal department have to say about the similarity in the design since the Chinese have no respect for copyright laws....


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 38281 times:

It definitely looks like a reverse engineered DC-9 to me. So much for the ARJ21 being an original design...  Yeah sure

User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8872 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 38217 times:

At least it's an improvement to the other Chinese manufactured aircraft, such as this one:



It's a government business, so it will be difficult to find out the real price of this aircraft[/quote]

Quoting ENU (Reply 20):

My point exactly, where is the competition fairness when we are dealing with a wholly owned government corporation and how can you get the figures, surely not through financial statements, or the demands of stockholders like Boeing, and Airbus have to contend with, I do not think there will be any public discussions about the need for this aircraft and whether it will be profitable, I do not think it matters too much in the business model in China.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
25 Cingularity : It is absolutely clear that the Chinese have "learned" a lot from their Truckliner program with McDonnell-Douglas. However, in a lot of cases, wheneve
26 ElmoTheHobo : Because it IS reverse engineered MD-90. McDonnell Douglas sent MD-90 production to China where they built the "Trunkliners" for Chinese carriers. The
27 WarRI1 : I could not agree with you more about this aircraft.
28 EI321 : Its being built on the Chinese licenced MD-90 production line, using the old MD-90 assembly equipment, so the Fuselage is the same. It looks like the
29 WarRI1 : I am afraid that you have alot to learn about aircraft design and how it is done, on the other side of the political spectrum, let us say to be polit
30 Post contains images Nucsh : So what do you get when you pair a CRJ's wings and motors with a DC-9's body...? [Edited 2007-12-15 10:42:39]
31 WarRI1 : If only the greedy trade at any price group would take your advice, but we know what is important,(cheap labor) If only the people losing their jobs
32 Post contains images Rheinbote : A rather unsophisticated prestige design with limited economic potential.
33 Nucsh : I'm curious to see what the flight deck will look like.
34 Post contains images Gabo787 : The real problem for Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier and even the Russians, will be when the Chinese starts building this airplanes in massive num
35 Flyf15 : So now its been established that this thing is a blatent rip-off (and probably a horribly manufactured one) of the DC-9 series of jets.... even using
36 WarRI1 : I wonder what kind of benefits package these Chinese Aircraft workers have? Surely they have health care, they must have holiday treatment(overtime f
37 Flyf15 : You mean selling their own interpretation of a Douglas airplane really cheap? First off, Boeing should be getting a portion of the profits from this
38 Post contains links Beaucaire : http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/arj21/arj215.html
39 Post contains images Lightsaber : I have to agree. This plane has three competitors: E175: Weighs less, similar range MRJ: ok, the MRJ is going to weigh more, but thanks to the GTF's
40 Post contains links Beaucaire : http://www.crashdehabsheim.net/Arj21.htm
41 JoeCanuck : The only customers it will have will be with airlines who would otherwise buy used...it won't hurt any western aircraft manufacturer. Nobody who build
42 Rampkontroler : I couldn't agree more! I've said it before, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. At least YOU understand!
43 WarRI1 : ( A bit of a trade war) I do believe we are in that now, trade is a weapon in this world we inhabit. I would like to know how we survived all these y
44 Planemaker : Not on the -700 model. The agreement was for a $100-million cash investment by Bombardier on the -900 programme. BBD would be responsible to provide
45 WarRI1 : Let us say then that the Russians just reversed engineered those aircraft for expediancy, seeing how a man named Stalin was watching and that could b
46 Viscount724 : I believe the fuselage is slightly wider than the DC-9/MD-80/90. That was mentioned in a recent Aviation Week & Space Technology article.
47 WarRI1 : Shenyang Aircraft, I think that this is such a wonderful idea to have a government owned producer of front line fighter aircraft that are produced to
48 Post contains images FlyMeToTheMoon : Hopefully it will not be painted with lead paint
49 KarlB737 : Interesting perspective,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
50 C680 : Sounds like a description of Japanese cars in 1968.
