Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
The 747-8I Prototype  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 14506 times:

Who will receive the prototype of the 747-8I after the test programm is finished ? Will it be a business jet or will it go to LH ?
Also some interesting information regarding the 747-8I with LH. Internally it is refered to as the 747-830I and it will receive the former registrations of the 747-200s formerly in use with LH.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10635 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 14484 times:



Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
the former registrations of the 747-200s formerly in use with LH.

It will receive the registrations of the first 747-100 and 200 to be exact, starting with D-ABYA, D-ABYC and so on, excluding D-ABYB, the registration of the first 747 ever lost in an accident.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 14252 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 1):
It will receive the registrations of the first 747-100 and 200 to be exact, starting with D-ABYA, D-ABYC and so on, excluding D-ABYB, the registration of the first 747 ever lost in an accident.

Thanks that is nice to know !!!



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineSCAT15F From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14048 times:

Just a side note:

Aviation Week says Boeing is having to increase the MTOW of the 747-8F and -8I by 5000 lb to 975,000 lb because greater than anticipated loads on the outboard sections of the redesigned wings necessitate reinforcement. They also say that further efficiency gains with the wing cancel out the increased weight, and that 975K is the limit for the landing gear setup.
The GEnx-2b67 is supposed to begin testing next month as well.


User currently onlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13836 times:

Well lets see if the damn thing will fly... Still a very slow start for the 748..


Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10635 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13672 times:



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 4):
Well lets see if the damn thing will fly... Still a very slow start for the 748..

I remember that the start of the 773ER wasnt much better.


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13603 times:



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 4):
Well lets see if the damn thing will fly... Still a very slow start for the 748..

If Boeing and airlines like LH are comfortable with the plane and anticipating orders to come in the years following introduction, why do all a.netters expect the 748 to build up huge orders before launch.....? I think the huge orders for the 787 and 350 are deeply influencing a lot of a.netters who keep predicting gloom for the 748.....and a "slow start" doesn't necessarily mean a thing, if the plane subsequently does well over the period when it is in production.....


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13564 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 5):
I remember that the start of the 773ER wasnt much better.

Really I don´t really remember who was the first customer and how long did take for the second customer to come on board. I wish Boeing and the 747-8I all the best together with the A380 it will be the only new quad in a world of boring twin jets.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13528 times:



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 6):
If Boeing and airlines like LH are comfortable with the plane and anticipating orders to come in the years following introduction, why do all a.netters expect the 748 to build up huge orders before launch.....? I think the huge orders for the 787 and 350 are deeply influencing a lot of a.netters who keep predicting gloom for the 748.....and a "slow start" doesn't necessarily mean a thing, if the plane subsequently does well over the period when it is in production.....

If I recall correctly, the 737 also got off to a very slow start. An order from LH saved that plane. Now look where it is...best selling airliner of all time....



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13489 times:



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 6):
why do all a.netters expect the 748 to build up huge orders before launch.....?

Because it is the internet people expect news every 5 minutes besides as you said the tremendous number of orders for the 787 and A350 have spoiled people. If we think back on the days of the Dc 10 and L1011 orders were much slower and in lower numbers.
But back to the topic, does nobody has a clue who will get the first 747-8I after the test program is finished ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5402 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13429 times:

The scale at which the 787 and 350 are selling is throwing perception totally out of whack. Selling 4 or so billion dollars worth of anything ain't exactly chump change...and that just covers the 20 sold to LH.

That said...the waiting does suck, though...



What the...?
User currently onlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2735 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13376 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
But back to the topic, does nobody has a clue who will get the first 747-8I after the test program is finished ?

Yes. . .  Wink

It has been sold to a VIP customer with an already substantial VIP fleet.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineFWI747 From France, joined Jul 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13377 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
But back to the topic, does nobody has a clue who will get the first 747-8I after the test program is finished ?

Probably LH, It seems to me very doubtful that the first airplane would go to a VIP customer but i'm not in B's pocket...
Do you think that LH is reluctant to be the launch customer for an "already proven" (from a general performances standpoint) airplane ?


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13327 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 12):
Yes. . . Wink

It has been sold to a VIP customer with an already substantial VIP fleet.

Thanks !!

Quoting FWI747 (Reply 13):
Do you think that LH is reluctant to be the launch customer for an "already proven" (from a general performances standpoint) airplane ?

No I don´t think that. I was just wondering if LH is the only customer so far if they build for the Intercontinental if the aircraft will be painted in LH colors when it rolls out or at least have the tail painted in LH colors.
Just imagine the 747-8I in Boeing dreamliner colors with the LH logo, would be a hell of an aircraft.

[Edited 2007-12-20 09:50:22]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineFWI747 From France, joined Jul 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13328 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 12):
Yes. . .  

It has been sold to a VIP customer with an already substantial VIP fleet.

Any clue on it's location ...


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13311 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 5):
I remember that the start of the 773ER wasnt much better.

But the 773ER had the A346 as its competitor.

The B748i has the A380, a more advanced aircraft in almost every way.
Another thing is that the A380 is proving itself better than Airbus anticipated, with apparently few, if any, major problems after EIS.
The A346 experience was quite opposite.

