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LH Confirms Flights To LAD  
User currently offlineMaxfly From Austria, joined Oct 2003, 100 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

as per LH website: LH will start serving Luanda starting April 1, 2008 with one weekly 3-class A343
Tue: LH 560, dep FRA 8.30pm, arr LAD 03.55am (+1) 343
Wed LH 561, dep. LAD 8.40pm, arr. FRA 06.05am (+1) 343

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4315 times:

Not really surprising. Is a layover of 14-15h enough for a crew rest?


Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4287 times:



Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 1):
Not really surprising. Is a layover of 14-15h enough for a crew rest?

It is for us. That or it's a week long layover. Not very cost effective.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4253 times:



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 2):
It is for us. That or it's a week long layover. Not very cost effective.

SU for example had something like a 24h layover in LAD.

Quite tough to fly 10-11h from FRA to LAD, layover of 14-15h (rest time around 12h) and again a 10-11h trip from LAD to FRA.

Most if not all charter planes from Europe to long haul destinations (eg Maldives) let their crew stay 7 days at the destination. Maybe another fact could also be the destination it self, not much fun staying 7 days in Luanda I assume.



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4142 times:



Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 3):
Quite tough to fly 10-11h from FRA to LAD

I don't think that it's 10-11h on this leg.It should be around 9h I think. Still a long way to go for such a short layover.


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

You are also getting crew rest on the flights to/from LAD.

Short layover = productive trip

Long layover = no-so productive



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

I'm sure the fact that it is a once-a-week trip has to do with a very restrictive bilateral agreement, as it seems Angola has with every country.

The plane is scheduled to be on the ground for 16 hours and 45 minutes. How long of a crew rest will that provide?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3913 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
How long of a crew rest will that provide?

Crew rest can be defined as from time after duty day ends from the arrival at the destination to when the crew is required to be at the aircraft the next day.

For example: (if it were CO) :30 minutes after plane blocks in crew rest starts (0425) to 1740 (time for crew to be at aircraft). Crew rest (which includes travel time, checking into hotel, checking out of hotel, travel to airport - sad but the reality of it) is 15:15.

So 15:15 would be the crew rest (based on if it were CO, which I know it is not).

We have short day layovers in GRU and EZE of 12-13 hours (after a 9-10 hour flight). Other airlines do the same.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineEarlyNFF From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3617 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
How long of a crew rest will that provide?

long enough for LH crews.

I need not look for the exact terms, but schedule times are a clear indication that the same crew will fly back.

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 4):
I don't think that it's 10-11h on this leg.It should be around 9h I think.

Hirnie, make use of your nick! Flight time is not duty time!  Wink


User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3568 times:



Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 8):
Hirnie, make use of your nick! Flight time is not duty time!

I know. But Swissgabe wrote that it would be quite tough to FLY 10-11h etc. So I think he meant flight time. If the flihgt is about 2h shorter than he mentioned, than the on duty time will be 2h shorter as well. But it's still a tough trip if the crew has a layover of only about half a day in LAD.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3559 times:



Quoting Maxfly (Thread starter):
Tue: LH 560, dep FRA 8.30pm, arr LAD 03.55am (+1) 343
Wed LH 561, dep. LAD 8.40pm, arr. FRA 06.05am (+1) 343

why didnt they scheduled the flight a little bit later?
leaving FRA at 10:30pm arriving in LAD at 5:55am

and

leaving LAD at 10:40pm arriving in FRA at 08:05am

cheers



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRB211TriStar From United States of America, joined May 2007, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

If for some reason the flight into LAD is delayed by an amount which breaks the threshold of the crew rest period, does that mean the outbound is automatically delayed?

User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2761 times:



Quoting RB211TriStar (Reply 11):
If for some reason the flight into LAD is delayed by an amount which breaks the threshold of the crew rest period, does that mean the outbound is automatically delayed?

Theoretically yes, because the airline can get large fines if the cre rest times aren't stricktly respected.


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2732 times:

Also if they fly a 3-man crew (with a Senior F/O), the crew rest times will be a lot less restrictive. That might be a key to it all as well.

JAR OPS I think (if I remember correctly, long time since I last read that) says 12 hours of rest time for a duty time of up to 10 hours. Or was it the other way around? Something like that.



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2724 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

The German law only needs 10 hour of crew rest! The companies have a little more crew rest, but usually 12 hours is sufficient, in some cases 14 hours... So this trip can be possible with a pretty short layover down there...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2637 times:



Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 13):
Also if they fly a 3-man crew (with a Senior F/O), the crew rest times will be a lot less restrictive. That might be a key to it all as well.

I think they will be doing a 3 man crew? Always thought that anything over 8 hours needs 3 cockpit crew, am i right?



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2608 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 15):
ways thought that anything over 8 hours needs 3 cockpit crew, am i right?

Its not about the flight time, its about the great circle distance and it is different for 744 and 343 because of the different speeds! I dont know the exact values. Of course there are some exceptions as well! Some flights which leave in the middle of the night somewhere, they sometimes get a 3rd man (or women) as cockpit crew...
I am talking about LH here! some other airlines may have different rules...

WILCO737 (MD11F)


[Edited 2007-12-18 06:43:50]


It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineEarlyNFF From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1712 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 16):
I dont know the exact values.

at LH, the kicker for 3rd (wo)man is 4200NM for B744. Special rules apply sometimes.


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