Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6833 posts, RR: 8 Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5232 times:
The Pittsburgh Tribune Review reported on Dec 13 that Pittsburgh was on the "short list" of NW/KL for service to AMS. The article quoted the Regional Air Service Partnership which was encouraging top executives to write to Douglas Steenland CEO of Northwest saying they would support the service.
Not sure how long the short list is, what the chances are, or what aircraft would do the service.
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 9647 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5031 times:
Quoting RW170 (Reply 2): They say nothing but how unprofitable PIT has been for them, and now that they have cut service from PIT so much, there aren't even as many opportunities to bring connecting passengers in to fill up international flights from PIT.
?? Then why would NW do PIT-AMS...
PIT has some ability to support a 757 Europe flight. Will NW be the one to do it, I guess we'll wait and see. Back when US pulled down its PIT-Europe flights, it did not have any 757-winglet birds. Now it does. I give US PIT-FRA 25% chance, NW PIT-AMS 35% chance, and nothing, a 40% chance. People are eager to see what markets the 757 can rejuvenate... so PIT might get a bone here.
I didn't say they would or wouldn't. They obviously thought BDL-AMS would work, and it's still around, so maybe they will add PIT if they get the right incentive package. As far as US, it's not going to happen, at least not under the current ownership. Since Parker and Kirby have taken over, they have done nothing but deemphasize PIT. US has been consistently and dramatically reducing service from the city, and is now closing the PIT crew bases and laying off ground employees. Each time they speak publicly or in employee newsletters and videos of future international expansion, they continue to emphasize that all transatlantic and transpacific routes will be added from PHL with a possible few exceptions added in CLT, PHX, and (least likely) LAS in a few years. It's simple logic. Why would an airline continue to cut service and emphasize growth from other cities and then add a nonstop transatlantic flight from a former hub that is now barely a focus city (if that). The only crazy way I could see it happening would be if a Pittsburgh corporation or corporations signed a deal offering US guaranteed revenue and profitability on a route similar to what AA has in RDU.
Jawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4740 times:
Quoting RW170 (Reply 5): I didn't say they would or wouldn't. They obviously thought BDL-AMS would work, and it's still around, so maybe they will add PIT if they get the right incentive package.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8): ...and we have a winner. PIT-AMS is well within the range of a 75A. BDL was a nothing in the NW system prior to the AMS flight, but NW saw an opportunity. It's no different in PIT.
I would agree with RW170, if BDL-AMS can work, why not PIT?
And is this not what Boeing predicted with the arrival of the 787? And surprise surprise, NW is a 787 customer. Now I agree, a 757 makes sense with PIT. I think it is obvious NW agrees with Boeing, point to point is what folks want. PIT-AMS has a great chance of happening. AMS is a great hub, and NW is taking on 787s and will have room to grow.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 24142 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4740 times:
Quoting Flighty (Reply 9): It comes down to a slight operational advantage for NW, being that they already have 757s at AMS to route into PIT. The same is not true for US at FRA. Plus, the range issue.
A 752 would have trouble with FRA-PIT in the winter and,unfortunately, business traffic doesn't tolerate seasonal cuts well. That's the biggest obstacle for US. Bridging a TATL 752 in from PHL wouldn't be that big a deal.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
PITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4524 times:
Quoting Flighty (Reply 7): And this may be the main reason why US might let NW take PIT-Europe. Otherwise, if AMS makes money, FRA would make money, and US could run such a flight. Would they, well their PR trends suggest no.
US will not run international flights from PIT in the distant future. Hell they are barely running domestic flights now.
Because NW has a huge hub on one end of the flight, AMS that works very well collecting connections from all over Europe, Middle East and Africa.
Quoting Flighty (Reply 7): It comes down to a slight operational advantage for NW, being that they already have 757s at AMS to route into PIT. The same is not true for US at FRA. Plus, the range issue.
NW has no aircraft based in AMS. All are US originating turnarounds.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14): No aircraft are based in AMS, but they aren't all turnarounds. They bridge aircraft through AMS to BOS and BDL. The rotation in the current schedule is DTW-AMS-BDL-AMS-BOS-AMS-DTW.
If an aircraft goes from the US to Europe, then turnaround and flies back to the US it is a turnaround. It doesn't need to go back to the same city to be labeled that. An aircraft either 1. goes through a city, 2. turns-around in a city, or 3. is based in that city.
Crews may call a turnaround flying back to the same city, but the movement of aircraft are not labeled that way.
Jawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3975 times:
Quoting Icna05e (Reply 16): Funny series of sentences...you are almost contradicting yourself here, even if I see your point. And you are totally right, it's just the way you expressed it!
Agreed, I was a little excited at the time, with the possibility of a PIT-AMS route. Your point (no pun intended ) is true enough. Point to point is not the right way to say it. This would be better expressed as a long distance thin route, a 787 type route.
Steeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9375 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3765 times:
I realize this is already talked about in the PIT thread, but what the heck, I also think NW service to AMS could work. US may have more aircraft coming to them in the next couple of years, but are they going to "waste their time" with PIT-Europe flights? I really do not think so...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6833 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3645 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17): The difference between going through and turning around being...?
Well if NWA has a flight that originates in the US to AMS and then continues on to Bombay it goes through a city. If BA has a flight that originates in LHR to DTW and then continues on to IAH, it goes through a city. Various cities in Asia are through cities out of NRT for NWA flights that began in the US. Need anymore?
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 8034 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3548 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Thread starter): Not sure how long the short list is, what the chances are, or what aircraft would do the service.
As it stands right now the short list includes:
This includes markets where NW / KLM has shown an interest or where the airport / local government has approached NW/KLM. Not saying that all are feasible due to demand, nor the right aircraft type (particularly DEN which could work with a 75A but never with an A330). PHL is not an if, but a when will in restart with a 75A ('09 is looking more likely than '08 at this point). The others on the list are wild cards if the right incentive package is put together then the potential becomes more likely)
Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 2): There is still plenty of time for NWA to announce their plans for the Atlantic 757s. With slack in the 744 and 333 fleets, I suspect more announcements to come in the near future.
As of now with the recent LHR announcements, the A330-200's are fully allocated, potentially one more available -300 for next summer, and 1 or 2 75A's available.
Quoting Bobnwa (Thread starter): The article quoted the Regional Air Service Partnership which was encouraging top executives to write to Douglas Steenland CEO of Northwest saying they would support the service.
If the incentive package is sweet enough, NW may bite.
Quoting RW170 (Reply 4): I didn't say they would or wouldn't. They obviously thought BDL-AMS would work, and it's still around, so maybe they will add PIT if they get the right incentive package
Per my lists it seems there is at least room for another 744 flight, at least 2 333s, at least 2 75As and zero 332s. The biggest question to me is where the 332 for the SEA-lHR is coming from? THe 2007 75A routes weren't announced until early 2007, therefore I believe there is still time for June/July launches.