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AA To Resume ORD-PDX  
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 729 posts, RR: 15
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

Well that did not last very long...

AA will resume 2x daily ORD-PDX on 4/7.

DFW-PDX will also add 1x daily for 5 daily flights.

AJMIA


Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Why did AA pull out of the ORD-PDX market? They fly four times a day from ORD-SAN which is a similar sized city.

User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5037 times:

There was chatter on A.net a month or so ago about ORD-PDX being seasonal. Is the re-start in April permanent?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32180 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5006 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
There was chatter on A.net a month or so ago about ORD-PDX being seasonal. Is the re-start in April permanent?

It might be, it might not be. That remains to be seen, but I say yes. Looks like they had a change of heart, because only a month ago it was gone for good.



a.
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

This never made any sense in the first place. Reminds me of UA deciding to discontinue ANC in the winter, and are now re-thinking that decision.


GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4724 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 1):
Why did AA pull out of the ORD-PDX market? They fly four times a day from ORD-SAN which is a similar sized city.

Completely different market, and San Diego has a half a million more people than Portland; not to mention that American is a much bigger player in San Diego than it is in Portland.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4712 times:



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 5):
Completely different market, and San Diego has a half a million more people than Portland; not to mention that American is a much bigger player in San Diego than it is in Portland.

I would also imagine that the demand for ORD-SAN is a whole lot less seasonal than for ORD-PDX. San Diego is lovely in February; Portland not so much.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 4632 times:

Great news to hear!

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View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2064 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

This was goofy in the first place.

The real PDX-fringe route is to St. Louis. I don't think they'd even have a problem making St. Louis, much less Chicago work.

The fact that this route was canned for a time period just shows how serious AA is with capacity.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4504 times:



Quoting Chugach (Reply 4):
Reminds me of UA deciding to discontinue ANC in the winter, and are now re-thinking that decision.

Well, there's a news flash . . .stupid idea . . .

Customer loyalty means NOTHING to airlines these days.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4459 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 1):
Why did AA pull out of the ORD-PDX market? They fly four times a day from ORD-SAN which is a similar sized city.

Huh?

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 5):
Completely different market, and San Diego has a half a million more people than Portland; not to mention that American is a much bigger player in San Diego than it is in Portland.

 checkmark 

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
would also imagine that the demand for ORD-SAN is a whole lot less seasonal than for ORD-PDX. San Diego is lovely in February; Portland not so much.

 checkmark   checkmark 

AA did cut a SAN-ORD frequency this winter (from 5x to 4x daily) so PDX was certainly not the only service-reduction from O'Hare.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Looks like they had a change of heart, because only a month ago it was gone for good.

MAH is right; that's the only reason they would have gone from 2x to zero flights; if it were a planned seasonal cut, one would expect AA to have gone from 2x to 1x daily, then brought the second flight back after the Spring Thaw!

In any case, glad all is well again in the beautiful City of Roses!

bb


User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Good to see they came to their senses.

It's short term penny-pinching and long-term short-sightedness to drop a prosperous and growing city from your network. When you're a network carrier based on a hub and spoke model you need cities like Portland, Oregon even if they're seemingly not all that profitable. Otherwise at some point the ORD hub gets weakend spoke by spoke and becomes a focus city with only the most profitable routes left.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3345 times:



Quoting LambertMan (Reply 8):

The real PDX-fringe route is to St. Louis. I don't think they'd even have a problem making St. Louis, much less Chicago work.

PDX-STL seems to be a hole in AA's west coast route map ex-STL. While no route has a lot of frequency (except LAX), they do fly to SFO, SEA, SAN, and SNA (and have same-plane service to SJC through SNA and ORD). Perhaps the difficulty is that Seattle is sufficiently larger than Portland to compensate for the seasonal nature of the route.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3241 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
Perhaps the difficulty is that Seattle is sufficiently larger than Portland to compensate for the seasonal nature of the route.

That and doesn't boeing have fairly large ops in STL?



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3230 times:



Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 13):

That and doesn't boeing have fairly large ops in STL?

