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Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?  
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Weight aside, would plexiglass doors between cabins (a la Virgin America's plexiglass bulkhead between F and Y) that could be stowed for takeoff and landing still be permissible under TSA/FAA regulations for direct view access? Just a thought outside the box and away from the mesh curtains...

Thanks,

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

edit: to reiterate, yet again, weight not being an issue. The issue is: will it comply with FAA regulations?

[Edited 2007-12-20 10:13:47]

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2941 times:



Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):

I dont think any airline would go for this because plexiglass weighs more than mesh curtains do. Everything nowadays has to do with saving fuel as much as possible.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

So you would like the idea of flying behind a wall that isn't a bulkhead?! So you'd like to block off the airplane to insult everyone in coach like they have SARS?

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

I think this idea has some merit, but I don't think you'll see it. Really only of use in limited places. You might see it on a carrier like EK in the future, but that's just a guess.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 2):
So you'd like to block off the airplane to insult everyone in coach like they have SARS?

I guess all those people on the TGV and ICE trains are insulted on the mixed 1st/2nd class pullmans with plexiglass divider doors?

Insecurities about your own self worth are nobody's problem but your own...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 858 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

That'd be extremely hazardous in the event of a fire. At least with a mesh curtain you have a *chance* of seeing it through smoke or at least can break through it. It'd be hard to break down plexiglass in an emergency. Not to mention, it probably doesn't meet any fire resistant/retardant requirements.


That's why we're here.
User currently offlineJustPlaneNutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Thinking of segregating the kiddies, are we?

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2840 times:



Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 4):
It'd be hard to break down plexiglass in an emergency. Not to mention, it probably doesn't meet any fire resistant/retardant requirements.

We are talking about a door that slides out of the way during T/O, landing and any emergency. The door would lock open, then be manually controlled during flight. If it were to become inop, it would be locked open during flight as well.

VX and others already have plexiglass dividers between F and Y seats, but not a door that slide across the aisle. That is what is proposed here. Further, there is no need it be full floor to ceiling and likely wouldn't. It would like only be the height of the bottom of the bins, leaving plenty of air space above for ventilation and to hear crew instructions and such.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePmk From United States of America, joined May 1999, 664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

Well I look at it this way, why add another maintenance item?

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Words to live by.

PMK


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2766 times:



Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):
The issue is: will it comply with FAA regulations?

I beleive the FARs prohibit doors in passenger cabins without jumping through hoops... When I get home from work...eh, never mind...

For example, 14 CFR 23.813 ("Emergency Exit Access") (b)(3) through (b)(5):
(3) If it is necessary to pass through a passageway between passenger compartments to reach a required emergency exit from any seat in the passenger cabin, the passageway must be unobstructed; however, curtains may be used if they allow free entry through the passageway.

(4) No door may be installed in any partition between passenger compartments unless that door has a means to latch it in the open position. The latching means must be able to withstand the loads imposed upon it by the door when the door is subjected to the inertia loads resulting from the ultimate static load factors prescribed in §23.561(b)(2).

(5) If it is necessary to pass through a doorway separating the passenger cabin from other areas to reach a required emergency exit from any passenger seat, the door must have a means to latch it in the open position. The latching means must be able to withstand the loads imposed upon it by the door when the door is subjected to the inertia loads resulting from the ultimate static load factors prescribed in §23.561(b)(2).

So...my read is that the a door could be used if the latch to hold it open can survive crash loads...which would in turn increase weight and maintenance... and you'd likely have to find somewhere to store the door during take off and landing because unless you were really clever with your galley/lav/door coordination, the door would probably block access to one or more seats in the open position, meaning it wouldn't fly (excuse the pun) from a safety perspective. Remember, for example, that if a tray table is stuck in the down position that seat (and possibly that row if it's an asile seat) can't be sold because the tray table impeads evacuation)

My thoughts...

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

Would definately look nicer, but i don't think they would really weigh enough to really be a problem

User currently offlineJasondn From South Africa, joined Nov 2007, 207 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2721 times:



Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):
would plexiglass doors between cabins

The only real solution I could think of, would be a roller door from the roof to the ground. The problem with a regular door is obviously trying to get it to work within the galley and the lav. A sliding door could also work, but might restrict the recline of the seats in the forward part of the cabin.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2721 times:



Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 4):
That'd be extremely hazardous in the event of a fire. At least with a mesh curtain you have a *chance* of seeing it through smoke or at least can break through it.

I'm getting the visual of a bird flying into a picture window or a glass sliding door.

I don't think that a plexiglass cabin "curtain" divider would fly. It works fine in regards to bulkhead walls, but in such an application as suggested by the thread starter really isn't practical. Besides the obvious weight issue, where the heck (or how the heck) are they going to stow it when not in use? I don't think having it on a track like a window would work because some a/c really don't have the "attic" that other planes have above the cabin. And hinging it and swinging it into position probably would be practical.

The mesh curtain that is being used by some airlines (Not all airlines use them, preferring to not have any sort of curtain divider at all. In addition, not all a/c in an airlines' fleet has had them installed.). is the best solution to having some sort of "wall" between cabins.

Hey, it could be worse, it could be a beaded curtain......  duck 


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

it will clearly comply with regulations as cited by Lincoln...

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):
No door may be installed in any partition between passenger compartments unless that door has a means to latch it in the open position.

seems rather simple. no hoops to jump through. just the same kind of latches used on storage doors, lav doors, etc. or possibly a kick stop that pops up and prevents the door from moving.

Quoting Jasondn (Reply 10):
The only real solution I could think of, would be a roller door from the roof to the ground.

actually, I would imagine something with full extension glides and no track on the floor. the real issue is that if it were to be motorized like on a train, that is a lot of weight and complexity. but a manual door with a handle would be rather simple. latching it open would also be very simple.

it's the weight that's the issue, but we aren't supposed to consider that as per the OP request...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 858 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2618 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 11):
Hey, it could be worse, it could be a beaded curtain...... duck

As Pam Ann said "We don't do doors."  Smile



That's why we're here.
User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2571 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
I guess all those people on the TGV and ICE trains are insulted on the mixed 1st/2nd class pullmans with plexiglass divider doors?

That is nothing like the US airline industry and I'm sure there is an FAA regulation that outlines why this has not been done.


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