51 LTU932 : Looks like a blend of ERJ and CRJ flightdeck. I can't believe there are non-Chinese companies even involved in making this blatant ripoff happen.
52 Skyexramper : Sure looks like the panel of a Hawker 800 and the pedistal of the CRJ series.
53 WarRI1 : You cannot use a better example than that.
54 Planemaker : Well, not quite yet produce entire aircraft for us... that is still at least 5+ years away. However, we only have western corporate interests to blam
55 Silver1SWA : Looks like a DC-9/MD80/90 nose with 737 cockpit windows.
56 CJAContinental : I'm not sure your imagination will have to stretch that far, just take a guess from any present regional jet flight decks.
57 JoeCanuck : It is exactly that. At the moment, they're cheaper in every respect. However, I didn't say the situation would last forever. In 1968, Japanese cars w
58 Planemaker : Sorry, but there is nothing in common with an anology of '68 Japanese cars... nothing!
59 F14D4ever : FWIW the CRJ's use the GE CF34-8, which is an unboosted turbofan. The ARJ-700 & -900 use the GE CF34-10A, which shares turbomachinery with the -10E a
60 Post contains images A388 : My thoughts exactly. The moment I saw those ARJ21 pictures I saw a DC-9 with CRJ wings! Nothing new at all. Just a Next Generation DC-9 or DC-9NG A38
61 Eghansen : "In 1992, McDonnell Douglas Corporation announced a $1,000m contract with the Shanghai Aviation Industrial Corporation (SAIC) at Dachang to build the
62 Art : Boeing stopped 717 production. Would that be because the 737NG was inferior and Boeing did not want the 717 to steal custom from it or would that be
63 Eghansen : This is a quote from a press release from McDonnell Douglas dated July 26, 1996: "McDonnell Douglas has been active in China since 1975, and the Shan
64 J.mo : Sweet! A Chinese made DC-9 coated with lead paint and sold through Wal-Mart Financial.
65 Skyweasy82 : I did not read any theads above, but this aircraft has no chance at all in the US. It's a mess looking aircraft!
66 Post contains images 7cubed : I hope the FAA checks the paint for lead!
68 ElmoTheHobo : The 717 was Boeing's "bastard child" so to speak, and happened to be a really unlucky aircraft. The aircraft had no complimentary family models in pr
69 Planemaker : Just what case will Boeing have? Really!
70 Geekydude : It's amazing how people living in the 21st century still embracing the antiquated 16 and 17th century idea of mercantilism which has long been proven
71 Zeke : Saw the cockpit mock up in Honk Kong, looked like a stock standard Boeing autopilot.
72 Post contains images Planemaker : I know... I get a real chuckle reading the posters slam the ARJ21 for being old, antiquated, etc., and then complaining that they should pay a royalt
73 MEA-707 : Don't hold your breath. The big Chinese airlines didn't buy many of the other Chinese designs like the Y-12 and MA-60, and even the Chinese produced
74 Acjflyer : I think the aircraft is absolutely gorgeous, which I have thought even about the MD-80 and 90 Series aircraft. I think it is great that they have made
75 Post contains images Rheinbote : Okay, that makes it a little less unimpressive.
76 WarRI1 : [quote=Geekydude,reply=70]It's amazing how people living in the 21st century still embracing the antiquated 16 and 17th century idea of mercantilism w
77 Lightsaber : Ahhh... I didn't realize there was a target market where hot/high performance was a design driver. Ok... that gives the ARJ21 a niche. chuckle. The o
78 JoeCanuck : I just came back from China where there is a lot of talk about opening up a whole bunch of domestic routes. Expect a lot of startup airlines in the v
79 Planemaker : You won't see the ARJ21-700 in the States. For one, it won't get FAA certification, two, even if it did you wouldn't see it for at least 5 years sinc
80 Geekydude : What's strategic evolves over time because people learn over time. You can't stop the inquisitive mind of human beings from pursuing knowledge. And a
81 Planemaker : Because we know that China will one day be the largest economy and we don't like to be in second place... Americans only go for winners. During a pre
82 WarRI1 : If you will remember in the (Thread Cessna in China), I said that I myself find fault with the Capitalist system as much as anyone, we are asleep at
83 WarRI1 : [quote=Geekydude,reply=80] Simple, the Chinese have a long term goal in mind and have been saving up to 45% of its GDP![/ Would you care to share Chin
84 WarRI1 : I thank you for the information, the figures are burned into my brain and have been and I could not agree with you more about the government.
85 7E72004 : NW needs to jump onboard...:D
86 Alberchico : Frankly I am a little shocked by all the replies here about copying designs and ripping off the dc-9. Are Europe and U.S. the only 2 countries in the
