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Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?  
User currently offlineCzbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 974 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3662 times:

I've noticed here at YVR that Philippine Airlines' A340s are registered in France. I've never seen this sort of an arrangement before and doing a Wikipedia search I see that Philippine Airlines has both French and American registrations for their aircraft in addition to a few Philippine-registered A/C. (Their A-330s and A-340s are registered as F-O" and the B-747s have N numbers.) Wiki Article: Scroll to "Fleet"

How and why is it that Philippine Airlines flies with foreign registered aircraft? Are the aircraft operated under Philippine law or under French and American laws depending on the A/C?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4892 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3645 times:

This is very common. If aircraft are leased or financed they are often registered in the home countries of the leasing/financing companies who are involved.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

Easier to Reposess the Aircraft , under Philippine law it is almost impossible.. the planes just sit FOREVER there are many exaamples in MNL CRK SFS rotting away.. One GrandAir is still in CRK rusting away ... There was a US marshall show a few years back where the Marshall "arrested" a PAL 747-400 at the gate in LAX untill the bill was paid..

User currently offlineLeamside From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 444 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
Marshall "arrested" a PAL 747-400 at the gate in LAX untill the bill was paid

Let us not forget that PAL sued and a US COURT ORDERED the return of the 747 to PAL.

[Edited 2007-12-17 12:13:07]

User currently offlineCzbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 974 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

Does that mean the aircraft and crew must conform to French and American laws depending on the country of registration? If so, how does that work? Are the air crews French and American?

User currently offlineJasp25 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3314 times:



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 4):
If so, how does that work? Are the air crews French and American?

Philippine Airlines crew personnel are all Filipinos. (Correct me if I am wrong)

-jasp



-peace and chicken grease!
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

Nothing to do with the Crews but the A/C has to be maintained according to the French or US Airworthiness regulations not really a problem as most of the rules are almost the same...and many PAL A&P's hold US FAA Licenses also....Its more a paperwork and Records issue than anything else there are many N and F-0 (French Overseas) operating world wide also EI (Ireland) and P4 (Aruba) are popular...

Im glad PAL got thier plane out of Hoc and back in the air...


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

These are probably short term Leases,so not needed to Register them in the country.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCzbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 974 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3162 times:

Thanks all for the info!

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3071 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
These are probably short term Leases,so not needed to Register them in the country.

No, they are PAL regular aircraft.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3048 times:

However, PR is slowly re-registering certain aircraft with foreign registrations and is giving them Filipino registrations (RP-C****).

User currently offlineJasp25 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3021 times:



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
However, PR is slowly re-registering certain aircraft with foreign registrations and is giving them Filipino registrations (RP-C****).

You're probably talking about certain units that were purchased by PR.

-jasp



-peace and chicken grease!
User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

sounds a bit like Alitalia, their MDs and some A320s are Italian registered, but some A320s, 767s, 777s and MD11Fs are Irish registered - EI- instead of I-


AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3000 times:



Quoting Jasp25 (Reply 11):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
However, PR is slowly re-registering certain aircraft with foreign registrations and is giving them Filipino registrations (RP-C****).

You're probably talking about certain units that were purchased by PR.

-jasp

None of the A330/340 or B747 have been re-registered.

A320 series have been delivered with RP-C regos, the ex-CP 744 likewise. Only re-registered aircraft might have been the B737s (1 left) from EI to RP-C, though not sure about that.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

One of the problem of registering certain aircraft in a country such as the Philippines is certification of the aircraft.

Basically the Philippine version of the FAA has to hire or train enough expertise locally to be able to inspect and verify the aircraft meet standards. For many types it's just a whole lot cheaper to have the registration and certification remain in another country.

While a country can just register any aircraft without having that expertise, it can run into problems with their certification being not recognized in other countries. In some cases, national pride requires local registration - and they have to establish complex agreements to have a nation with expertise supervise and run their aircraft certification programs. Australia does this for several small nations in Oceania - at a healthy profit I'm sure.

No disrespect to the Philippines intended or implied. You just have to have a certain number of aircraft to justify the expense.

I don't remember the specific model - but there is one of the Boeing B737 series which cannot be registered in Canada I've been told. That is why the only Canada based model of that aircraft is registered in Aruba. (Though that story always seemed a bit fishy to me)


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2937 times:



Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
This is very common. If aircraft are leased or financed they are often registered in the home countries of the leasing/financing companies who are involved.

Another example is Aeroflot. All their current Boeing and Airbus aircraft are registered in Bermuda to avoid high Russian taxes on foreign-built aircraft imported to Russia. If memory correct, their A310s (no longer in service) were registered in France.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2937 times:



Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 13):
None of the A330/340 or B747 have been re-registered.

While the A330/A340s are likely on lease, this 744 originally ordered by PR but delivered instead to Canadian - finally got its Philippine registration.....

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And so with this old 742.....

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