Also true (in fact, Boeing is the largest employer in the St. Louis area), though I'm not sure how much traffic there is between Boeing Commerical Aircraft and the defense side of things... I don't think BCA does anything in St. Louis.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2810 times:



Quoting LambertMan (Reply 8):
The real PDX-fringe route is to St. Louis. I don't think they'd even have a problem making St. Louis, much less Chicago work.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
PDX-STL seems to be a hole in AA's west coast route map ex-STL. While no route has a lot of frequency (except LAX), they do fly to SFO, SEA, SAN, and SNA...

Sorry but the numbers don't support PDX-STL at all:
City Pair Daily TL O&D pax (both directions) Apparent current schedule (From DOT 1Q07)
STL - SAN 324 (1x daily year-round)
STL - SEA 319 (1x daily year-round + 1x daily seasonal)
STL - SFO 273 (1x daily year-round + 1x daily seasonal)
STL - SNA 205 (1x daily year-round)
...and
STL - PDX 127

There is certainly a bit of connecting traffic still going through Lambert but not enough to make PDX a successful route, at least during the winter/off season.

The numbers for all of these cities are certainly higher in the summer but it appears that maybe AA is not interested in a route (out of STL anyway) that can not support at least 1 year-round flight (except perhaps to/from Florida?)

As I look at the numbers, I still don't see why SAN does not have more than the 1 permanent flight...

bb


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):

There is certainly a bit of connecting traffic still going through Lambert but not enough to make PDX a successful route, at least during the winter/off season.

Nonstop service will increase passenger numbers, though. I'd figure at least 20% stimulation, which with some connections would likely be enough... if AA was committed to PDX. From what quarter are those traffic numbers? Faremeasure says 184, which is obviously much closer to the other cities you've listed.

[Edited 2007-12-16 18:33:02]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2626 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
From what quarter are those traffic numbers?



Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
City Pair Daily TL O&D pax (both directions) Apparent current schedule (From DOT 1Q07)

"From DOT 1Q07" = first quarter of 2007, which is the latest DOT stat's available; 127 pax per day during Jan, Feb and Mar means that, on average, slightly over 60 pax a day flew from PDX to STL and about the same number flew each day from STL to PDX. Sure, a nonstop will generate some additional traffic, and yes, this number is probably for the slowest quarter of the year, but don't forget, a single nonstop in the market, at a particular time of day, will by no means carry ALL those pax flying between the 2 cities either.

In 2006, for Quarter 3 (Jul, Aug, Sep), DOT reported a figure of 248 O&D pax/day between PDX and STL, which equals about 125 pax per day in each direction, which is certainly better but still pretty slim. Without studying all data, I'd guess that would be the high point for the year and apparently AA doesn't think a n/s PDX-STL flight is a viable use of resources.

All I'm saying is, based on the numbers that we, the public, have access to, it makes sense to me. Obviously AA sees these numbers, and others, plus other in-house stat's and uses many other factors when deciding which routes to fly and which ones they won't. As I alluded to in my earlier post, and given SAN-STL's Third Quarter DOT number of 368 pax/day, I still don't know why there isn't at least a second summer-only flight operating but AA isn't doing it and they have their reasons.

That probably more than answers your question, Cubs'! Sorry for the overkill.

bb


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2604 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 17):
As I alluded to in my earlier post, and given SAN-STL's Third Quarter DOT number of 368 pax/day, I still don't know why there isn't at least a second summer-only flight operating but AA isn't doing it and they have their reasons.

That puzzles me too. I'd be curious to know how much STL-SAN traffic WN routes over PHX or LAS (or, heck, SLC or MCI); WN has a pretty loyal following in St. L. That's the only variable I can think of, as it's not like there's nonstop competition on SAN-STL, and AA has shown that it will make seasonal adjustments on STL-west coast runs (off the top of my head, in fact, I think SNA is the only other west coast market that doesn't get additional summer flights from STL). FWIW, I think you're right about PDX-STL; it's just too seasonal (and, apparently, AA is trying to get away from routes which are so seasonal/small that they must be cut part of the year).

Quoting SANFan (Reply 17):
That probably more than answers your question, Cubs'! Sorry for the overkill.

Thanks, no overkill at all. If you had the numbers readily available, I figured it would be less trouble for you than me going and digging them out.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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