87 Geekydude : Refusing to acknowledge the root problem and putting the blame on other countries cannot help anybody out of the hole either. The reason why some mid
88 Redjeff : What....Like miles of Stainless Steel control cables?
89 N710PS : The 717 LIVES! Horray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
90 Planemaker : Currently, but the ARJ21-900 will have FBW if the deal with BBD goes ahead as proposed.
91 Redjeff : Why reinvent the wheel.....It worked on the DC-9, MD80s,MD90, and 717. I doubt you'll see a FBW on this aircraft.
92 Gigneil : I love all the reaches made to make it sound like a copy. Its a tail-mounted jet. Yes, it looks like a tail-mounted jet. Yes, the flight deck displays
93 WarRI1 : Ok, I know we do not mention aviation too much on this thread, but it is all woven together, the designing, the manufacturing and the selling of airc
94 Post contains links Planemaker : Because there are many benefits to FBW over cables. Furthermore, FBW/FBL is the way forward and the ARJ21 is but a stepping stone to the ultimate goa
95 Vfw614 : I am not disputing the fact that reverse engineering is coming into play here. However, there are only so many ways to design a narrowbody aircraft. O
96 WarRI1 : I thank you for that information, I will read it thoroughly and it seems like someone else is concerned about the aircraft industry in the US and els
97 BrianDromey : To me, it LOOKS similar to the DC9/MD80/90/717, this is to be expected, NOT because China was too inept/lazy, etc to design a brand new set of tooling
98 Post contains images DHHornet : Nice one! This could be a great aircraft. I see it has good short field abilities. As long as you get the after sales back-up and they are built to a
99 JIWNCO : Beautiful bird! Can't wait to see her flying....
100 WarRI1 : I hope our fellow forum contributor from China will review this document and give us his opinion on this view of the Boeing Aircraft practices of out
101 Planemaker : Actually, the nose is not the DC-9/MD-90 nose that everyone may think... AVIC had to redesign it. Well, that is because Chrysler and MB were subs of
102 Rainmaker : if you mean by big business the likes of Microsoft, GE, Intel, Procter & Gamble and Pfizer you will end up facing a tradeoff between American high-pa
103 Geekydude : I will take a look at it. There is a lot of interesting information in there. Just by roughly looking through the abstract and flipping through the p
104 WarRI1 : Ah yes, pension savings acoounts, I wonder what happened to defined pension plans, I wonder if the benevolent corporations and the US government did
105 RJwrench85 : I guess they will be unveiling the ARJ21 the offical rollout I guess (first completed one) tomorrow in Shanghai. A colleague of mine is going so I mig
106 Alessandro : I personally find it strange that they don´t have a 100% Chinese made version for export to Iran, since they wouldn´t be allowed to sell it with all
107 NwAflyer07 : Asked myself that same question the second i saw the plans for this aircraft a year or two ago. I doubt NW will buy this aircraft because the two ver
108 Post contains images Rheinbote : Aviation Week September 17, 2007 page 76 "Above all, the ARJ21 program is important as the occasion in which Chinese industry is learning do develop a
109 Revelation : So you are saying that GE should be expecting unlicensed knock-offs of it's CF-34s and Honeywell and Rockwell Collins should be expecting unlicensed
110 JoeCanuck : Yes...or at least if it happens, it won't be a surprise to anyone, including those who decide to license tech to the Chinese...
111 WarRI1 : I think that the thinking of our fellow forum member from China tells us alot of what to expect in the years ahead as far as developing aircraft manu
112 Geekydude : I am simply stating there's no law to protect old technology. Even if a product is completely reversely engineered, it's not against the law to do th
113 Post contains images Acjflyer : I am looking forward to the day that this aircraft has great success, and I will be one of the first to stand underneath the approach pattern as it ma
114 Art : Indeed. Patents are limited in duration and fairly short term to prevent innovators denying society at large the benefit of their creativity in the l
115 Acjflyer : Very well put. I think it will be very interesting as to what regional jets make their impact and how they do that. I have had experience working wit
116 B2443 : As usual, a Chinese product (in this case an aircraft) has just been so quickly dismissed as a "knock-off" at a.net. Besides superficial observations
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First Picture Of Singapore's ValuAir posted Thu Mar 4 2004 00:37:14 by Singapore_Air
First Picture Of The New FlyNikki Livery (A321) posted Fri Jan 23 2004 20:50:33 by Sabena332