I'm probably wrong, but I dont see a very bright future for the B748i.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13287 times:



Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Internally it is refered to as the 747-830I

Not surprising. After all, the two zeros that used to follow the model number were just fillers that were dropped starting with the 787-8. So it's not unexpected that LH refers to their Intercontinentals as 747-830Is.

Quoting NA (Reply 1):
It will receive the registrations of the first 747-100 and 200 to be exact, starting with D-ABYA, D-ABYC and so on, excluding D-ABYB, the registration of the first 747 ever lost in an accident.

Could they, instead of D-ABYB, use D-ABZB? BTW, good to know that by using registrations of the 747 Classics they're going a bit back to the roots with the new 747-8I.


User currently offlineFWI747 From France, joined Jul 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13218 times:



Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 3):
Just a side note:

Aviation Week says Boeing is having to increase the MTOW of the 747-8F and -8I by 5000 lb to 975,000 lb because greater than anticipated loads on the outboard sections of the redesigned wings necessitate reinforcement. They also say that further efficiency gains with the wing cancel out the increased weight, and that 975K is the limit for the landing gear setup.

Can you post a link ? If no, does the article mention any improvement in range ? Is a 5000lb not too much for an aerodynamic reinforcement, I've read earlier that the B748i would make use of FBW spoiler in order to alleviate aerodynamic loads. Do you know if they've dropped this feature ?
What range gain would represent 5000lb ? About 200Nm ?


User currently onlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2735 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13218 times:



Quoting FWI747 (Reply 15):
Any clue on it's location ...

Someplace hot. . .  Wink

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
Just imagine the 747-8I in Boeing dreamliner colors with the LH logo, would be a hell of an aircraft.

In all liklihood, it will receive the full Boeing paint scheme, ala the 787.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5627 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13152 times:



Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Also some interesting information regarding the 747-8I with LH. Internally it is refered to as the 747-830I and it will receive the former registrations of the 747-200s formerly in use with LH.

Why so? Has Germany run out of registrations already? Some people might be spooked knowing they were flying on a plane carrying the identity of one which had crashed.

Strange.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13100 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 21):
Some people might be spooked knowing they were flying on a plane carrying the identity of one which had crashed.

The crashed aircraft will be excluded:

Quoting NA (Reply 1):
It will receive the registrations of the first 747-100 and 200 to be exact, starting with D-ABYA, D-ABYC and so on, excluding D-ABYB, the registration of the first 747 ever lost in an accident.




It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5627 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13045 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
excluding D-ABYB, the registration of the first 747 ever lost in an accident.

 eyepopping  Sorry, I misread "exclucing" for "including". But why re-hash old registrations, or is Germany running out of combinations?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13014 times:

I would assume that in a program like the 748I, there will only be 2 test frames much as it was for the 77L. The 748F will already be certifying the engines and wing changes and all that jazz, the 748I program will certify the pax configuration changes. The primary test bird will be full of testing crap, the second bird most likely equipped with an LH cabin for worthiness and route proving purposes. The second bird would also likely be the first "production" bird in the series, with the 2 test freighters and the first pax test plane being prototype birds.

The second bird would be deliverable much sooner than the first and be much more similar to all future 748Is produced, with the first taking 6-9 months to refit into an LH configuration. Might as well just refit it into a VIP config, which takes 1-2 years anyway, and not make LH wait for it.

At least that's how I see it.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
Not surprising. After all, the two zeros that used to follow the model number were just fillers that were dropped starting with the 787-8. So it's not unexpected that LH refers to their Intercontinentals as 747-830Is.

This was my point a long time ago. There was never such thing as an actual 747-400 in reality. Any particular plane build was always a 747-4XX where XX was a two character code referring to customer specifications. There is not one 747-400 in existence. So removing the zeros makes as much sense as keeping them. Either way, you are describing a model series, not an actual specific plane.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12846 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 21):
Has Germany run out of registrations already?

No, but you have to remember that in Germany, most aircraft get a registration prefix based on their weight (e.g. D-A*** for most airliners). Only few aircraft like helicopters get a type based registration prefix (e.g. D-H*** for helos). LH additionally registers their aircraft according to the manufacturer and thus they only have two other digits left to fill (e.g. D-AB** for Boeing, D-AI** for Airbus).

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
This was my point a long time ago. There was never such thing as an actual 747-400 in reality. Any particular plane build was always a 747-4XX where XX was a two character code referring to customer specifications. There is not one 747-400 in existence. So removing the zeros makes as much sense as keeping them. Either way, you are describing a model series, not an actual specific plane.

Let's also not forget that when the 707 entered service and the customer codes were introduced, there were no 00 fillers. The models were designated 707-120 or 707-320, and the 20 was later replaced by the customer code as well.

[Edited 2007-12-20 11:07:18]

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12769 times:

I personally like saying "dash eight" better than "dash eight hundred" anyway. Much cleaner, rolls off the tongue.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Braybuddy : Should have guessed. German logic of course!
26 Ikramerica : I would assume number 1 will receive it. Will number 2 be painted in LH colors from the start? Or will it be white with an LH tail? Or will it be lik
27 KC135TopBoom : Why would you think the A-380 is more advanced than the B-747-8i? I would think they are of the same generation. Registrations for airplanes get recy
28 Thegeek : There is one thing that maybe, possibly can save it: fuel burn. Boeing claim a 10% reduction in fuel burn per seat mile over the A380. If they approa
29 JoeCanuck : Actually, there's probably only one thing that would kill it; if LH decides they don't want it. Otherwise, as long as the freighter is being built, (
30 Ikramerica : That seems highly unlikely. This is going to be the second model of the 747-8 to test, as the F will be the first, and both are derivative models fro
31 Ravel : Is 747-830I the plane's official model number? Boeing uses customer codes in the end of the model number (and Airbus fills the space with engine and
32 Thegeek : That may be, but I wouldn't call selling 25 frames a successful product. I'm really not sure why LH want the 748i AND the A380 in such small numbers.
33 Kaitak744 : For the 1,000th time: The 747-8i seats approximately 100 less people than the A380, so it is for different markets. In the case of LH, they have no 7
34 Stitch : LH's 747-8Is will also carry significantly more revenue cargo then their A380-800's thanks to having up to nine additional LD3 positions to devote to
35 Tdscanuck : It's not a prototype. LN1 will be a full production certified bird at the time of delivery. Boeing hasn't built a prototype since the 767. How do you
36 Columba : Small numbers ? LH is the fourth largest A380 customer after EK, QF and SQ. 20 firm orders for the 747-8I is more than many airlines have 747-400s no
37 Thegeek : Yes, but these numbers are well below the point at which fleet commonality becomes nothing to be worried about. This logic applies to QF too, I guess
38 Columba : LH said once that they need 15 aircraft to operate a fleet in a cost effective way. So I don´t see that 15 A380s + options and 20 747 are bel
39 SKAirbus : Maybe the 748 will be a success eventually.. especially for airlines that don't dare touch airbus aircraft but need a larger fleet BUT Boeing should t
40 Columba : Well the 737NG managed to become a success. The 747-8I has little to do with the 747-100 except for the shape of the fuselage, wings,engines, avionic
41 SKAirbus : Well the 737NG was launched over 10 years ago and Boeing are now going to scrap the old design and start from scratch... Seeing as the 747 is about t
42 Columba : The 737NG will be build for another 10 years. The 737 replacement will not roll out before 2015 and with test flights etc..the first new aircraft wil
43 Dennys : sorry guys , Is the 747-800 prototype really existing , i doubt , as i got too many informations from all of you ; thks rgds dennys
44 Gr8Circle : Why should a design be shelved just because of passage of time...? If it still meets the requirements, Boeing will use it, rather than spending billi
45 EI321 : But the 737 had an enormous market, was an all new design, was arguably the best aircraft in its market, had great potential for further development,
46 JoeCanuck : LH seems to think the 748 and 380 are complementary, not competitive. After all, it's the customers decision to make, not ours. Maybe LH will be the
47 PC12Fan : I wouldn't exactly call 177 orders a runaway hit either. The A380 doesn't have a direct competitor, nor does the 748i. They are merely being marketed
48 Columba : Agreed
49 JayinKitsap : There are 28 airlines that have purchased less than 10 744's: This includes Virgin, South African, KLM, Air China, ANZ, Air France, etc. There are on
50 Joost : Probably LH does not really want the very first aircraft. Usually, the first (test) aircraft of a type differs quite a lot from the later production
51 SCAT15F : It's in the November 26 edition of AviationWeek & Space Technology on page 44. -No mention of range increase -"Teal says the increase is driven by an
52 SKAirbus : Well i think there will be an A380 boom at some point in the near future... Oil prices are set to peak in around 2011 (although they will probably kee
53 NorthstarBoy : I have to assume LH was given right of first refusal for frame number one, given their status as the launch customer, and their 50 year relationship w
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Heavyweight Bout For BA. The A380 Or The 747-8i posted Mon Jun 11 2007 20:45:22 by WINGS
Qantas & The 747-8i posted Wed Jan 31 2007 06:42:53 by Trentin
Pictures: First Look Inside The 747-8I posted Thu Jan 18 2007 19:11:23 by Leelaw
25 Potential Customers For The 747-8I posted Mon Jul 17 2006 19:33:31 by FCKC
Did Boeing Fix A Date For The First 747-8i? posted Wed Apr 25 2007 16:11:27 by CARST
LH 747-8I As Long As The 747-8F? posted Wed Dec 13 2006 19:26:32 by MD 11
Airbus N.A. Chairman: "747-8i is the Ford Edsel" posted Thu Dec 7 2006 09:07:32 by Curmudgeon
Qantas, Airbus A380 Delays & The Boeing 747-8i posted Wed Aug 9 2006 21:09:47 by Keesje
What's Going To Happen To The 747 Prototype? posted Sun Jun 27 2004 19:27:28 by FRAspotter
Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread. posted Mon Dec 10 2007 11:58:41 by WINGS